Undeniable Proof?

reply to post by Phlynx

You got the 3.5 billion to 4 billion thing right, that is for cellular organisms. 1 billion years ago was the dawning of animals. So you believe we go through changes... could you elaborate?

Our hair grows. That is a change. We get tired. That is a change. We get sick. That is a change. We die. That is a change.

I can't find a link that says animals showed up at 1 billion years ago.

reply to post by Phlynx


You know what I'm saying.

@Conclusion: Even if some of the events and people in the Bible are proven real (and I also believe they existed), it doesn't give any credibility to the miraculous acts that this assumed Jesus performed.

Something in my rational mind says they didn't happen. Also, the subject of evolution is so vast that we cannot know exactly when did the organisms appear. It's being studied, constantly.

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Tryptych]

Well guys off to bed for me. I will check in tomorrow. You guys have a great night..or day.. where ever you are.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Phlynx

 

You got the 3.5 billion to 4 billion thing right, that is for cellular organisms. 1 billion years ago was the dawning of animals. So you believe we go through changes... could you elaborate?

Our hair grows. That is a change. We get tired. That is a change. We get sick. That is a change. We die. That is a change.

I can't find a link that says animals showed up at 1 billion years ago.

Somewhere in the documentary here it said that.

reply to post by Conclusion


If you had PROOF ? what would you do ? what if that proof went against all that people believe ? what would you do ? religion is man made to control the people , they have been naming this person or some thing as God from the being of recorded history . who is right ? just because you believe some thing some one told you all your life as if it is some fact , they told you it was ... but you traveled to a new land and met some one there and they told you they have a God too and it is not your God . what do you do ? what do you say ? who is wrong ? Just remember this Books like the Bible were written by Men. Not a single story was written in the times they claimed to have. most were written hundreds of years later. just think , 100 years ago . how many people could read or write ? now lets look back 2000 years . even less could , only those who were in power could read and write. it was about power and control . just as the person who would write of a war telling that their side won even if they were the losers of that war just so the leader of that time would look good to some one later in time to reading the history of that time. So back to If you had Proof ? no one that has ever lived on this earth has ever had Proof ! so do you in some way think you will have proof ? If you believe in some thing like God no mater who that God is , it is your God and you are not hurting any one else in the name of your God ! Have a good life and rest easy with that belief. just remember one thing it is your belief not to be forced on others who have their own ! And you still have no proof to back it up just what you believe.

Originally posted by hmmmm-maybe-so
reply to post by Conclusion

 

If you had PROOF ? what would you do ? what if that proof went against all that people believe ? what would you do ? religion is man made to control the people , they have been naming this person or some thing as God from the being of recorded history . who is right ? just because you believe some thing some one told you all your life as if it is some fact , they told you it was ... but you traveled to a new land and met some one there and they told you they have a God too and it is not your God . what do you do ? what do you say ? who is wrong ? Just remember this Books like the Bible were written by Men. Not a single story was written in the times they claimed to have. most were written hundreds of years later. just think , 100 years ago . how many people could read or write ? now lets look back 2000 years . even less could , only those who were in power could read and write. it was about power and control . just as the person who would write of a war telling that their side won even if they were the losers of that war just so the leader of that time would look good to some one later in time to reading the history of that time. So back to If you had Proof ? no one that has ever lived on this earth has ever had Proof ! so do you in some way think you will have proof ? If you believe in some thing like God no mater who that God is , it is your God and you are not hurting any one else in the name of your God ! Have a good life and rest easy with that belief. just remember one thing it is your belief not to be forced on others who have their own ! And you still have no proof to back it up just what you believe.

Wow..
This is hypothetical.
Obviously he doesn't actually have proof.
Just wow..

[edit on 5-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

As for me personally, my belief in G-d would not be changed in any way. Haha, right... well it would defeat the purpose because then I would never have any doubts. I think doubts are an important part of faith, they cause you to take a deeper look and then you start seeing the bigger picture instead of just thinking "why did He let my loved one die?" or stuff like that. You realize that these experiences shape who we are as people. I absolutely LOVE IT (well ok, the somewhat darker, more competitive side of me loves it) when people are convinced there is no G-d because of "all the suffering". I`ve suffered just as much as anyone. And if I became wheelchair bound, blind/deaf, or got cancer (or all the above at once) tomorrow, I would be just as happy. By living a life based on loving relationships rather than money (I am BELOW poverty for american standards, i survive on less than $500 a month) and I KNOW that no matter what conditions I found myself in, that my friends and family would do anything it took for me. And if something happens to them or they just go away for some reason, I have my own mind to keep me company, which is rich and cultivated thanks to living a life filled with G-d`s love. I am fully aware of manipulation within organized religion, so I realized that, while the books and the priests and whatniot do have some wisdom to share, they are a physical manifestation of a metaphysical idea and that will always be flawed and have the potential to be flawed or altered from the perfect state it originated from. So all we need to do is rely on our minds to tell us right from wrong. Or sometimes just as importanly, necessary from unnecessary. Some things may seem harmless enough. But the very fact that it is unnecessary means that you now must sacrifice your energy and attention which could have been spent on something necessary. IS it a great wrong? Perhaps not...


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by ConclusionSo you would not follow Christ if you had your proof that he were the truth?

now that you mention it - no , i am excerising my free will

is it actually compulsory - if so why ????????????????

just my opinion - if it is compulsory - the notion that i was created soley to worship my creator is rather disturbing and any creator that needs woeship so badly that he has to create things to worship him is to put it bluntly pathetic

...but it`s a sneaky wrong, and goes unnoticed too often.Our lives are jam packed with unnecessary distraction. I BELIEVE IF WE Really listen to what our inner mind is telling us, we can tell when something isn`t quite right. But our outter mind just bulldozes right over that because of our senses. They are too overloaded with extremes that override our tiny little inner voice. You always hear about how someone solves some difficult problem after a period of meditation. Meditation is not always just sitting in a quiet room. I know people who meditate best while working in their garden or doing yard/house work or home repairs or whatever it is thar you enjoy doing to the point that you "get in the zone". Perhaps it can even be done while playing a video game... but probly not while watching a movie or tv. It has to be something where you are in control of your mind. During TV, you hand over your brain and say, ok, people i dont know: you take the wheel for a while, i dont feel like driving anymore so take me on a ride, i may have a general idea but ultimately you can decide the final destination. You have no idea what will come next, you must dedicate your attention in order to find out what they will put in front of you next. It really is like putting some code of software in your headf because whatever your watching(processing) the goal is to get to the end, come to a conclusion and complete the process. That`s why shows like LOST are driving people up the wall because their brains are still waiting for the end of the code, the part that would read: END OF TRANSMISSION or whatever. So thats why so many people really are "lost" in life. They got so used to "handing over the wheel" that now they are inept at operating the vehicle on their own. We have all the answers inside, we`ve just been fooled into believing we are weak.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

if there was hands down, undeniable proof, i would be all over it. i would change my life completely to live as closely to god as i possibly could, but considering there will never that kind of evidence i'm fine with continuing to think that religion is silly and illogical.

If we had proof or if He just showed up and solved everything, some people might still not trust in Him. Other religions would sprout up... people would still be tempted by evil. I know I am. One thing we must accept is that, at least for now, we HAVE that dark side. It will manifest itself in various ways...THATS why there is suffering. We are allowing it. And who can blame us, we are not perfect. We are just a physical manifestation of a perfect idea... I personally like the idea that nobody truly has evidence of what He/She/They is/are or what their intantions or motives are. It`s a mystery you can only feel, not see or touch. I believe that when we do find out (if ever) that it will be something more amazing than any of us could`ve imagined. Proof of human interference in religion is NOT proof that there is no G-d... it proves that those who wished to gain control over others were wise enough to know that religion could be a powerful tool to accomplish this feat. And when we know that humans have always strived to dominate eachother, it is reasonable to believe that it`s all been corrupted for a long time now. So our own minds are the only place left to turn to. Your question reminds me of the song "what if God was one of us". I picture Him coming home after a long day of dealing with the complexities of the universe to find that His finest creation has forgotten about Him, and the one`s who haven`t are traveling WAY off the path He Intended, trying way to hard to prove how religious they are, by passing judgement on His flock and condemning their fellow people with a smile for the slightest infraction, all the while thinking to themselves how good they are and that they should let others "lie in the bed they made" whether it be homeless and hungry, or in a jail cell or execution chamber. He also finmds that some people have came to His house and broke out all the windows and spraypainted lewd comments all over the walls. No, I believe, in His supreme intelligence, in the matter of full disclosure He has decided best as usual. Proof is there if you can feel it, but the gift of free will allows someone else to say "how do you know what you`re feeling?" Another example of Supreme intelligence, and love.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

...after all, He is not a dictator. (note: I`ve acknowledged that our creator may not be male, or female. I use "He" for simplicity until I come up with a more accurate term, if ever. no offense intended) That would defeat the purpose. You can quote some bible scriptures saying some mean spirited things about G_d, but again, that was written by men... I believe they kept a lot of the "message" intact, but just changed enough for their purposes. Which still makes it incredibly difficult to discern what is "real". Which again is why we must discern with our own minds. One can learn much from life and from his fellow humans if he takes a tolerant stance and actually listens rather than being in such a hurry to push your own beliefs on others. No matter how much you think you know, you can still always learn something from any person you come into contact with. Be it a bum, criminal, or 4 year old child... My personal "religion" evolves as I grow and develop. So if you have any critique on anything I`ve said, that would be appreciated. To assume I`ve reached perfection in such a small amount of time would be rather arrogant. You can u2u me on anything not related to the OP so as not to pUT this thread off track. In fact, I never have time to return to a thread, so thats the only way I`ll hear any comments anyway. To the OP`er, thanks for this opportunity. I appreciate it fully, knowing that this type of free talk between regular folks many kilometers apart may not always be possible. So let`s do as much as we can, while we can.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

If some of you want to go beyond the limitation of words/philosophy and discover irrefutable, mathematical evidence for the existence of transcendental design and intelligence, spend the next few months studying the research articles (html or downloadable PDFs) at:

smphillips.8m.com...

In the profusely illustrated book "The mathematical connection between religion and science" advertised there, you will discover that there is a form of knowledge that transcends the theories/models of science and the dogmas of religion. Its beauty and power is evidence of its divine origin in the Mind of God. Explore it in the book.

If undeniable proof were to arise that proves God/Jesus/Bible (deity/savior/book be it for any religion) is actually true then I would convert from atheism to said religion.

That is the whole thing though isn't it. Screw the freewill argument/excuse religious people use.....
All that a deity needs to do is show himself/herself/itself to the world (if he/she/it exists) and I guarantee everyone will turn religious in the blink of an eye. No more wars, no more trying to prove this religion over the other ETC.

But that wont happen because there are no such things as gods, man created god.

"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer" ("If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him") Voltaire

I wouldn't automatically "follow" a god if science could somehow prove the existence of one. I would have to see whether he was good... or not. The proof of existence, is not proof of benevolence. In fact, I would have evidence to suggest that he is not benevolent, seeing how evil the world is, how evil his creation is. If a god created the world and everything in it, why would he create such an evil world if he was so kind, giving and benevolent? I would certainly need proof of this god's motives before I would blindly follow him. If god was scientifically proven to exist, then the proof against his benevolence has already been realized.

--airspoon

Well, I got undeniable proof, but only for myself. I asked God to give me evidence that would compel me to believe in Him and He sent it. Before this I thought religion was all a bunch of baloney. I've changed how I live my life.

First it will confuse you, then scare the hell out of you, then give you comfort.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by 547000]

People often speak of wanting proof, but, usually only the proof they want to hear is what they consider valid.. So... Yeah.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by vasaga]

If I was forced by irrefutable evidence to accept the American Evangelical version of God and Jesus, I'd opt to cleaning toilets in Hell. It'd feel like the same thing anyway. No danger in that, though.

Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by Conclusion

 

Thank you for the thread! Very interesting!

If there was undeniable proof of God, I would believe God is real and exists. My opinion on God would depend on what God it was. If it was the Christian God, then my opinion would match Phlynx. I would not like the God and would not become his follower if he was that particular God.

This is just my opinion!

Kind regards

I have undeniable proof. Check out the mirror, look like anyone you know? You won't recognize him so don't get scared, God has many names and faces, creating a new one approx. every 7 seconds in the world.

Maybe love one another as you would be loved is a "free point" energy that powers the super natural body of God being all, knowing all, seeing all even as we are.

Inside of you it is a Dark Vacuum, a (space) if you will...let there be light, and he saw the light and it was good.

Peace

reply to post by Conclusion


1. There is NO such thing as undenaiable proof of anything, let alone of the existance of God.

2. I do believe in a God-like Creator Consiouness of which ALL and EVERYTHING is but a tiny spark.

3. YES I changed my Life in a slow process I realised ALL is but ONE and evrything and everyone we see around us, is a piece of a complex diamond shaped mirror.

Namaste! I greet the God Soul in you