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Israel, what if?
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OK, what I want to do here is see what the membership thinks if Israel is not going to survive. God forbid. That's a topic all on its own.
This isn't 1967 anymore. I believe that the Arab states could eradicated Israel if they want to. And I mean the close ones. Egypt's military alone can match Israel's.
Alright, Israel isn't doing so well in the next war. WHAT HAPPENS?????
I'll reserve my opinion so as to not influence answers.
This isn't 1967 anymore. I believe that the Arab states could eradicated Israel if they want to. And I mean the close ones. Egypt's military alone can match Israel's.
Alright, Israel isn't doing so well in the next war. WHAT HAPPENS?????
I'll reserve my opinion so as to not influence answers.
reply to post by intrepid
Israel will not go quietly into that dark night..
In the scenario you hint at, we are talking a global conflict far worse than WWII, IMO anyway.
Many nations will come to the aid of Israel as many will come to the aid of her enemies.
That is not something I enjoy contemplating...
Semper
Israel will not go quietly into that dark night..
In the scenario you hint at, we are talking a global conflict far worse than WWII, IMO anyway.
Many nations will come to the aid of Israel as many will come to the aid of her enemies.
That is not something I enjoy contemplating...
Semper
reply to post by intrepid
I think Israel will go Nuke before total annihilation, but no; I am more referring to Global Conflict on a conventional scale, with the obvious threat of nukes looming ever in the background..
Semper
I think Israel will go Nuke before total annihilation, but no; I am more referring to Global Conflict on a conventional scale, with the obvious threat of nukes looming ever in the background..
Semper
reply to post by semperfortis
You know what really bugs me about this issue? We're talking about 13 million people here, between the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's got the worlds attention. WHY? We ignore # like this in Africa.
But this is apparently much more important. Why? Zionist control of the MSM. Too bad they didn't divine how the digital age was going to play out.
You know what really bugs me about this issue? We're talking about 13 million people here, between the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's got the worlds attention. WHY? We ignore # like this in Africa.
But this is apparently much more important. Why? Zionist control of the MSM. Too bad they didn't divine how the digital age was going to play out.
The only way Israel will get overthrown is if the U.S. stops supporting it. The zionists Jews know that their lives are constantly in danger because
of international hatred against them, which is why they must cling to power in order to prevent future holocausts. I'm not making this stuff up, this
is what both the Israeli Jews and the anti-Zionists believe, they must maintain good relationships with political powers in order to prevent future
massacres of their people. I just wish their 'good relations' didn't involve Netanyahu mouthing off that 9/11 was good for Israel, kind of makes
people suspicious. But it's okay, nothing will really change. Israel will continue to be a country, the Arab countries will continue to oppose Israel
and call it a terrorist state, the American people will cycle through sympathy for Jews and hatred for Jews, while the U.S. political establishment
will continue to support Israel through AIPAC. The only thing that is surprising is that Obama is pissing off Israel, so maybe Israel will break the
ties with the U.S., but I doubt it.
Originally posted by intrepid
OK, what I want to do here is see what the membership thinks if Israel is not going to survive. God forbid. That's a topic all on its own.
This isn't 1967 anymore. I believe that the Arab states could eradicated Israel if they want to. And I mean the close ones. Egypt's military alone can match Israel's.
Alright, Israel isn't doing so well in the next war. WHAT HAPPENS?????
I'll reserve my opinion so as to not influence answers.
With GOD all things are possible!
reply to post by intrepid
IMO it is not just the Zionist anything..
It is a combination of several issues..
A deep seated and unexplainable hatred for the Jewish people the world over.
The "Underdog" concept I have alluded to before.
A hatred for the United States that extends to those She supports.
Oil and the Middle East.
It is without a doubt a very complex issue and it can not be watered down to one issue at all.
Semper
IMO it is not just the Zionist anything..
It is a combination of several issues..
A deep seated and unexplainable hatred for the Jewish people the world over.
The "Underdog" concept I have alluded to before.
A hatred for the United States that extends to those She supports.
Oil and the Middle East.
It is without a doubt a very complex issue and it can not be watered down to one issue at all.
Semper
no worrying about israel it can take care of itself....about 10 times over without any help....look out damascus/ syria if it hits
reply to post by intrepid
Israel will go the way of apartheid South Africa.
Just like the end of the Cold War in 1990 made the support for apartheid untenable, so Islam and the West will unite in a big, bear hug.
We'll say sorry for Bush, and they'll drop the nuclear schtick, and we'll rescue an Iranian power station held together with super glue.
Israel will become one big Palestinian state, where race no longer matters and everyone has the right of return. CDs and merchnandise will endlessly show hugging and reconciling Israelis and Palestinians until we all want to hurl in happiness. People will offer to rebuild each other's houses and allow refugees to share their homes.
Enormous circles of seperate male and female Jewish/Arab dancers will dance daily in joy in all the major cities of the world.
Red Bull will sponsor massive Arab/Jew dance-ins.
A truth commision of war/occupation/terrorist crimes will be set up under SA Bishop Tutu - and we'll all cry for years.
The new Palestinian state slogan will be: "We're all Semites under the skin"!
Flotillas will help Gaza to blossom into a modern, green suburb.
Except for the really bad parts with landmines and booby trapped ruins, where African immigrants can be housed who are fleeing all their genocides and unresolved conflicts.
Ridiculous? No, some of it is possible!
Israel will go the way of apartheid South Africa.
Just like the end of the Cold War in 1990 made the support for apartheid untenable, so Islam and the West will unite in a big, bear hug.
We'll say sorry for Bush, and they'll drop the nuclear schtick, and we'll rescue an Iranian power station held together with super glue.
Israel will become one big Palestinian state, where race no longer matters and everyone has the right of return. CDs and merchnandise will endlessly show hugging and reconciling Israelis and Palestinians until we all want to hurl in happiness. People will offer to rebuild each other's houses and allow refugees to share their homes.
Enormous circles of seperate male and female Jewish/Arab dancers will dance daily in joy in all the major cities of the world.
Red Bull will sponsor massive Arab/Jew dance-ins.
A truth commision of war/occupation/terrorist crimes will be set up under SA Bishop Tutu - and we'll all cry for years.
The new Palestinian state slogan will be: "We're all Semites under the skin"!
Flotillas will help Gaza to blossom into a modern, green suburb.
Except for the really bad parts with landmines and booby trapped ruins, where African immigrants can be housed who are fleeing all their genocides and unresolved conflicts.
Ridiculous? No, some of it is possible!
I have to agree with semperfortis in that this is a very complex issue.
However, I was going to go into a long comment on a couple of possibilities, but I think the jest of the matter is more along the lines of the Rothchild's will not allow Israel to be annihilated. I would guess they will pick up the phone and pull the strings of the US, Russia, and every other power that owes them money, with is probably every country on this planet, and direct them to keep up the status quo so they can continue funding all sides as usual until they get tired of playing.
So the game will continue as always. Least ways until one of the children really messes up and the other winds up with more than a bloody nose. Then who knows?
Just my opinion.
However, I was going to go into a long comment on a couple of possibilities, but I think the jest of the matter is more along the lines of the Rothchild's will not allow Israel to be annihilated. I would guess they will pick up the phone and pull the strings of the US, Russia, and every other power that owes them money, with is probably every country on this planet, and direct them to keep up the status quo so they can continue funding all sides as usual until they get tired of playing.
So the game will continue as always. Least ways until one of the children really messes up and the other winds up with more than a bloody nose. Then who knows?
Just my opinion.
reply to post by intrepid
Intrepid, there are two things to look at here... Let me go over the first thing...
1) Isreal is attack by a super arab force supported by the Russians. God whips the armies that launch its attack on Israel, without breaking a sweat... (this comes from the bible now my words, and it would seem like this may be true)
2.) The Super Armies of the arab world supported by te Russians launch an all out attack on Isreal. British and American forces are caught off gaurd. Israel begins to fight forits life for the lst time... Arab forces Capture Jersulam and push on Tel Aviv. Israel Launches all of its Nukes on the Middle Eastern cities and oil Fields. Iran and Russia counter and Nuke what isn Occupied. Israel no longer exisits, but the middle east is now a bigger wasteland.
All major middle eastern Cities are destroyed (including Mecca and Medina.) Jerusalm is destroyed. If Fact the Entire Middle East is a huge pile of Glass. The world now see's that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, In fact all relgions our utter garbage and God dies with the middle east.
Folks these are two of the scenarios on the far side of the spectrum, this is not going to last much longer.. So we shall see.
Intrepid, there are two things to look at here... Let me go over the first thing...
1) Isreal is attack by a super arab force supported by the Russians. God whips the armies that launch its attack on Israel, without breaking a sweat... (this comes from the bible now my words, and it would seem like this may be true)
2.) The Super Armies of the arab world supported by te Russians launch an all out attack on Isreal. British and American forces are caught off gaurd. Israel begins to fight forits life for the lst time... Arab forces Capture Jersulam and push on Tel Aviv. Israel Launches all of its Nukes on the Middle Eastern cities and oil Fields. Iran and Russia counter and Nuke what isn Occupied. Israel no longer exisits, but the middle east is now a bigger wasteland.
All major middle eastern Cities are destroyed (including Mecca and Medina.) Jerusalm is destroyed. If Fact the Entire Middle East is a huge pile of Glass. The world now see's that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, In fact all relgions our utter garbage and God dies with the middle east.
Folks these are two of the scenarios on the far side of the spectrum, this is not going to last much longer.. So we shall see.
I was consuming nicely your interesting post until i could not take the bitterness of your twisted half baked statement. It is only me or you do not see anything wrong with saying african can live with subhuman standard.I FIND it very puzzling because it's contradicting your lovely humanly idea of all the foe in ME..will be one day living in peace and prosperity.Its trendy now to defends the palestinian or the jews....but no one will notice if you have a go and humiliate the poor africans .Or you just trowing a big bag of sarcasm full of sh*t to confuse people.Thats how you & friends get your break from bashing religion ...insulting african will do it fine..is it?????
Originally posted
Except for the really bad parts with landmines and booby trapped ruins, where African immigrants can be housed who are fleeing all their genocides and unresolved conflicts.
Ridiculous? No, some of it is possible!......
reply to post by intrepid
Its easy to overlook how small Israel actually is ,though the area looms large in our imaginations .
Israel - U.S.A size comparison ........ (the blue squiggle is Israel)
This geographical reality presents a serious headache for Israel and a tidy target for any would be aggressor . All Israel eggs are in a very small basket indeed.
Besides the obvious vulnerability Israel faces to a nuclear attack , Israel could succumb to a conventional attack given the accuracy and effectiveness of modern weapons .
If the Submarines Israel received from Germany have been adapted to carry nuclear weapons , it would give Israel a second strike capacity, should the capacity to launch missiles from Israel be damaged in any attack .
So to answer you question .....
"Alright, Israel isn't doing so well in the next war. WHAT HAPPENS????? "
I think they would strike a target (primarily military) in the country it was at war with, with a low yield nuclear weapon , the strike would be accompanied with a warning, that the next strike will be a population centre.
Of course i`m just speculating here .
===============================================
It is suggested that Israel has anything up to 300 nuclear weapons ,(apparently in several sizes) how many could be realistically fired at any one time , and what would the turn around time be - before firing again ?
I`m just curious as to how difficult it would be, to have so many covert missile silos .
I hope such an attack never materialises and that they themselves do not visit such destruction upon the peoples of another nation either.
The next nation to use nuclear weapons in conflict should be locked down , shunned internationally, treated like the pariah state that it is .
Israel Size Comparison Maps found Here .
Its easy to overlook how small Israel actually is ,though the area looms large in our imaginations .
Israel - U.S.A size comparison ........ (the blue squiggle is Israel)
This geographical reality presents a serious headache for Israel and a tidy target for any would be aggressor . All Israel eggs are in a very small basket indeed.
Besides the obvious vulnerability Israel faces to a nuclear attack , Israel could succumb to a conventional attack given the accuracy and effectiveness of modern weapons .
If the Submarines Israel received from Germany have been adapted to carry nuclear weapons , it would give Israel a second strike capacity, should the capacity to launch missiles from Israel be damaged in any attack .
So to answer you question .....
"Alright, Israel isn't doing so well in the next war. WHAT HAPPENS????? "
I think they would strike a target (primarily military) in the country it was at war with, with a low yield nuclear weapon , the strike would be accompanied with a warning, that the next strike will be a population centre.
Of course i`m just speculating here .
===============================================
It is suggested that Israel has anything up to 300 nuclear weapons ,(apparently in several sizes) how many could be realistically fired at any one time , and what would the turn around time be - before firing again ?
I`m just curious as to how difficult it would be, to have so many covert missile silos .
I hope such an attack never materialises and that they themselves do not visit such destruction upon the peoples of another nation either.
The next nation to use nuclear weapons in conflict should be locked down , shunned internationally, treated like the pariah state that it is .
Israel Size Comparison Maps found Here .
reply to post by awa-king
That post was ironic (in detail, but not in peaceful intent), in case nobody noticed.
Yes it is a twisted remark, drawing attention to the fact that Africa, and its conflicts are largely ignored, although the deaths and human suffering are far worse than most highlighted Mid-East conflicts at present.
No matter what happens they will be subaltern, and that is the bitter, unfair, twisted reality.
So I think you took that literally when it was specifically meant to be sarcastic.
Thanks for noticing though, and caring about Africa!
PS: By this remark it is also hoped that people think wider than just a specific conflict, but also how resolving one in our imagination opens our hearts to resolve them all. Although tones like "humor" can fall flat with writing sometimes (it's always a gamble), perhaps it is good to strike an unintentional nerve, because we must be more vocal as Africans, and protesting a position does not mean we should accept it.
In any case, while I'm on a roll and the fat lady sings:
Song chorus:
"To the East and West,
We're both so disposible,
Let's join up,
And be un-opposible,
We're just Semites,
under the skiiiiin!"
[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]
That post was ironic (in detail, but not in peaceful intent), in case nobody noticed.
Yes it is a twisted remark, drawing attention to the fact that Africa, and its conflicts are largely ignored, although the deaths and human suffering are far worse than most highlighted Mid-East conflicts at present.
No matter what happens they will be subaltern, and that is the bitter, unfair, twisted reality.
So I think you took that literally when it was specifically meant to be sarcastic.
Thanks for noticing though, and caring about Africa!
PS: By this remark it is also hoped that people think wider than just a specific conflict, but also how resolving one in our imagination opens our hearts to resolve them all. Although tones like "humor" can fall flat with writing sometimes (it's always a gamble), perhaps it is good to strike an unintentional nerve, because we must be more vocal as Africans, and protesting a position does not mean we should accept it.
In any case, while I'm on a roll and the fat lady sings:
Song chorus:
"To the East and West,
We're both so disposible,
Let's join up,
And be un-opposible,
We're just Semites,
under the skiiiiin!"
[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]
Of course the solution for Israel is to make total peace with her neighbors. Since for a lot of reasons that is unlikely Israel is at severe risk in
any war. Will she survive as a nation? I think: yes. Now who is Israel likely to go to war with? In my mind ONLY Lebanon and Gaza. I think the only
way for Israel to attack Iran is with the help of the US. At this time I think this is a no go.
But IF Israel did in fact attack Iran on her own under the belief the US will come to her rescue it could get quite messy. Even with the help of the US Israel would be decimated. I can envision Iran sending about 2000 missles per hour to Israeli targets (Iran has 836 launchers) All of Israels missle defenses would stop only about 60%. I believe Syria and Hezbollah senseing Israels weakness will launch further missle and rocket attacks. At the end of the first day Israel will be in chaos. Israel MUST consider using nukes against both Syria and Iran to prevent Egypt and perhaps Turkey from entering the war.
Now it gets crazy. IF the US is stupid enough to assit Israel it will be WW3 with Russia and probably Pakistan and China supporting Iran. India will come out on Israels side and I believe Europe will be split.
Oil prices will go through the roof as Iran strikes all the oil fields in the Middle East. This will cause world economies to collaspe. The UN will be utterly useless.
The only way out is for the world to force Israel to make peace. Impose it on Israel!
But IF Israel did in fact attack Iran on her own under the belief the US will come to her rescue it could get quite messy. Even with the help of the US Israel would be decimated. I can envision Iran sending about 2000 missles per hour to Israeli targets (Iran has 836 launchers) All of Israels missle defenses would stop only about 60%. I believe Syria and Hezbollah senseing Israels weakness will launch further missle and rocket attacks. At the end of the first day Israel will be in chaos. Israel MUST consider using nukes against both Syria and Iran to prevent Egypt and perhaps Turkey from entering the war.
Now it gets crazy. IF the US is stupid enough to assit Israel it will be WW3 with Russia and probably Pakistan and China supporting Iran. India will come out on Israels side and I believe Europe will be split.
Oil prices will go through the roof as Iran strikes all the oil fields in the Middle East. This will cause world economies to collaspe. The UN will be utterly useless.
The only way out is for the world to force Israel to make peace. Impose it on Israel!
I would think if Israel attacked Iran, The whole mid east would erupt and Israel could instantly find itself at war with Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan
and Turkey.
From there if Israel choose to use Nukes i would think every Jew in the world could become a target by fellow Muslims....because it could only be seen as a religious war.
Right now support for Israel worldwide is at an all time low and it would be suicide for it to be seen as the aggressor.
From there if Israel choose to use Nukes i would think every Jew in the world could become a target by fellow Muslims....because it could only be seen as a religious war.
Right now support for Israel worldwide is at an all time low and it would be suicide for it to be seen as the aggressor.
Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by intrepid
IMO it is not just the Zionist anything..
It is a combination of several issues..
A deep seated and unexplainable hatred for the Jewish people the world over.
The "Underdog" concept I have alluded to before.
A hatred for the United States that extends to those She supports.
Oil and the Middle East.
It is without a doubt a very complex issue and it can not be watered down to one issue at all.
Semper
reply to post by Lucius Driftwood
Actually, I believe that it could arguably be brought down to one issue.
It is a religious one, ultimately between Jews and Arabs (or Judaism and Islam if you will). We have two brothers, two sons of Abraham fighting over who legally has the birthright and the inheritance. Isaac and Ishamel. Jew and Arab.
Personally, I believe that's what this all stems from. And to be honest, the Bible is the only source by which the Jews can stake their claim to the land (as promised by GOD). If there is no GOD, no Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, no covenant, no promised land, then the Jews have no claim to that land.
The flipside is, this small patch of land surrounded by Islamic states has somehow survived 60 plus years despite various attempts to eradicate it.
The fact that it is there is an affront and insult to Islam.
Bearing that in mind, until these two brothers can somehow find a way to be reconciled, there will be no peace.
Actually, I believe that it could arguably be brought down to one issue.
It is a religious one, ultimately between Jews and Arabs (or Judaism and Islam if you will). We have two brothers, two sons of Abraham fighting over who legally has the birthright and the inheritance. Isaac and Ishamel. Jew and Arab.
Personally, I believe that's what this all stems from. And to be honest, the Bible is the only source by which the Jews can stake their claim to the land (as promised by GOD). If there is no GOD, no Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, no covenant, no promised land, then the Jews have no claim to that land.
The flipside is, this small patch of land surrounded by Islamic states has somehow survived 60 plus years despite various attempts to eradicate it.
The fact that it is there is an affront and insult to Islam.
Bearing that in mind, until these two brothers can somehow find a way to be reconciled, there will be no peace.
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