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The bizarre errors of the Apocalypse

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posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 03:53 AM
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I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.


(The above quote is from Revelation 22:18f)

The number of the beast in the oldest known remaining manuscripts of the Apocalypse of John is the number 616, not 666 as it is written now. The original book was also written in Hebrew/Aramaic, like most of the other non-Paulian texts in NT, while the oldest remaining manuscripts are all written in Greek and Latin, hence they are translated copies and nearly each of them contains quite intriguing and rather interesting typos and errors. And I believe that some, if not all, have been put in deliberately.

One example: Between chapters 12 and 13 some copies say: "And it (the Dragon/Satan) stood upon the sand by the shore". Others have: "And I (John the Revelatior) stood upon the sand by the shore".

As you see, editing a single word turns the whole scenario upside down. The same goes with the 616 and 666 thingy, and quite a few more, and I believe the reason why the early church changed 616 into 666 would be the following: Yeshuah/Jesjuah (Heb.: Jod [10] Sjin [300] Vav [6] Ajin [70] [gematria sum: 386]) is the name of the Lord transliterated from Hebrew into Roman letters like we would write it in nearly any Western language. However, the name Yeshua, if you translate it -- instead of transliterating it -- into Latin it becoms Jesvs/Jesus. If you take the Hebrew numeric value of the Latin name Jesus you get 616 [Heb.: Jod [10] Niqqud [0] Sjin [300] Vav [6] Sjin [300] [gematria sum: 616]. My theory is, that when the Roman Church realised this, they edited it out of the text and put in the pyramid number 666, which also is the sum of the six first Roman numerals (I+V+X+L+C+D=666), and also the Gematria sum of "Emperor Nero" written in Hebro-Aramaic which becomes NRVN KSR or Nun [50] Resj [200] Vav [6] Nun [50] Kaf [100] Sjin [300] Resj [200] [Gematria sum: 666]. Interestingly, if you leave out the Nun in the end of Nero in in Hebrew: NRV KSR (instead of NRVN KSR), the gematria sum becomes 616. So like you see, editing out a single letter turns the sum of Emperor Nero in Aramaic from 666 into 616, so it follows the same pattern as the above mentioned "errors" of the Apocalypse.

Seeing how the possible implications of these typos and errors are quite sinister, I believe they are the result of some extremely clever word-play. What if the early Roman church financed the copies we own today by dueling or negotiating with the Roman empire's secular and/or pagan leaders in some game where the texts were edited this way until the Romans would agree upon the texts that would become the fundament of the new Roman world religion? But the question will always remain: Where is the original Apocalypse, written in Aramaic, by Jochannan the Revelator? And what was originally written there. My guess is that when the angel steps down from Heaven in chapter 10, and hands the prophet a small book tasting like honey, but which turns bitter in the stomac, this book is a copy of the original Apocalypse, clean, and without errors.

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Edited quote in the beginning of this thread


[edit on 4/7/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]




posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 




One example: Between chapters 12 and 13 some copies say: "And it (the Dragon/Satan) stood upon the sand by the shore". Others have: "And I (John the Revelatior) stood upon the sand by the shore".

and which version made it into the "official" bible ? sorry i am not bible-proof at all. or are there different versions of the bible, like there are so many different churches and christian communities ?



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:31 AM
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I like how Pyros Drakon was turned into Red Dragon.

Pyros isn't red, its fire. Should have been translated as Fiery dragon. Kind of reminds me of Seraphs.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by icepack
and which version made it into the "official" bible ? sorry i am not bible-proof at all. or are there different versions of the bible, like there are so many different churches and christian communities ?


There are thousands of different versions of the books of the Bible, either handwritten or later printed, and like I said in my OP, there are typos and errors in nearly all of them.

However nearly 2000+ years of developing concensus, bible scholars agree on certain ways to reprint the text. But every version of the Bible is different, just compare the KJV and the NIV. They are completely different, letters, words, even whole verses and paragraphs have been added or deleted, changed or misspelled. And they have made damn sure to destroy the originals, since during the first few centuries Christians were heavily persecuted, and no known NT book in Aramaic exists to this day, but we know they existed, for extrabiblical sources discribe them.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


The Aramaic originals of the NT are probably squirreled away in the dark depths of the Vatacan, where prying eyes aren't allowed.

Then of course there's the whole Aramaic primacy debate to contend with as well. There are two camps:

The first contend the Apostles wrote in Koine Greek. The second in Aramaic.



[edit on 7/4/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


They're probably squirreled away in the dark depths of the Vatacan, where prying eyes aren't allowed.


They are not too keen on things messing up their Nicene Creed and doctrine of the Trinity. It would make a huge mess.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



There are thousands of different versions of the books of the Bible, either handwritten or later printed

well, i would say, let the best one win. the question is how to define "best one", best in the interest of human beings and/or the truth.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I like how Pyros Drakon was turned into Red Dragon.


Pyros is also the name of a colour.


Pyros isn't red, its fire. Should have been translated as Fiery dragon. Kind of reminds me of Seraphs.


Though Pyr and Pyros is also the name of an orange-reddish colour pigment/shade used in painting, it does generally speaking mean Fire like you point out. And you are absolutely correct, Gr. "δράκων μέγας πυρρὸς" means Great Fiery Dragon or lit. Dragon Great Fiery. I have my own interpretation in my avatar subtitle. Pisces Fire Dragon.

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


As far as I can remember Pyros/Purros is the name of the base layer of paint the Renneisance artists painted the sky with. First a layer of Purros, and then the rest of the sky was painted on top of it, blue, white, yellow, red etc. This was in order to give the sky a more natural and realistic look, and helped produce the "lighting" these artists became so reknown for. This is probably also the reason behind the Dante-ish idea that the first layer of Heaven is fire, and apparently that is the abode of the Devil, and how they explained that sometimes fireballs sometimes came flying through the air from space. The Earth was a flat, round plain, with a dome above it with a multilayered heaven, and below was Hell, also multi-layered.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I like how Pyros Drakon was turned into Red Dragon.

Pyros isn't red, its fire. Should have been translated as Fiery dragon. Kind of reminds me of Seraphs.


And "fiery dragon" is a metaphor for an errupting volcano. In the Old Testament, god "speaks" through volcanic activities. The mountain Moses climbed was a volcano; this is why no one was allowed to come near it or they would die. King David prayed to the volcano. It is said many times that god lives in the dark clouds.

If you want to know what the future plans are for this world, it's not in "John" of Revelation. Check out "Saint-Simon".




[edit on 4-7-2010 by Alethea]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 


I hope you don't mean Simon Magus or his followers the Gnostic Simonians.

According to his supposed writings, he described G-d as a fire, the first principle, and indefinite power.

Here's a big quote from Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies, book VI, Chapter IV.

Now Simon, both foolishly and knavishly paraphrasing the law of Moses, makes his statements (in the manner following): For when Moses asserts that “God is a burning and consuming fire,” Deuteronomy 4:24 taking what is said by Moses not in its correct sense, he affirms that fire is the originating principle of the universe. (But Simon) does not consider what the statement is which is made, namely, that it is not that God is a fire, but a burning and consuming fire, (thereby) not only putting a violent sense upon the actual law of Moses, but even plagiarizing from Heraclitus the Obscure. And Simon denominates the originating principle of the universe an indefinite power, expressing himself thus: “This is the treatise of a revelation of (the) voice and name (recognisable) by means of intellectual apprehension of the Great Indefinite Power. Wherefore it will be sealed, (and) kept secret, (and) hid, (and) will repose in the habitation, at the foundation of which lies the root of all things.” And he asserts that this man who is born of blood is (the aforesaid) habitation, and that in him resides an indefinite power, which he affirms to be the root of the universe.

Now the indefinite power which is fire, constitutes, according to Simon, not any uncompounded (essence, in conformity with the opinion of those who) assert that the four elements are simple, and who have (therefore) likewise imagined that fire, (which is one of the four,) is simple. But (this is far from being the case): for there is, (he maintains,) a certain twofold nature of fire; and of this twofold (nature) he denominates one part a something secret, and another a something manifest, and that the secret are hidden in the manifest portions of the fire, and that the manifest portions of the fire derive their being from its secret (portions). This, however, is what Aristotle denominates by (the expressions) “potentiality” and “energy,” or (what) Plato (styles) “intelligible” and “sensible.” And the manifest portion of the fire comprises all things in itself, whatsoever any one might discern, or even whatever objects of the visible creation he may happen to overlook. But the entire secret (portion of the fire) which one may discern is cognised by intellect, and evades the power of the senses; or one fails to observe it, from want of a capacity for that particular sort of perception. In general, however, inasmuch as all existing things fall under the categories, namely, of what are objects of Sense, and what are objects of Intellect, and as for the denomination of these (Simon) employs the terms secret and manifest; it may, (I say, in general,) be affirmed that the fire, (I mean) the super-celestial (fire), is a treasure, as it were a large tree, just such a one as in a dream was seen by Nabuchodonosor, out of which all flesh is nourished. And the manifest portion of the fire he regards as the stem, the branches, the leaves, (and) the external rind which overlaps them. All these (appendages), he says, of the Great Tree being kindled, are made to disappear by reason of the blaze of the all-devouring fire. The fruit, however, of the tree, when it is fully grown, and has received its own form, is deposited in a granary, not (flung) into the fire. For, he says, the fruit has been produced for the purpose of being laid in the storehouse, whereas the chaff that it may be delivered over to the fire. (Now the chaff) is stem, (and is) generated not for its own sake, but for that of the fruit.


I assume your thinking of the works of the Sethians, Ophites, and Cainites gnostic sects and not Simon Magus.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 


When the volcano erupted on Iceland not far back, water in theglaciers around the volcano melted and rivers of water flowed from the volcano. Compare this with Revelation 12:5:

Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


There were two apostles among the original twelve whose name was Simon. Firstly Simon with the nickname Kefas or Peter, and secondly Simon "the Zealot". Some argue that the Zealots were a militant Jewish terror organisation fighting the Romans.

Simon Magus, or Simon the Sorcerer was a character from Rome, and Simon Peters arch enemy. Magus was killed when he fell from the sky in a flying contest between the two according to Acts of Peter (I think), and afterwards Peter flew safely over Rome to show he was the true apostle Simon.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


The earth swallows the river


And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth


So you think the War in Heaven just happened, the Church is in Iceland, and Satan melted the ice to drown the Church in Iceland? Lets look at it in context.


1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth: and was in pain to be delivered.
3 And there was seen another sign in heaven. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and on his heads seven diadems.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered: that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to G-d and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by G-d, that there they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days.

7 And there was a great battle in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought, and his angels.
8 And they prevailed not: neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world. And he was cast unto the earth: and his angels were thrown down with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our G-d and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our G-d day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death.
12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child.
14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert, unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.
16 And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of G-d and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.''


I don't think that has anything to do with Iceland.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


The earth swallows the river


And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth


So you think the War in Heaven just happened, the Church is in Iceland, and Satan melted the ice to drown the Church in Iceland?


No, not nessasarily the Iceland volcano, but a similar event. But of course it is a possibility. The wings of the eagle would be some kind of plane or helicopter in my opinion, so some kind of air-lift evacuation I suppose, but I don't know, I haven't looked into it that well.

Also, when I was a kid, we used to chill out beside a small lake, almost like a pond in front of the excess water pipe connected to a local hydro-power plant. Every now and then there would come great amounts of water from the pipe, which turned the small pond into a river and it basically was dangerous as hell bathing there, but some of us did, and it could have ended terribly wrong sometimes. But you know, boys will be boys.


I don't think that has anything to do with Iceland.


Me neither, but like I said, it might be a similar scenario.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


If its the Apocalypse of Peter, it has some really bizarre stuff in it.

Then there is the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


To me it could be flooding, but the water may not be water.

The water may symbolize something, like masses of people.



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


No I believe it is from a manuscript called "Acts of Peter", It was found not long ago in some Italian church library, I think. Give me a few and I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: www.earlychristianwritings.com...

Acts of peter. Go to chapter 31 onwards to read the tale.

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


There is also Simon the Leper. But more importantly, we have the Simon who in the Koran was killed instead of "Issa", or our Christ. He appears in the Gospel as a bystander and a "good Samaritan" helping Jesjuah carrying the crossbeam. And the Koran may very well be correct, for the famous scene where Pilate gives the mob a choice between "Jesus" and "Barrabas", our books do not do a very good job at telling the story correctly, or they leave out some lit. speaking crucial details. Like how "Barrabas" first name was also Jesjuah, and how Barrabas, is in fact "bar-Abbas", giving the complete name "Jesjuah bar-Abbas" or "Jesjuah son of the Father".

Does anyone of you guys believe the Koran version, that Simon of Kyrene died in Jesjuah's place, and that Jesjuah was set free under the name Jesjuah bar-Abbas and lived to be a 120 years old?

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Jul, 4 2010 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.




What happens if I took away some words/ or added some, and you read it, where will you be?



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