I mourn...

reply to post by Hypntick

To the guy that gave up the 100k a year job, that sickens me. I can't even begin to understand the thought process that went into that. I guess some of us don't quite have the luxury to give up a very well paying job, buy a huge house and spend all of our free time with friends and family. Some of us barely scrape by as it is with a quarter of that salary, the dream of owning a house or car made in the last 20 years is pretty much dead.

I see how you got that, but I think you missed the main point.

1. The 100k job had me working every holiday, every saturday, and just about every sunday. My kids were asleep when I went to work, and if I was lucky I got to kiss them goodnight when I got home. I wasn't a father, I was just child support.

2. I didn't go buy a big house. My parents had bought a big fixer upper, and they were slowly working at it. I helped them remodel it into something viable for two families to use. My Dad had his hours cut and the house payment was stressing him. Plus, maintenance on a big ol house and yard and pool is very time consuming and physically hard on an ol man. So, win-win with us moving in and sharing responsibilities and expenses. Nicer house, less bills, less work. (We took a page from the immigrants playbook, LOL!)

3. I would love to make more money too! BUT, I will only do it if it doesn't compromise my lifestyle and family time. My wife has said that she would rther live in a cardboard box and have the familly together than to live alone in a beautiful house!

After lurking here for the past 3 years, this thread forced my hand to the join ATS icon. I feel your pain, as a 13 year aluminum welder who fast approching my second year of unemployment, I have done a lot of soul searching as of late. I chose a blue collar career for a love of all things mechanical, and a belief in hard work supplying all lifes needs. Sadly, the craftman trades are fast evaporating into cheap overseas economics. On a lighter note, Im back in school at 31, and more aware of the chaos growing all around us everyday. All I can say is keep your head up, cynical views quickly drive close ones away, I speak from experience Keep celebrating!!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Hypntick, you must also remember that you are not aware of all circumstances. GetReadyAlready makes good points but doesn't point out even more information that would make you want to eat your shoes for responding that way.

It isn't up to me or any of us to educate you, but let me give you an example of a life changing opinion that I recently had.

I have for a long time felt sickened by seeing a vehicle such as an H2 or H3 Hummer with a handicapped sticker on it and parked in handicapped parking. I have long been sickened by seeing a person with a handicapped sticker walk into a store after what I perceived to be taking advantage of the system we live in. Then, one day, I texted my brother with a picture, smugly thinking how rude and imprudent it was for the person in the picture of the H3 Hummer to have parked in that space. My brother, the wise person he occasionally is(haha more often than I care to admit sometimes), in a very nice way explained that our friend also has a handicapped sticker. My friend is an ex-Florida State Football player with 2 ACC championship rings and used to bench press around 400lbs. He pointed out that our friend owns a large truck that you literally have to climb inside of to get in. He pointed out that our friend, the healthy buff, ex football player, is currently in California for Cancer Treatment that very well may kill him. He pointed out that our friend, the healthy, buff, ex football player, becomes out of breath when walking through a department store because of his treatments for the Cancer that Came Back after a year of treatment.

You see, I made quick judgments on people whose situations I did not know and probably would not have understood, thinking if they were handicapped they should have vehicles with easier access and more handicapped accessible or that they should not have been walking into the store, when I perceived them as healthy. I had forgotten that sometimes circumstances neglect to account for what we already own or how we had been living our currently comfortable lives. Now, however, when I see those vehicles or people who park close, I realize that I don't know why they have those stickers, I don't know their circumstances or why they need to park closer to the door. I wanted to eat my shoes after he pointed this out because I realized I was simply an arrogant, inconsiderate jerk. I hadn't thought of the things I should have.

Just because someone had a 100k per year job did not make them wealthy. GetReadyAlready is far more wealthy now than he ever has been, and not because of his bank account. I am glad he gets to spend time with his family, I am glad he gets to have more leisure time than he did before. Then again, I have a unique perspective on the matter that others may not have.

I am thankful for the leisure time I have available. I am happy about the life I am preparing for. While I also have a Masters degree and could have taken a job making 6 figures in DC or New York, I am happy to have accepted a job making far less to teach high school and spend much more time with my family. I am thankful for the lessons I have learned from my brother.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by memarf1]

reply to post by getreadyalready

My wife has said that she would rther live in a cardboard box and have the familly together than to live alone in a beautiful house!

That is such a beautiful sentiment I had to reply. The root of the problem lies in materialism. Too often we trade our lives for money.

I drove a truck cross-country for 8 years, and made some pretty nice coin doing it. I loved the road! And I may yet go back to it, but not until my two children are settled and established. they managed with Mommy and seeing Daddy every other weekend for long enough; it was time that they needed more than Mommy could provide. For me, it was a no-brainer... without those kids, what the Hades was I working for?

All those nice shiny toys we see are just that: toys. What really matters is us: our families, our freedom, our self-worth. When we trade those things for shiny toys, it is like you trading your family for an income.

It just ain't worth it.


reply to post by Palehorse450R



Welcome to ATS!

At the risk of seeming hypocritical, after railing about all of the entitlement mentality, I have to admit that, even at my age, I am able to go back to school thanks to some of those social programs. If the red tape doesn't get tangled, I start this fall semester.

I am well aware as I do this that no one is going to pay me to go to school forever, though. My plans are to start and succeed in a third career in my lifetime, since the first (designer) I can't seem to find a job in and the second is too hard on my family. I would rather work in another field than rely upon a government check any day.

May you find nothing but success and happiness in your new career!

TheRedneck

I celebrated tonight.

Honoring my nation's independence.....a lit off CHINESE Fireworks around CHINESE MADE AMERICAN FLAGS. In Disney world they likely lit off CHinese Fireworks, with stores full of CHINESE made Mickey Mouses lining the mock streets.

I love what this country USED to stand for and what people fought for....I am often ashamed for what it means now.....and that saddens me.....although I know there are plenty of great people out there.....it's just that we are all so easily mislead.....

IMO...the US FLAG has turned into one big ass, gigantic DOLLAR SIGN.

I said similar to my husband.. and then mentioned I always wanted a historic home. When we were transfered to where we are now, he bought me one alright. I call it the money pit. LOL! Nothing better than fixing your own place. Unfortunately the fixing never seems to stop!

We're pretty stuck but I thank God that even though hubby works for the ptb basically that we have an income like we do. We live like lower middle class and make upper middle class money. I was making 60K right about with my job alone. Then we had a daughter born with a rare liver disease. She was in the process of slowly dying for years, it sped up and we had a truly dying child who got an emergency liver transplant. Now we live lower middle class to keep her in meds and etc. Having 3 kids is hard enough, then you get an ill one and you give EVERYTHING up ( almost your own soul to work in certain areas) to keep them alive.

Life is about sacrifices I believe. Not always the cherry on top, but at least some of us like the other poster who gave up his high paying job for family decide for ourselves just what we will sacrifice and when. Thats some real true freedom my friends. Really think about that. Is it not worth celebrating that kind of freedom? Somehow I think thats what matters most... how you see things and when you KNOW freedom is internal and not external.. then you can really be free. Remember those "little things". Mourn the things you lose as Im positive its healthy, but always know they can be regained at some point. As in our freedoms that we are griping about.. they really can be regained. Unfortunately its a process.. and like myself Im sure youre just as impatient for it to be done.

Redneck:

Some of what you have said is heartfelt
and definately eloquent. They are your
beliefs and I agree with some of them.

Religion is not a guarantee, nor a right
as far as I believe. Because of that I feel
that giving credit to a Supreme Being;
whoever it is you believe in for your freedom
only cheapens the very real sacrifice this
day is to commemorate.

I also do not vote for any particular party
because I feel that any rigid political idealogy
is tantamount to treason. Saying that and
knowing some little bit of history; regulation
is not new and is no more a danger now than
it was when Teddy Roosevelt was trustbusting.

I also cannot see my rights disappearing any
faster under Obama than I did under Bush and
the loss of Habeas Corpus for a time. Which is
worse?

Revisionist history is a dangerous thing and it
does not care who uses it.

Wow I actually didn't know that in world there is such thing as "electric can opener". My whole life I had do it with a regular can opener and it doesn't take too much effort (obviously if you are not a child - and child shouldn't even open cans because they could cut himself) nor too much time - 10 - 15 seconds. I realize power tools need electricity because the work people doe with them really would take much effort if they had just basic tools.

Second thing I didn't know is that you can call anyone in America for free. Is it really so - through land lines? Because it just seems strange to me as we have to pay for that.

I do not have any fancy high-tech windows either. Instead I have pinewood - glass windows. I live in a house that once was German manor's stable. My grand-grandfather made it into house in beginning of 20th century.

So anyway as I live in Latvia lower middle-class family - whole my life I have been celebrating Christmas and such without electronic fireworks or huge cans of alcohol and loads of food but with home made food, my family, maybe some relatives, close friends.

To add - We usually celebrate Christmas, Easter, Midsummer, New Year, Independence day, birthdays and name-days.

To add - we aren't Christians - and we light up fire and jump past it, sing ancient folk-songs drink beer, eat cheese... and so on.

I just thought I would throw in this thread some different culture's experience.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Very well-written essay. This is going to be saved on my hard drive for future use. I have noticed these freedoms slipping away as well, and one of the most important things to do is articulate what is happening like you did here so that the arguments are accessable and can be built upon.

reply to post by archasama

I enjoyed that.

God bless you.

There's too many people in this country that try to mimic their idols which are unfortunately mostly sleazy celebrities. The result is a bunch of classless ignorant jerks who only further divide our society.

I say this as someone who's tired of lending a helping hand, only to have someone spit in it over and over by nearly everyone out there, like they all expect to be treated with respect but don't respect anyone but themselves. This selfishness will only grow and worsen and those who were once open to helping others will find themselves more and more reluctant to do so.

If only this trend could be stopped and reversed, humanity may stand a chance to not slip back towards serfdom and tyrants, but as long as the people cannot unite, we'll never stand a chance.

I agree a lot with what nixie_nox said, although I understand where TheRedneck is coming from. Simply put, there will never be an agreement as to which time period is/was the best, because each person fits best with a certain time in history, and all spots can be filled. While people celebrate, there will always be people who mourn, and where people complain that everything keeps getting worse, others will compliment how wonderful life is becoming.

I spent my 4th of July sitting at the bedside of my 90yr old grandfather's bed at the VA nursing home. His body is starting to fail and they have him on comfort-care only...which was his wish. I'm not sure if he knew I was there holding his hand; some part of me believes that he knew. I sat there with him all day and evening. My wife and daughter were there for a while, tho you can't keep a 5yr old sitting quiet and still for too long.

My grandfather has a younger brother, a son (my dad), a daughter-in-law (my mom), 8 grandchildren and their spouses, and 19 great grandchildren. He has countless friends and associates.
On this 4th of July when it was announced the same very morning that his end time was near, only 1 grandchild/spouse/great grandchild were able to forego the beer and fun to spend some of the last possible moments with their dear family member. The excuses of "oh we already had plans", and "but what about fireworks?", have been used heavily by all.

Other than my grandfather's elderly brother who is out of state, my immediate family lives the furthest away from the VA. Everyone else is within a 45 minute drive. I don't understand.

I mourn too Redneck...I mourn too.

reply to post by TheRedneck

And as I sit here, I am unemployed. I have been either un-employed or under-employed for the last year and a half. I am the poor at this time in my life, and yet, compared to other places, I am wealthy beyond imagination. Because I was born under in capitalistic United States of America.

The US is NOT THE ONLY capitalistic country in the world. I am from a country where there is unchecked Capitalism and everything is deregulated, just Free Market... and yet my country is a 3rd world country.

Most country in the world are capitalistic for your information. And the very few that claim to have TRUE/PURE socialism only employ a small degree of Socialism, the truth is they are mostly Oligarchy/Dictatorship.

You are "wealthy beyond imagination" not because of Capitalism but because of all the benefits/privileges provided to you by the system called SOCIALISM.

Any country that collects taxes to be able to build roads, schools, afford a military, cops, firefighters, justice, "homeland security, and other public services/benefits is made possible by the system called SOCIALISM.

The definition of Socialism in short is "Collective Ownership" where people chip in money to afford something for the benefit of everybody. What do you think are taxes for?

You did not forget to put your CAR on that list but you somehow forgot to put the ROAD you drive it in which is provided to you by the system called SOCIALISM.

PEACE.

We are certainly living in a time of turbulent transsition, the fear comes from not knowing exactly were we are going or how much longer this will continue. Stay strong ATS.

S+F

You sit at home complaining that there are too many holidays? You complain about the freedoms you don't have? How about thinking of the freedoms you do have, how about thinking of those of us who cannot afford to have time off from work. I have worked Christmas and New Year's Day (the 2 major holidays here in the UK) for the past 3 years. I work 2 jobs just to pay the bills and take care of my family, whilst at the time worrying because 85 of my co-workers have just been made redundant and I question who is going to be next.

Have you any idea what it's like to work so many hours that you rarely get to see your own daughter, because by the time you get home she's asleep? On top of that, I have a disabled 76 year old father to care for.

Having said all that, I still class myself as fortunate enough to live in a developed, first world country. I struggle to pay my car tax, or the TV licence etc. There are people out there living in abject poverty, struggling to eat, unable to find water. People living in fear of their lives, fear of TRUE opression, being raped or sold into slavery.

Yet you have too many holidays...

It's all about perspective.

That's a very long essay, and there's a lot of truth in it, but to sum it up, they've won? You have hope but refuse to celebrate and instead choose to withdraw and mourn? To allow these setbacks to affect your spirit and the spirits of those around you?

People need togetherness and celebration more in times of hardship, if only to prove there still is hope, that you still have each other, that all is still not lost. You mourn when something or someone is dead, not while there's still hope.

I feel your pain my bretheren and i understand your inner feelings and if you could sum it up into a word would it not be HOPE we the people of the world are loosing or have in fact lost HOPE
im anglo american so i see both sides and you can never generalise or sterotype a peoples becuase the bottom line basic fact is that all the peoples of all the nations upon GODs great earth are all the same we live we laugh we love we cry we all have faith we all know love but we have all had our HOPE stolen from us by OUR so called GOVERNMENTS the ones that lead us and "apparently" represent us but the unfathomable truth is they dont run the world the ones that really run the world we never see and they in turn buy of those that represent us with promises and reward of privelage money and power through all manner of wicked and corrupt schemes
so i belive people are looking at what they have and what they dont have and realing its there HOPE that is missing which strians there LOVE and makes them either find or question there FAITH

but ill tell you what i do know i know for a fact that the time of reckoning is at hand at the very door and soon all shall hear the knock
be whome you are in your hearts treat your bretheren no matter race or color as you would have them treat you FOR YOU ARE ALL BORN OF LOVE TO LOVE IT IS IGNORANCE AND HATE THAT YOUR TEACHERS PREACHERS AND SHEPARDS HAVE TAUGHT YOU but all is not lost for many are finding and realising there TRUTH.

reply to post by TheRedneck


"But there is hope. There is hope that the people will one day realize what they have lost, and why they have lost it. There is hope that the ills of this once-great country can be overcome. There is hope that the next generation can realize, before it's too late, that our future is indeed in their hands, and the answers they seek are clear to see if one looks at history."

Why wait for the next generation to clean up what your generation and the generation before has allowed to transpire? Is it possible that the generation before you felt the same way? How about someone getting of of their ass now and doing something?

just a thought

reply to post by TheRedneck


First, thank you Redneck, for a well-thought out and beautifully written thread. Much of it resonates strongly in my view as well of where the United States has come from, and where it is going.

As usual, on July 4th, both m'Bride and I ponder some of the history of the traditional celebration and play the 1812 Overture as loud as is reasonable. Why the 1812 Overture........ wasn't it written by Tchaikovsky -- A Russian -- to commemorate the withdrawl of Napoleon from Russia? Yes, I believe so. Apparently, others do as well. I play it because it was a standard during my childhood for Independence Day, which at that time was played by a local orchestra of a very small town on an island park in the middle of a wild river. The highlight for me as a child, of course, was the firing of the cannon. The symbology is very deep and it still tugs at my heartstrings of patriotism and nationalism.

As it turns out this year, due to being in the midst of a three-day thunderstorm (7" of rain in just the last 24-hours), we didn't light any fireworks, nor did anyone have to wander by and shake their heads with confusion as to the reason a modest guitar amp duo is blaring this rousing music. This year, it had to be blared from inside the house, pointing out the front door. I imagine passing frigate birds might've been a tad put off.

Today is Constitution Day in the Cayman Islands, a holiday. Some of us also celebrated Canada Day on 1 July. These are also days that remind some of us of the various ties between nations and moreover the days that commemorate their governmental foundations, and I remember always those who have fallen in wars defending those and other ideals. I am not here to defend wars, but I cannot abide by disrespecting those hearty individuals that fought and still fight them today.

Like you and many other Americans and others throughout the globe, we've had to tighten our belts considerably; Paid work has been less for me and many others here than in previous years......... but we appreciate that we own shoes. I don't know how many people in the world have shoes, but I'd guess less than 25%. I appreciate having clean drinking water -- something much of the world struggles with and dies from the lack of. Most of all, I count my blessings daily that I have love in my life -- the love OF my life, whom I would be lost without. We will face anything that comes together. Does that sound sappy? I don't care.

Where is the United States going? Well, that's unknown; I'd like to think that her denizens have a say in that direction, but do they as a whole even had a clear idea of the goals that are best for the sustainable growth of a nation? Do the citizens of any nation? I kind of doubt it; I don't see clear evidence of it even within this tiny little nation in which I live.

Will I light three boxes of 500g-payload fireworks tonight? Probably. For me, they commemorate what I think of as an "Constitutional season" -- not to imply that such ideas and beliefs are relegated to a few collection of days, but for me, a time to reflect upon history and how it changes us, and most of all, how we choose to contribute to the writing of it, with our own heart and souls -- the works of our lives.


[edit on 5/7/10 by argentus]