reply to post by LittleSecret
Sorry, the link to the searchable Qur'an wouldn't work. It requires Flash, and I've disabled Flash because of hacker issues. I had to do it the
This is one of those cases where having the Qur'an in chronological order, together with a slight knowledge of the historical context, will reveal
more information. Because of that, I'll present the verses in their (rough) chronological order, and reference sura and verse, so you can re-arrange
them to your liking. In keeping with your request that quotes be from the Qur'an itself, I've tried to stay with that, and leave out the hadith, and
other writings. However, the hadith had to be referenced to ascertain the chronological order, but I've tried not to directly reference them.
Now, in the early years of Mohammed's mission, he was a prosperous merchant, and a respected man. After the beginnings of his revelations, and when
he started preaching islam, the merchants of Makkah more or less turned on him. It got so bad, that it eventually reached the point that neither he
nor the muslims (still a pretty small number) were allowed to worship at the Ka'aba. Why they (adherents of a monotheistic religion) wanted to
worship at the Ka'aba, I don't quite get, since it was at the time a polytheistic shrine, housing something like 360 idols. But I digress. At that
time, while muslim numbers were vanishingly small, and a far more numerous polytheist community was arrayed against them, Mohammed claimed to have
received these revelations:
“... We have not sent thee to be a disposer of their affairs for them.” -Sura 17:54
"Say [O Mohammed]: "O men! I am but a plain warner [sent by God] unto you!" -Sura 22:49
“Repel evil with that which is best ... We are well acquainted with the things they say. And say, ‘O my Lord! I seek refuge with thee from
the suggestions of the evil ones. And I seek refuge with thee of my Lord, lest they should come near me’” -Sura 23:96
"Say thou [o Prophet] 'knowledge thereof rests with God alone: and I am only a plain warner.'" -Sura 67:26
We see here an apparently peaceful demeanor. I'm sure Mohammed was plenty ticked off that he was disallowed access to the Ka'aba, but survival logic
dictated that he get along as well as possible with the greater numbers arrayed against him, so he chose the peaceful path at that point.
Later, after the Hegira in 622 AD, we see a slight change, a modification in demeanor, towards what was thought of as "defensive warfare". These
verses, from the early part of the Medina period, illustrate that change:
Say to the unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from unbelief), their past would be forgiven them, but if they persist, the punishment of those
before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and
faith in God altogether and everywhere. But if they cease, verily God doth see all that they do. If they refuse, be sure that God is your protector
– the best to protect and the best to help. And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to God, –
and to the Apostle, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, – If you do believe in God and in the revelation we sent down to
our servant on the day of testing, day of the meeting of the two forces. For God hath power over all things.
Remember ye were on the hither side of the valley, and they on the farther side, and the caravan on the lower ground than ye. Even if ye had made
a mutual appointment to meet, ye could certainly have failed in the appointment, but (thus ye met), that God might accomplish a matter already
enacted, that those who died might die after a clear sign (had been given), and those who lived might live after a clear sign (had been given). And
verily God is He who heareth and knoweth (all things). -Suras 8:38-42
"Fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression" refers, of course, to the oppressive Meccans, who disallowed the muslims access to the
Ka'aba. The part about "and there prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere" shows a much wider, more ambitious agenda, in
demanding "justice and faith in God ALTOGETHER and EVERYWHERE." Note that this portion is no longer constrained to just the Meccans.
He said "altogether and everywhere".
Sura 8:67-69 says:
"It is not fitting for an Apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he had thoroughly subdued the land.”
Thoroughly subdued the land. Sounds a lot like aspirations of conquest to me...
After his conquest of Makkah in 630 AD, when he had a large enough body of fighters to impose his will wherever he wished, the revelations change yet
again, to reflect that newfound strength, and reaffirm his old resolve:
" A (declaration) of immunity from God and His Apostle, to those of the pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances. Go ye, then, for
four months backwards and forwards (as ye will) throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate God (by your falsehood), but that God will
cover with shame those who reject Him. And an announcement from God and His Apostle, to the people (assembled) on the day of the great pilgrimage –
that God and His Apostle dissolve (treaty) obligations to the pagans. If, then ye repent, it were best for you. But if ye turn away, know ye that ye
cannot frustrate God. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject faith. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those pagans with whom ye
have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to
the end of their term, for God loveth the righteous. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and
seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice
regular charity, then open the way for them." -Sura 9:1-6
Which demonstrates an offensive war to subdue the pagans. Note that there was nothing defensive about it any more.
This was also extended to the People of the Book:
" Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor
acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book [Bible], until they pay the jizya with willing submission, feel
themselves subdued. Jews call Uzair [Ezra] a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the Son of God ... God’s curse be on them; how they are
deluded away from truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the
son of Mary. Yet they are commanded to worship but One God. -Sura 9:29-31
Note how Mohammed claims the right to wage offensive warfare on the People of the Book, because he didn't get to define the tenents of their
religion. They had to be subjugated under islam, and be forced to pay the tribute tax, and "feel themselves subdued".
I had more, such as the 624 AD war on the banu Quaynuqa tribe of jews, the 627 massacre of the banu Qurayza jews, and the 628 attack on the jews of
Khaybar, which established the practice of dhimmitude, all during the Medina period, but those are out of the hadith, so I won't quote them directly,
in keeping within your constraints.
All in all, I think I've presented enough from the Qur'an itself to establish that yes, the subjugation of the People of the Book under islamic rule
is called for in the Qur'an itself, per my original assertion, and it should be sufficient to answer your question presented here:
OK let's start from subjugation of the people of the book under Islamic rule.
Let's start with a question:
Is this rule in the Quran?
After this we go to other issues.
What's the next issue you want to go on to?
Edit: to fix fouled /ex tag.
[edit on 2010/7/8 by nenothtu]