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The Atheists Nightmare

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by HSDA83
 





"Is man an unimportant bit of dust on an unimportant planet in an unimportant galaxy somewhere in the vastness of space? No! The necessity to produce life lies at the center of the universe's whole machinery and design.....Slight variations in physical laws such as gravity or electromagnetism would make life impossible."


Very nice. I think one of the most important things anyone could know .
Is the elites absolutly know God exists. They see him as evil because in
his kingdom their status will be gone and even most of them will be gone.
There is evidence of this age being prepared for. The dependence upon oil
everything. good post.

When the Bible refers to the wicked they are whom, right along with the demons they believe they control, they are the ones God is refering to.
Because they hate God and they decieve many.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]




posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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What about this Randy. Every living thing on this planet works towards one goal, survival. As far as we know humans are the only species to incorporate a survival plan after death. To come up with the view that we do not actually die, but simply change from one state of being into another is actually quiet remarkable. Our ancestors all over the world, from ancient to the present, have held these beliefs.

Now we must ask ourselves what would cause these beliefs. Could anyone, without physical proof, accept these beliefs as if they are real? According to an Atheist, no. According to spiritual people yes.

But as we have all seen with science, there are quiet a few theories that require no physical proof at all to garner establishment. Even what science calls Laws seem to contradict themselves as with the Big Bang. Take the first law of motion for instance.

An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

Then what set off the big bang.

Of course people say that the laws didn't come into effect till after the big bang, but we both know that is just an assumption.

They want us to believe that a singularity popped into existence from nothing. I think we both know that could not happen either because if nothing existed how could something just pop into existence like magic? They want to point out that in quantum mechanics particles pop into and out of existence. That may be true, but if the laws are not in place till after the big bang, which they claim, then it also makes that assumption null and void.

So going either way, religious or scientific, you have to have a belief that it happened in a way that, with our current understanding, we would term as magical.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 





They want us to believe that a singularity popped into existence from nothing. I think we both know that could not happen either because if nothing existed how could something just pop into existence like magic? They want to point out that in quantum mechanics particles pop into and out of existence. That may be true, but if the laws are not in place till after the big bang, which they claim, then it also makes that assumption null and void.


Exactly and that is like showing up to a magic show after the performance is over. Then trying to convince yourself that athough all of this magic surely happened.
You will not believe, there was ever a magician there performing .
Simply because you say there is no proof.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Exactly!


Now back then:

Originally posted by randyvs

The thing I can't imagine and am glad I will never have to...
Would be if I was suddenly awakened from that eternal sleep,
by the deafing sound of trumpets blaring loud enough to wake the dead.
Then as an Angel is rushing by my comfortable grave, he pauses and points
the way to Judgement day.
This after a long life denying God because I was duped by a fad. Atheism.
The fool says," there is no God" then comes death. then judgement.


Now let me sketch a parallel on this nightmare on a diff. dream:

1) God doesn't exist:
a. Believer lives, dies, eternal death.
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, same path.

2) God exists:
a. Believer lives, dies, judgement day wakes up and he lives eternally in heaven
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, wakes up for judgement just to die again.

Wich one is safer?
And don't come with that reincarnation theory...

[edit on 11-7-2010 by HSDA83]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by HSDA83
 


Very interesting preposition! I believe this is called Pascal's Wager. I believe there is a problem with this, and I hope you'll understand if I try to point them out.

1. It seems there is an assumption of your God is the one that is real. Even if you believe in God, what about the others? What if you're wrong and another is right? It seems the only true safe thing to do is to believe in every religion, and this is impossible.

2. If you only believe because it is safer to believe than to not, I would think the all knowing God would know this. He would know you're only believing to be safe and not believing for any better reason.

If you have more information, I would love to hear it! I'll review it and change my above opinion if the evidence points that I should.

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by HSDA83
 



1) God doesn't exist:
a. Believer lives, dies, eternal death.
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, same path.

2) God exists:
a. Believer lives, dies, judgement day wakes up and he lives eternally in heaven
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, wakes up for judgement just to die again.

Wich one is safer?
And don't come with that reincarnation theory...


Yet we're the ones who are irrational? Why is that ? because we think ahead?



[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by hitotsumami
 


. If you only believe because it is safer to believe than to not, I would think the all knowing God would know this. He would know you're only believing to be safe and not believing for any better reason.


It's like when that word "if " becomes the biggest word in the dictionary.
Pick the Bible up compare it to the book of any other religion. If you don't see it as the best possibility for communication from God then there are variables pertaining to why.

Sorry I got all dissed there for a min.


THERE!

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Bingo!!

Uhhh. I guess thats all I got to say.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


reply to post by Conclusion
 


Hmm, you both did not reply to my two points. I would really like to understand better so I can better prepare myself! I don't want to continue with false knowledge, especially if the correct knowledge is readily available with just a post.

I really would like to understand better! But until then, my two points seem sound.

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by HSDA83
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 

I don't believe anything in this post is supposed to be entertaining, besides the fact of you mentioning a video somewhere else from somebody else in response to someone else, that couldn't find a place in your answer.


Yeah, sorry for expecting you to read through the thread. Actually it was a page posted by Romantic Rebel.


14. Organisms are always getting better

071210 Evolution Hmed2P.Hmedium

While it is a fact that natural selection weeds out unhealthy genes from the gene pool, there are many cases where an imperfect organism has survived. Some examples of this are fungi, sharks, crayfish, and mosses – these have all remained essentially the same over a great period of time. These organisms are all sufficiently adapted to their environment to survive without improvement.

Other taxa have changed a lot, but not necessarily for the better. Some creatures have had their environments changed and their adaptations may not be as well suited to their new situation. Fitness is linked to their environment, not to progress.


15 misconceptions about evolution

I feel pretty bad for having expected you to read this very thread. Obviously my bad.


We can't really talk about atheists nightmares without mentioning all the facts, and that also includes Dimensional analysis, Nondimensionalization, Population biology, Scaling in biology, Complex systems, Evolution and entropy, Self-organized systems, Selection and evolution, and it goes on...


What list? Not one thing you just posted has anything to do with any atheist nightmares. I am not sure why you think evolution and atheism are the same thing but...they are not.


I was an evolutionist and atheist for more than 30 years, I do know exactly what they see with their eyes closed, I had mines closed too... I used to stuty materials from professors at Brown University and others from the New England area, where I reside, and even they're changing their minds on the subject.


What is your native language and what language were the books you "stutied" written in?

What do you mean by "evolutionist?"

Obviously you do not know what they see with their eyes closed because you are still getting wrong what they see with them open.


The thing is, the more you dig into "science", the more obvious it looks, that's why more and more scientists are becoming believers now...


If it makes you feel better to believe that, good for you. While you are busy pretending atheists have a reason to fear judgment day, you might want to check reality out. There is no scientific proof of any god anywhere and you sure have not shown any so there is no need to make stuff up. There are enough "Christians" in this thread making stuff up. It is very unbecoming.



Back to the OP:

So start off with the truth that everyone knows ( There is only one truth) and check yourself, before you wreck yourself.


What can be defined as truth? Where would you find it?
Start off with the foundation, before we can finish up the house...

[edit on 11-7-2010 by HSDA83]


Must be the truth of Zeus, our one true personal savior. Do you have a personal relationship with Zeus? If you do not now, it is not too late. Do you know where you will go when you die? I would hate to be an atheist and have to spend eternity, rotting in a grave, out of the grace and glory of Zeus' perfect love.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 





1. It seems there is an assumption of your God is the one that is real. Even if you believe in God, what about the others? What if you're wrong and another is right? It seems the only true safe thing to do is to believe in every religion, and this is impossible.


I understand what you are saying. That is where faith comes in. Faith in Christ. The witness's he had. The things he said. It's not just a belief. It is a personal relationship that one comes to know. And once anyone experiences it, they are never the same.




2. If you only believe because it is safer to believe than to not, I would think the all knowing God would know this. He would know you're only believing to be safe and not believing for any better reason.


It is okay to come to God in fear because that at least shows wisdom. You cannot fear something that you do not believes exists. In the end the bible says that any who call upon Christ's name will be saved. That simple. That pure. Just believe. I think this song sums up the way I feel for my Savior.



I tried to find a better version of it but nothing on youtube.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Thank you for the kind reply!


I understand what you are saying. That is where faith comes in. Faith in Christ. The witness's he had. The things he said. It's not just a belief. It is a personal relationship that one comes to know. And once anyone experiences it, they are never the same.


Pascal's Wager states that one should believe in God because if one dies and he's real, you're safe, and if he isn't real, then you have lost nothing.

Faith doesn't help you with Pascal's Wager. Why have faith in your God rather than any other? The only way to truly be safe is to have faith in every God, which is impossible.

And just to note, if you do die and God isn't real, I do think you have lost something. You've lost all the time you spent worshiping him when you could have helped another.


It is okay to come to God in fear because that at least shows wisdom. You cannot fear something that you do not believes exists. In the end the bible says that any who call upon Christ's name will be saved. That simple. That pure. Just believe. I think this song sums up the way I feel for my Savior.


Pascal's Wager basically means believe in God so if he's real, you won't go to Hell. I don't think God would like this. He would want to you to come to him through love, and not because you're scared of Hell.

And just to note, I'm not arguing against God, just Pascal's Wager.

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Thank you for the kind reply!


I understand what you are saying. That is where faith comes in. Faith in Christ. The witness's he had. The things he said. It's not just a belief. It is a personal relationship that one comes to know. And once anyone experiences it, they are never the same.


Pascal's Wager states that one should believe in God because if one dies and he's real, you're safe, and if he isn't real, then you have lost nothing.

Faith doesn't help you with Pascal's Wager. Why have faith in your God rather than any other? The only way to truly be safe is to have faith in every God, which is impossible.

And just to note, if you do die and God isn't real, I do think you have lost something. You've lost all the time you spent worshiping him when you could have helped another.


It is okay to come to God in fear because that at least shows wisdom. You cannot fear something that you do not believes exists. In the end the bible says that any who call upon Christ's name will be saved. That simple. That pure. Just believe. I think this song sums up the way I feel for my Savior.


Pascal's Wager basically means believe in God so if he's real, you won't go to Hell. I don't think God would like this. He would want to you to come to him through love, and not because you're scared of Hell.

And just to note, I'm not arguing against God, just Pascal's Wager.

Kind regards


I have never heard of Pascal's wager, but if you do not believe in God I don't think it will help. I stated my response above that you cannot fear something that you do not believe in. To me that would throw Pascal's Wager out of the door. You can only fear something that you know exists. I know I could not believe in something that I did not believe in. That is just how I am though. Maybe another person's perception is different though.

Good insight on it though.

Edit to just point out that one's belief in Christ would also means that one should help one another.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Conclusion]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


I put your reply in my double post there youngster.
I for one do realise that you arn't exactly arguing against God.
You are always more than welcome on any thread of mine .
You are always very respectful and handel yourself nicely.
a little secret Ok. Some times I'm a lil sloooo. Don't tell everybody Ok?
I'm in construction.



Conclusion
I think it would be so cool to know sign language like. Great song Conc.
I'm really starting to feel that for someone to hate Christ. There's
got to be somekind of major malfunction there. I don't see how that's even possible for someone to live today and hate someone who hasn't been here for 2000 yrs.

That's definetly a sign of some issues.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


I put your reply in my double post there youngster.
I for one do realise that you arn't exactly arguing against God.
You are always more than welcome on any thread of mine .
You are always very respectful and handel yourself nicely.
a little secret Ok. Some times I'm a lil sloooo. Don't tell everybody Ok?



You know I was just thinking the same thing. He is a seeker. That is just about as honest as a person can be. I like this kind of atmosphere to reason in. So Hitotsumami, same goes for me.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


The reason I mentioned Pascal's Wager is because that is basically what you stated before:


Now let me sketch a parallel on this nightmare on a diff. dream:

1) God doesn't exist:
a. Believer lives, dies, eternal death.
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, same path.

2) God exists:
a. Believer lives, dies, judgement day wakes up and he lives eternally in heaven
b. Disbeliever lives, dies, wakes up for judgement just to die again.

Wich one is safer?


This IS Pascal's Wager. Very sorry if there was any misunderstanding!

And to respond to your last point:


Edit to just point out that one's belief in Christ would also means that one should help one another.


If Christ never existed, or never told you to be kind to another, would that make you be mean to them?

I would be kind to everyone because I see it as the best possible way to be, and I do not think I require anyone to tell me that.


It's like when that word "if " becomes the biggest word in the dictionary.
Pick the Bible up compare it to the book of any other religion. If you don't see it as the best possibility for communication from God then there are variables pertaining to why.


I'm very sorry I didn't see your response earlier!

Aaah, so you're basically stating that believing in the Christian God is the best possible God to believe in? I'm afraid that if I asked why you think so, the thread would become very derailed, hehe! If you do wish to answer that question, I would like to hear your response.

One other small thing. Even if your God is the most probable God, this does not mean he is the real one.

Kind regards

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Hitotsumami]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Hitotsumami]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


Real one?

Like mentioned before, everyone's born with an urge to worship something, it turned out to be a cow for some indians, the sun for ancient religions even until today, it can be the fire or the water like in some african cults, it can be satan fore many, it can be your car, an actor, does it make them all real gods?
There must be a real one, dont you agree?


[edit on 11-7-2010 by HSDA83]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by HSDA83
 


Thank you for the kind reply!


Like mentioned before, everyone's born with an urge to worship something


Hmm, why do you think so? I was not born with an urge to worship anything. I was born with an urge to eat and drink and stay warm. As I grew older, I developed an urge to learn and discover reality.

Or are you saying only the ancients were born with an urge to worship? Perhaps they worship for the same reason many people do today, because they were taught to by their parents. And perhaps the origins of the religions are an attempt to deal with aspects of reality that was once unexplainable.


There must be a real one, dont you agree?


Hmm, not totally. Another option is that there is not a God at all.

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 





The reason I mentioned Pascal's Wager is because that is basically what you stated before:


I don't think I stated that. I think that was someone else.




If Christ never existed, or never told you to be kind to another, would that make you be mean to them?


No and that's the thing. It not only reinforces it, it proves to me that all of us should be that way. That he wrote it upon our hearts, to know right from wrong.




I would be kind to everyone because I see it as the best possible way to be, and I do not think I require anyone to tell me that.


Yes you automatically know it right? How do you think you know without having to be told it.




I'm very sorry I didn't see your response earlier!


No need to apologize to me. I have made more than my fair share of mistakes. lol




Aaah, so you're basically stating that believing in the Christian God is the best possible God to believe in? I'm afraid that if I asked why you think so, the thread would become very derailed, hehe! If you do wish to answer that question, I would like to hear your response.


No it shouldn't derail. It is from a personal experience that I had. I use to be very much like you. I questioned atheists, christians, anyone I could just to get a better understanding of self and place in this existence. But when my experience happened...lol.. well I just can't do it justice with words. I went from not knowing to knowing in a time frame of, I would say about 10 seconds. I just knew. No one was around me. I was by myself, and I was not thinking on the subject at the time of revelation.




One other small thing. Even if your God is the most probable God, this does not mean he is the real one.


See that is where my search ended. That is where you are on your path. What I learned after that is that when searching with my mind I get confused a lot, but when I search with my heart the answers are more simple.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Hitotsumami
 


The urge to worship you will find on any civilization, or country or tribe anywhere.

Since you had addressed 2 questions earlier, I won't counteract on it but show my point of view:

1) There are indeed, many gods. It's not safe to side with all of them. Like said before, even on the book of genesis 1:1, very first verse of the bible, the word god is in plural

2) If one is a believer, there will be a growth. Knoledge, faith, devotion, all of these will grow. Choosing to be on the safe side will be the first step on this. (didn't the thief choose the safe side at the cross, next to jesus?)
There will always be growth or progress to either side. Don't they have degrees in freemasonry? The jews have it too, satanism, etc.
So there's nothing wrong on making a decision "just to be safe". It's a step, before many others.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by HSDA83]



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