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The Atheists Nightmare

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Sorry for my late response!

Thanks for replying!


Sure. When I stand, I realize that it is by the grace of God. When I feel love, it is by the grace of God. Everything I experience is by the grace of God.


Why do you give God credit for these things?

In my own opinion, I give natural reasoning credit. when I stand, I realize that I can only do so because of so many years of evolution. When I feel love, I realize I can only do so for the same reason.

Kind regards

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Hitotsumami]


I give God credit because He is the reason. The same way you feel about evolution is the same way I feel about God. Evolution has never been proven. Yet people believe it because it makes sense to them. Proof is in the eye of the beholder.




posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 



[edit on 11-7-2010 by Blue_Mage]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Sorry for my late response!

Thanks for replying!


Sure. When I stand, I realize that it is by the grace of God. When I feel love, it is by the grace of God. Everything I experience is by the grace of God.


Why do you give God credit for these things?

In my own opinion, I give natural reasoning credit. when I stand, I realize that I can only do so because of so many years of evolution. When I feel love, I realize I can only do so for the same reason.

Kind regards

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Hitotsumami]


I give God credit because He is the reason. The same way you feel about evolution is the same way I feel about God. Evolution has never been proven. Yet people believe it because it makes sense to them. Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

Evolution has been proven.
We've seen the speed of evolution in lower life forms such as bacteria.
But I'm sure you'll just consider that micro-evolution and blow it off, because small things never add up to big changes.
What hasn't been proven is the mechanism behind evolution, be it survival of the fittest, drift theory, etc.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hippomchippo]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


I stand corrected.Since you insist there is no God, please explain why (if God and the Bible supposedly are nothing more than superstition) more than 300 Bible prophecies have already come true! Explain how Israel became a nation after wondering about the nations for 2000 yrs and that it happened in one day EXACTLY as Isaiah prophesied more than 2000 yrs ago.A lot of them that have come true in the last 50 years! FYI there are just a few more Bible prophecies to be fulfilled. One of those is
happening even as we speak. Then what will be will be. What's coming isn't going to be good.



[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Care to list them and we'll debate them? I believe the Quran. The Bible is more crooked to me.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


I stand corrected.Since you insist there is no God, please explain why (if God and the Bible supposedly are nothing more than superstition) more than 300 Bible prophecies have already come true! Explain how Israel became a nation after wonder about the nations for 2000 yrs again and that it happened in one day EXACTLY as Isaiah prophesied more than 2000 yrs ago.A lot of them that have come true in the last 50 years! FYI there are just a few more Bible prophecies to be fulfilled. One of those is
happening even as we speak. Then what will be will be. What's coming isn't going to be good.


Whenever you're asked to provide that list of 300 prophecies all you do is tell people to read the bible.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 





I give God credit because He is the reason.


No offense, but that's not a reason or proof in any way. It's exactly why it's so hard to argue with a lot of religious people. Answers like that lack any logic or rationality...

Oh, and just fyi, evolution is a fact...even if we haven't traced it all the way back to before the big bang. Evolution got soooooo much evidence and proof behind it compared to ANY religion, I can't but laugh when a religious person claims evolution is the same as religion. Just shows how little they know about evolution.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by randyvs
 


Ah, my mind is not made up! I shall quote something I said:


In my own opinion


Opinions are not facts and can change when evidence is presented. If you have evidence that the things previously stated should be contributed to God rather than any natural cause, I would love to hear them so that I can change my opinion to match reality!

Kind regards


Evidence is a tricky thing. You said something earlier about natural reasoning. That is a very peculiar word. Natural. Nature. Lets look at that word.

Pronunciation: \ˈna-chə-rəl, ˈnach-rəl\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French naturel, from Latin naturalis of nature, from natura nature
Date: 14th century

1 : based on an inherent sense of right and wrong

2 a : being in accordance with or determined by nature b : having or constituting a classification based on features existing in nature

3 a (1) : begotten as distinguished from adopted; also : legitimate (2) : being a relation by actual consanguinity as distinguished from adoption b : illegitimate

4 : having an essential relation with someone or something : following from the nature of the one in question

5 : implanted or being as if implanted by nature : seemingly inborn

6 : of or relating to nature as an object of study and research

7 : having a specified character by nature

8 a : occurring in conformity with the ordinary course of nature : not marvelous or supernatural b : formulated by human reason alone rather than revelation c : having a normal or usual character

9 : possessing or exhibiting the higher qualities (as kindliness and affection) of human nature

10 a : growing without human care; also : not cultivated b : existing in or produced by nature : not artificial c : relating to or being natural food

11 a : being in a state of nature without spiritual enlightenment : unregenerate b : living in or as if in a state of nature untouched by the influences of civilization and society

12 a : having a physical or real existence as contrasted with one that is spiritual, intellectual, or fictitious b : of, relating to, or operating in the physical as opposed to the spiritual world

13 a : closely resembling an original : true to nature b : marked by easy simplicity and freedom from artificiality, affectation, or constraint c : having a form or appearance found in nature

14 a : having neither flats nor sharps b : being neither sharp nor flat c : having the pitch modified by the natural sign

15 : of an off-white or beige color

www.merriam-webster.com...

Which definition, if any of these, did you mean when you used the term Natural?



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


I stand corrected.Since you insist there is no God, please explain why (if God and the Bible supposedly are nothing more than superstition) more than 300 Bible prophecies have already come true! Explain how Israel became a nation after wondering about the nations for 2000 yrs and that it happened in one day EXACTLY as Isaiah prophesied more than 2000 yrs ago.A lot of them that have come true in the last 50 years! FYI there are just a few more Bible prophecies to be fulfilled. One of those is
happening even as we speak. Then what will be will be. What's coming isn't going to be good.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]


Israel wasn't created in one day!! It was preceded by long, and tough negotiations. Of course the country itself was created in one day once they ratified the constitution...doesn't take long, just requires signatures. In fact, all countries (or at least the large majority) where created in a day because it takes less than a day to sign the constitution.

Making vague predictions that then come within 2k years isn't a great accomplishment. I could make the prophecy that "the 2 largest powers on the planet will fight eachother in the future"...and guess what, if you wait long enough, it's very likely to happen. It's the same concept "mind readers" and other tricksters use.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Care to list them and we'll debate them? I believe the Quran. The Bible is more crooked to me.
reply to post by Blue_Mage
 


I forgot to mention no week arguements



Israel wasn't created in one day!! It was preceded by long, and tough negotiations. Of course the country itself was created in one day once they ratified the constitution...doesn't take long, just requires signatures. In fact, all countries (or at least the large majority) where created in a day because it takes less than a day to sign the constitution.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Care to list them and we'll debate them? I believe the Quran. The Bible is more crooked to me.
reply to post by Blue_Mage
 


The first one is wait'in on ya. You need formalities ?
Strike it down. The Koran doesn't begin to compare to the Bible that's my opinion.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Please list them in order of date to your liking.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs



Care to list them and we'll debate them? I believe the Quran. The Bible is more crooked to me.
reply to post by Blue_Mage
 


The first one is wait'in on ya. You ned formalities ?

You have a fantastic way of ignoring questions.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Conclusion
 





I give God credit because He is the reason.


No offense, but that's not a reason or proof in any way. It's exactly why it's so hard to argue with a lot of religious people. Answers like that lack any logic or rationality...

Oh, and just fyi, evolution is a fact...even if we haven't traced it all the way back to before the big bang. Evolution got soooooo much evidence and proof behind it compared to ANY religion, I can't but laugh when a religious person claims evolution is the same as religion. Just shows how little they know about evolution.


As I have stated before, proof is in the eye of the beholder.

So you think evolution is a fact? Okay. Has anyone ever observed a species actually changing into another species?

Edited to add. I never said I knew much about evolution. I figure I know as much about evolution as you know about Christ.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Conclusion]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Here we go again


Again, proof isn't in the eye of the beholder!! If you can prove something, others can test it and verify it. You can TEST evolution because we have fossils, carbon dating, and a ton of other evidence. Of course no one has ever witnessed one species changing into another, if you think that happens in a time scale you can "observe" yourself, your understanding of evolution is very poor. But we have fossil proof and plenty of evidence to support evolution.

The same can't be said about religions



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Conclusion
 





I give God credit because He is the reason.


No offense, but that's not a reason or proof in any way. It's exactly why it's so hard to argue with a lot of religious people. Answers like that lack any logic or rationality...

Oh, and just fyi, evolution is a fact...even if we haven't traced it all the way back to before the big bang. Evolution got soooooo much evidence and proof behind it compared to ANY religion, I can't but laugh when a religious person claims evolution is the same as religion. Just shows how little they know about evolution.


As I have stated before, proof is in the eye of the beholder.

So you think evolution is a fact? Okay. Has anyone ever observed a species actually changing into another species?

Yes, several species of plants have been observed to change species.
But I guess that's not good enough right? You want millions of years of evolution in a few days.
Guess what? It doesn't happen that way, evolution takes way to long for it to be that simple, that's why we don't have speciation in the case of complex animals.
Why not explain why, by fossil records, we have simple cellular organisms, which slowly progress to multicellular, then to plants and animals, was God warming up?

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hippomchippo]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Here we go again


Again, proof isn't in the eye of the beholder!! If you can prove something, others can test it and verify it. You can TEST evolution because we have fossils, carbon dating, and a ton of other evidence. Of course no one has ever witnessed one species changing into another, if you think that happens in a time scale you can "observe" yourself, your understanding of evolution is very poor. But we have fossil proof and plenty of evidence to support evolution.

The same can't be said about religions




Then surely scientist must know just how many base pair of DNA change over a generation. Do you know?

Edited to add Fossils have no transitional forms... i.e. the missing link.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Conclusion]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Thank you for the post, very interesting!

Can you tell me why you think the reasoning evolution puts forward is false? I know this is a large question, but you can just give small examples, if you want.


Originally posted by randyvs


Thank you for the reply!


Since you insist there is no God


I'm not insisting there is no God. I am just insisting that I have no seen proof of one.


Explain how Israel became a nation after wondering about the nations for 2000 yrs and that it happened in one day EXACTLY as Isaiah prophesied more than 2000 yrs ago.


I don't know! Maybe a coincidence, or maybe it was predetermined to be! I am unsure. For proof that the Bible is true, I would need more than a single prophecy.

I did go and search like you mentioned before. The first site that appeared didn't have any real list that I could find. The second site was one that showed prophecies and promises have been shown to be false.

Can you find a good source or list some more yourself? I am having trouble locating a good resource, other than the Bible.

If this is too much trouble for you, I will keep searching myself!

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Here we go again


Again, proof isn't in the eye of the beholder!! If you can prove something, others can test it and verify it. You can TEST evolution because we have fossils, carbon dating, and a ton of other evidence. Of course no one has ever witnessed one species changing into another, if you think that happens in a time scale you can "observe" yourself, your understanding of evolution is very poor. But we have fossil proof and plenty of evidence to support evolution.

The same can't be said about religions




Then surely scientist must know just how many base pair of DNA change over a generation. Do you know?

Typical rates of mutation are between 10-10 and 10-12 mutations per base pair of DNA per generation.
Source is www.talkorigins.org...
I'm sure you'll find an excuse to ignore this information though.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hippomchippo]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Mage
 


Just take care of the first one and I'll make the effort K? Otherwise
no I don't care to.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]




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