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USA...why so nagative against US?

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posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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Frequently I read on this board about how awful the united states is...how we should let everyone over-run our borders, that we dont give enough, and on and on...

But I just had a thought... How many OTHER countries are there that people are, begging, borrowing and stealing to get into at all costs? I am only aware of America being the one that people stand in line to become (legally or illegally) citizens.

We are imperfect, that is for sure. but we are a young country nd we have proven ourselves to be a good, compassionate people. If the USa was so awful why do so many run to US?

Just my opinion




posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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Because people are running toward and ideal, an idea that they have been told that America is the land of the free, the land of prosperity, the land of opportunity. And to some extent that is still true. If you live in a country that running water is scarce, America looks pretty damn good. Having not lived in other countries, I cannot comment on the current status of immigration, but I do recall France banning some muslim burka (sp?). This to me says that their has been quite a bit of middle eastern immigration taking place in France.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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Judging from i see around my own area...there seems to be a lot of middle eastern immigration here ...and I hear it's in Canada too...says a lot about their own countries.

america has an ideal it is trying to live up to...and as long as we maintain the dream, we may get there...we have a way to go...but it is an ideal not found elsewhere



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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As for being a young country, history points out that on average an established civilization will only last around 250 years. So we are not that young of a country. We are getting close to the climax.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by wiseone11

But I just had a thought... How many OTHER countries are there that people are, begging, borrowing and stealing to get into at all costs? I am only aware of America being the one that people stand in line to become (legally or illegally) citizens.


Actually, every developed country. All of Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, and Singapore are trying to deal with thorny immigration issues. There are tens of thousands of illegal immigrants in Dubai alone. So its not only the USA.

In fact, just about everywhere where there is a border and life is better on one side than the other, people are trying (and dying) to get across. Mexico has its own immigration issues...with its Southern neighbor Guatamala.



We are imperfect, that is for sure. but we are a young country nd we have proven ourselves to be a good, compassionate people. If the USa was so awful why do so many run to US?


The US is a great country, I agree 100%. And part of that greatness is in a long and lively tradition of self-examination and self-criticism.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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United states is a great place to live in for the most part. Its the government I dont like. Our quality of living is great, but its paid for with fraud(think fed reserve) and blood. The only reason our country is wealthy, is because no one can make us pay off our trillions of dollars in debt we owe, just because we spend more on military than all other countries combined(literally, funny cycle eh). Thus, the US is no better than a bully at school who steals all the other kids lunch money. Although its kinda nice for us people who are born here, its really not fair for everyone else, it's pretty much completely corrupt imo.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by wiseone11
 

I don't have this obsession with hating any country.
However, I'd say since WW 2 (and its nuclear bombs) the US interfered with other countries via the CIA, from United Fruit to assassinations. It has dropped tons and tons of bombs, Agent Orange, Napalm and other chemicals on often neutral peasant populations, and never bothered to clean up its mess. It's seen as propping up dictators, manipulating them into power, and then causing untold suffering to remove and replace them.
As a postcolonial off-shoot of Britain it's one of the oldest independant colonies, and not new at all. It is perceived as racist historically, having built up its riches from black slaves, Native American genocide and massive land thefts from Mexico. Following that, it used cheap immigrant labour, but also forced immigrants to remain under-classes with various social exclusions for generations.
It's population is largely seen as ignorant, marketable automatons, who have no sense of history, especially not of what its own secret service and armies have done to South and Latin America. It's viewed as the biggest polluting threat, with a culture of unbridled greed and unquentionable materialism.
Furthermore, it's imagined to harbor vast quantities of brainwashed Christian fundamentalists, and people are never sure whether its intentions are rational, or inspired by men who will create the apocalypse if it doesn't come naturally.
Then there's the trashy culture and Springer stereotype.
Countries that grow drugs to meet the eager demands of its hedonistic culture have their food crops destroyed by pesticide planes. I mean imagine another country sprayed poison over California! Yeah, a war on drugs is a good idea, just like
Prohibition - duh!
It's just seen as a bully that created the poverty in its own backyard - which it now calls an "immigrant problem".
Meanwhile, its own soldiers who turned pacifist, and speak sense are refugees in Canada and other places.
Let's just say there are millions of families who lost limbs, babies, children, fathers, mothers and homes because of the USA.
Just a perspective of an outsider, since you asked, although that doesn't really begin to explain it.
A US army base in Europe, with jets taking off at all hours that are so loud that the windows and furniture rattle is enough to peeve the locals off.
Mostly you're never sure whether a bomb will hit you because you're dining at a US franchise, or whether a US jet will one day find a reason to drop a bomb on yourself. And while you're being bombed the media is full of GIs posing with naked, frightened civilians, like some Safari trophy- hunt, while the Christian US masses hold up posters for the world to see reading: "Peace=War"!





[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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As far as Constitutions and the system of government, we aren't really that new. Sure, we are new in name, but really name only. In fact, France is technically a younger a country than us when it comes to our respective Constitutions and governance.

Also, while the US may be one of the easiest countries to migrate to, other countries do have a lot of people wanting to migrate to them.

With that being said, I am completely against illegal immigration and open borders. However, I think most immigrants are looking for a better way of life for themselves and their families. America is such a place that can provide a better life.

They are complaining only as a means to accomplish their goals. These immigrants sure don't seem to have a problem with their own country's immigration laws or border security.

Just my 2 cents.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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The Great american dream !

trouble is you can not fart in the street without fear of being arrested so don't tell me about being free.

Time you stood up and took your govement back because all your politicans hear is the russel of money from the bankers.

Are you afraid to audit the fed or something and why are you letting Bp treat you like dirt.

Sorry guys but collectivly americans have lost their backbones and the sad thing is us brits are little better.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by LieBuster
 


Can I ask what you are doing to prove you have a "backbone?" I fail to see a solid solution to the mess we are in. I suppose I could buy a small island and pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks, but when it comes to bettering or changing the system, no one has a clue how to do it.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by ninthaxis
 


It is my belief that nothing can be done. It is already too late. Unless a miracle occurs and a mass awakening happens, there is nothing we could possibly do. Really, all we can do is prepare for a total clamp down and economic collapse that will precede the clamp down. Other than that, there is not much we can do, save for trying to educate as many of our fellow Americans as we possibly can. Not that it will help our situation, rather it will just be helping your neighbors a wee bit.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Well, I am not much for giving up, only admitting that as of this moment on this day I have no solution. One exists. It is highly probable that many exist. I have not devoted the time or energy to discover them.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by wiseone11
 




why so nagative against US?


Because we like to invade countries and kill people.



If the USa was so awful why do so many run to US?


Because it's a nice place to live.

Do you see how these statements in no way contradict each other?



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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We have had a hard fought, unsettled past. I imagine the same feelings prevailed during the revolutionary war, the civil war, the dust bowl, the great depression, WWi and WWII, viet Nam, and other stages of our development...but we have always made it through a little smarter and stronger. I believe we will make it through this time...and then something else will pop up and we will go through it again...

Our big benefit is that we do question ourselves and our leaders and we are free to do so...that is our responsibility...to continue to question and demand accountability of our leaders.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by wiseone11
Frequently I read on this board about how awful the united states is...how we should let everyone over-run our borders, that we dont give enough, and on and on...


This is true about mostly anything on ATS.



But I just had a thought... How many OTHER countries are there that people are, begging, borrowing and stealing to get into at all costs? I am only aware of America being the one that people stand in line to become (legally or illegally) citizens.


There are actually hundreds of countries that provide the same benefits and successes as America.



We are imperfect, that is for sure. but we are a young country nd we have proven ourselves to be a good, compassionate people. If the USa was so awful why do so many run to US?

Just my opinion


It is exactly for the reasons above that people are critical of the United States. You tout yourselves as good, compassionate people and yet your government commits some of the largest atrocities known to man in the 21st century.

The following excuse:

" Well it's not us, it's the government that does these things, and the private interests and the corporations."

That excuse is a straw man argument, a deflection of responsibility. You the people are responsible at the most very basic level for EVERY atrocity commited in your country.

You all need to stand up and be the change you want to see. No one man will do it for you, no one government will do it for you.

Only a united people, will make the world a better place. As the USA was and still is, one of the most powerful and influencial countries in the world, you have a responsibility to act the way you'd like to be seen and talked about.

~Keeper



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 

Re-reading my post it comes across as an anti-American rant.
That is only in the context of the OP's query.
Of course things are infinately more complex, and South Africans were once also seen as the polecats of the world.
There are far more things that I enjoy about US culture. Even at its worst moments of anti-Americanism locally, most people see the American people as victims.
Even in SA we have immigrants from other African states dying to get in, so it's similar for now in some respects.
The only really annoying thing is that American English twang you can hear from miles away when they approach ... Yikes!



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


best answer yet, spot on analysis, there is a book called "The CIA's greatest hits" about all the people the US secret services has helped kill. But saying that, on my brief visit a while back I found the people to be awesome, warm and friendly, but to the OP go and read some Chomsky, the US government has killed SOOOO many people its beyond a joke and to halfoldman, great points also especially about South America and the propping up of dicators while engaged in a phony war of terror.

Why do people hate America? Cause they murder so many people, there is even a new word for it 'unpeople' those killed but they just don't seem to count somehow. Notice its not the people, its not even the government, its small elements within the government.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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Why do people hate America? Cause they murder so many people, there is even a new word for it 'unpeople' those killed but they just don't seem to count somehow. Notice its not the people, its not even the government, its small elements within the government
reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy
 


In the discourse we've seen over a decade its almost as if the invaded people want to be killed. By killing them you're "liberating" them, "civilizing" them and "democratizing them". So being killed is a huge favor to them?

That propaganda discourse also appears elsewhere, and a lot of the US soldiers in those countries are far from butchers, but still, the propaganda was done so blatantly, so coldly, so movie-like that it destroyed a lot of global trust and sympathy post-9/11.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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Nothing like a thread like this to bring out the "Blame America First" crowd.

Looks like they are having a field day so far.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 

Is there anything in the Constitution that allows us to replace our government? Do we have to wait for elections? I think our Congress is as freaked out if not more so than many Americans about what has happened to them. Seriously. A few are working in Congress to change it but they need more support, some are just plain corrupt to the core, and the rest are just paralyzed to see what they've wrought on us. Any Congress that blindly passed 3000-5000 page laws written by think tanks and lobbyists with corporate interests in mind deserves to be replaced...and I don't mean in the next election cycle.

Starting over with a new, fresh Congress would be our only hope at this point. And it really wouldn't be that hard to do. We buy the horse doody line that says experience in Congress is sooo critical. It's not. It's harmful because the longer they're there the deeper the lobbyists and corruption sink in their claws.




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