What is the Biblical age of sexual consent?

When religion is asked why it focuses guilt on a pretty average chunk of people for
individual drives that come naturally, the argument is that pedophilia and murder may also be "excused" by the "natural drive" argument.
However, there is nothing specifically in religious texts on what constitutes pedophilia. There certainly seems to be no scriptual age of consent. So here religion must concede that it is following secular law, which itself varies between countries and states.
If one took 16 as a general age of consent most religious myth and theory falls into the realm of sinful illegality. Some would argue that religion has been a cover for legalized child-abuse, and it's not just the Catholics who have monthly scandals in that respect.
Some who were raised Catholic told me that Mary was 13 when she was "magically" impregnated, and Mohammed had a wife (Aisha) of 9. Is there any proof for this?
Others claim that the fundamentalist Christian "Silver Ring Thing" demands that unmarried men and women remain chaste even in areas where the average age of marriage is 29!
Well, it seems like all the great scriptural heroes were child-abusers and statutary rapists by our current standards.
For me any sexual activity below 18 is shakey and wrong, but where does any religion get the historical background to pronounce themselves as "moral" based on modern concepts like "pedophilia"?

It shouldn't matter since "we" today believe we are "smarter" than those in the past, we should obey the laws of today.

Ped is wrong.

Originally posted by halfoldman
Some who were raised Catholic told me that Mary was 13 when she was "magically" impregnated, and Mohammed had a wife (Aisha) of 9. Is there any proof for this?

I would never trust Catholics on religious lessons. They tend to make stuff up as they go. As for as Muslims go....what can you expect of a religion whose Prophet is a pedophile????

reply to post by Carseller4

So, to both posters really, what should one base it on?
We could argue historically, and say people now live beyond 40, and that concepts like "childhood", and "teenagers" now exist.
Therefore we have ages where adults may only interfere with youngsters restrictively. I think it's really post 19th-century medical and psychological arguments that make a strong case for an 18 age of consent.

Religion had no role in establishing such a construct.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]

It doesnt matter what the bible or any other religion says for age consent.
It only matters what the Law of today says and that is 18.

reply to post by crash override


Ha, to bad the law is considered a religion.

The biblical age of consent? Marriage.

Originally posted by halfoldman
When religion is asked why it focuses guilt on a pretty average chunk of people for
individual drives that come naturally, the argument is that pedophilia and murder may also be "excused" by the "natural drive" argument.
However, there is nothing specifically in religious texts on what constitutes pedophilia. There certainly seems to be no scriptual age of consent. So here religion must concede that it is following secular law, which itself varies between countries and states.
If one took 16 as a general age of consent most religious myth and theory falls into the realm of sinful illegality. Some would argue that religion has been a cover for legalized child-abuse, and it's not just the Catholics who have monthly scandals in that respect.
Some who were raised Catholic told me that Mary was 13 when she was "magically" impregnated, and Mohammed had a wife (Aisha) of 9. Is there any proof for this?
Others claim that the fundamentalist Christian "Silver Ring Thing" demands that unmarried men and women remain chaste even in areas where the average age of marriage is 29!
Well, it seems like all the great scriptural heroes were child-abusers and statutary rapists by our current standards.
For me any sexual activity below 18 is shakey and wrong, but where does any religion get the historical background to pronounce themselves as "moral" based on modern concepts like "pedophilia"?

Consider the source? . . . Whoever wrote/scribed the bible would inevitably insert their own proclivities into the text. Women hating romans wrote about a "deeper" love between JC and his followers and the evil sins of the women (even painted MM as a whore). So following that example and the reasoning you have shown above . . . I think you know the answer to why girls and boys were not off limits!!! Ancient times were tougher . . . Life expectancy short and child birth was a crap shoot. Survival would always win out against "societal norms".

Thankfully we have, today, seen advances in medicine and psych that help us understand that while physically younger women can give birth (marry) . . . emotionally (and somewhat physically) they are much better suited to wait until after adolesence.

EDIT to ADD: Meant - you cares what they believed 3k-2k yrs ago . . . that time has long since past and is no longer relevant.

[edit on 7/4/10 by solomons path]

Originally posted by gandhi
reply to post by crash override

 

Ha, to bad the law is considered a religion.

The biblical age of consent? Marriage.

Are you sure? I thought it was when they biologically become fertile?

Originally posted by crash override
It doesnt matter what the bible or any other religion says for age consent.
It only matters what the Law of today says and that is 18.

18 there. Not in so many other place like here for example.

reply to post by crash override

From a legalistic point of view yeah, agreed.
Although this varies from country to country, and several Western regions still allow marriages up to 14 (for girls) with parental consent. I recall the scandal when Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin of 13 - although the scandal was a bigger deal in Europe and Lewis' relative, Jimmy Swaggert didn't get very involved.

For me the scandal is how religion uses the term "pedophilia".
So it tells the public that if same-sex marriages were allowed, then beastiality or pedophilia will be allowed next.
Whenever the religious right runs out of arguments ON homosexuality, it proposes alarmist scenarios of what may FOLLOW equal gay rights.
When it does this it mentions sins that the Bible doesn't discuss, and it claims to offer remedies for social ills that its scriptures do not recognize, since they come from a different time.



[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman


Biologically speaking, as soon as a female starts to ovulate, they are ready to go. Although many little girls today lack the maturity or means at that age to take care of a child. That is probably a result of our society. They have to aquire many more skills in today's world in order to secure a good future. They are still children at that age because our society keeps them in a role of dependence. Back when we were chucking spears at mammoths, I think that a 13 y.o. would have been well into adulthood.

reply to post by halfoldman


triple post? what the hec.. sorry ya'll

[edit on 4-7-2010 by tamusan]

reply to post by halfoldman


see above. sorry again.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by tamusan]

However it is indeed interesting when we scream.."Damn those pedophiles" !!!! as they parade creepy, wimpy soft wormy guys in front of the media cameras via Nancy Grace and Chris Hansen.

Meanwhile our illustrious super wealthy and powerful leaders traffic children in droves on 727's and other transportation means overseas and abroad for slavery and sex with people you never would suspect. After all, these people are married, have kids, above well paying jobs, respected by their peers..just all around upstanding members in their communities and abroad. Who would have thought such a thing of accusing upstanding members in our communities,,,,they contribute and give so much to the good of the world.

and besides....they couldn't keep such an event of this magnitude secret and if so not for very long (wink wink)

I have always wondered what these private military companies like Xe get paid for securing these operations. I wonder what the paramilitary members individually get paid for these operations

Oh golly gee wiz beave...Its only hearsay conspiracy theory whacko cannot be proved stuff anyways.

Move along....Here's a pillow and blanky for the rest of your slumber..
sleep well.

Since the original question is based on a religious perspective, here is what little I know.

Most religions observe religious coming of age, which means the children have pretty much reached puberty age and are thus responsible for their own actions. For example, in Judaism boys have reached religious maturity at age 13, while girls reach religious maturity at age 12. And I think Islam requires children who begin to exhibit any signs of puberty to begin religious observances. Check out Wikipedia for some more religious coming of age examples.

However, most religions that I am aware of practice marriage BEFORE sexual relations are acceptable, and even then I think that abstinence is preferred so one can become closer to God by not partaking in the sins of the flesh. Except for Islam, which according to Wikipedia

Islam discourages celibacy as a form of religious practice, and considers marriage as the best form that regulates the sexual relationship of human beings.

The legal marriage age by state can be found here.

But the bottom line on any of this is what do modern norms and laws say about this?

In the US, if she's under 18 (21 in some areas) keep your pants on, your hands to yourself and find someone your own age.

reply to post by PunisherSupreme

An interesting clip, although some of the ages bandied about seem chilling to me.
But the point is - during past ages in history the practise was normal in the Semitic cultures and beyond.
Boys became soldiers at 13-15 and murdered people for religion.
People are quick to judge Islam (which at least honestly addresses the issue) or Catholicism, but they cannot claim anything better as proof from their history or scriptures.
So when various Christian sects and mega-churches claim to save the world from pedophilia, they are claiming kudos for something they never discussed as sin - they are in fact, bearing "False Witness".

[edit on 4-7-2010 by halfoldman]

I would never trust Catholics on religious lessons. They tend to make stuff up as they go. As for as Muslims go....what can you expect of a religion whose Prophet is a pedophile????

I'm guessing you would trust a Christian though... cuz they're so much better.

Go back in your hole. Oh wait, ahhhh Texas, that explains it.

Can it thus be assumed (and I'm hoping somebody proves me wrong) that if a girl of 9-13 has menstruated, she can be married to a 30, or even 70 year old single man, and there is no Bible verse against this?

In that case "pedophilia" as a sin from which Christianity aims to save society, should be removed as a loosely defined argument from all Christian literature and websites.

Originally posted by Myendica
It shouldn't matter since "we" today believe we are "smarter" than those in the past, we should obey the laws of today.

Ped is wrong.

We could argue your point about being "SMARTER" now than in the Past, but you would need to create a Topic theme inwhich that premise was the Topic. The Arguement you present is not really valid, since the LAWS of the ENLIGHTENED Society which knows all for the Greater Good, are the Same that have Destroyed the Family Unit and replaced it with the Disposable Age.

As for the Biblical aspect, the Age of Consent is part of a twofold scenario.

The Age of Consent follows the Age of Accountablity.

Once you reach a point in your life when you understand and comprehend the implications which revolve around the premise of Accountablity for ones actions, then the Age of Consent becomes a matter you are able to decide for oneself.

Looking back a few 100 years ago, the U.S. was created with many family units that involved 16 Year Old Men and 12 Year Old Women as the Parents of a family unit that in many cases exceeded 8 Children.

So, the arguement it is wrong due to the Ideals of Society, is not one which holds much sway. Societies main desire is to eliminate the Family and replace it with the "Village" as Hillary and Oprah tend to think.

But I would say today, because we are held back from being educated, and not ever taught about being accountable for anything, we are not as prepared for the roles of Manhood and Womanhood as we have been in the Past.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Shane]

reply to post by Shane

Well the "smarter" argument doesn't really convince me. This may be true for the Western world, according to its own standards. But from a fundamentalist Christian perspective things should be getting worse towards the end of history - but children's rights, and minority rights, and workers' rights are actually getting better.

But are they globally? Dickens wrote of children being forced into the mines in the 19th century, and as the capitalist elite congratualtes itself, children in the industrializing world have similar childhoods to "David Copperfield" or "Oliver Twist".