The Atheists Nightmare

From the first time I considered the possibility of our God, it has led me to truths about mankind in general and myself as an individual. I have heard a lot of arguments against the bible, and there are some things that I do not understand either. The evidence for a creator I find all around me. Some people stumble upon a treasure, but others have to search to find it. If you do not search for a treasure, hopefully you are one of the one's that stumble upon it. If you do not stumble upon it, then you will never find it because you do not search for it.

I cannot be one to deny the truth, for I have found the truth. The truth has not led me down an easy path, as most of you who know the truth very well knows. It has, however, secured my victory of this world.

All these catastrophes happening before our eyes is evidence the end is near, at least for someone it is near.

For those of you who believe not, I implore you to at least search, search some more, and continue searching as if your eternal life depends on it. For it just might.

I hope we all meet in the infinite beyond. Laughing and loving one another knowing that Christ is the word of truth.

Great thread Randy. It's another thought to wrap our minds around.

reply to post by Conclusion

I have no doubt, as will emerge later, that this loss of faith in Christian religion and my growing attachment to science have played a dominant part in my scientific career not so much on a day-to-day basis but in the choice of what I have considered interesting and important. I realized early on that it is detailed scientific knowledge which makes certain religious beliefs untenable. A knowledge of the true age of the earth and of the fossil record makes it impossible for any balanced intellect to believe in the literal truth of every part of the Bible in the way that fundamentalists do. And if some of the Bible is manifestly wrong, why should any of the rest of it be accepted automatically? A belief, at the time it was formulated, may not only have appealed to the imagination but also fit well with all that was than known. It can nevertheless be made to appear ridiculous because of facts uncovered later by science. What could be more foolish than to base one's entire view of life on ideas that, however plausible at that time, now appear to be quite erroneous? And what would be more important then to find our true place in the universe by removing one by one these unfortunate vestiges of earlier beliefs? Yet it is clear that some mysteries have still to be explained scientifically. While these remain unexplained, they can serve as an easy refuge for religious superstition. It seemed to me of the first importance to identify these unexplained areas of knowledge and to work toward their scientific understanding whether such explanations would turn out to confirm existing beliefs or to refute them.

Frances Crick
Nobel Prize winner for the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA

reply to post by mr-lizard

Wonder if there's such thing as a christian who can prove god exists without the need to patronise or quote from the bible?

I've decided on you.
You asked in a way I really want to respond to. This is the best I can do to answer you.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


Not proof of the supernatural . . . which, "gods" are. Even if you eliminate the evolutionary model, I could come up with many other explanations that are just as fantastic as an onmipotent, supernatural creator. (Alien intervention; the beetle is not originally of this world; this beetle has the ablity for abstract thought and pyschic-induced genetic adaption, thus enabling it to invent and implement said adaption)

But . . . you, using Occam's Razor, figure . . . a god did it. Mystery solved.

EDIT to ADD: I also have as much proof for my hypothesis, as you do for your god.

[edit on 7/4/10 by solomons path]

reply to post by randyvs


Also . . . Don't you think your god, in his infinite wisdom, would empower humans with such a natural defense technique? After all, think of all of the rapes, kidnappings, and violent acts against children would be prevented if humans were "created" as such. All those evil souls out there and humans have only gods to protect them, while they give "the beasts" natural defenses. Seems more and more that your god gave humans the short end of the stick, where survival is concerned.

reply to post by solomons path

I also have as much proof for my hypothesis, as you do for your god.

All good .
As I stated that's it. As deep as I can dig. Dosn't matter what you think of it. It's that I have done my all . I hope you at least see and understand that, in the best way.

Also . . . Don't you think your god, in his infinite wisdom, would empower humans with such a natural defense technique? After all, think of all of the rapes, kidnappings, and violent acts against children would be prevented if humans were "created" as such. All those evil souls out there and humans have only gods to protect them, while they give "the beasts" natural defenses. Seems more and more that your god gave humans the short end of the stick, where survival is concerned

Um no I really can think of as many reasons why not as you have thought of here. You're just looking from one side of the glass.

edit for grammar

[edit on 4-7-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by randyvs

 

Also . . . Don't you think your god, in his infinite wisdom, would empower humans with such a natural defense technique? After all, think of all of the rapes, kidnappings, and violent acts against children would be prevented if humans were "created" as such. All those evil souls out there and humans have only gods to protect them, while they give "the beasts" natural defenses. Seems more and more that your god gave humans the short end of the stick, where survival is concerned.

well give evolution a chance! jeez these processes take millions of years right. it will just take time for vagina to grow teeth and people to be able to fly and teleport. patience is a virtue.

well give evolution a chance! jeez these processes take millions of years right. it will just take time for vagina to grow teeth and people to be able to fly and teleport. patience is a virtue.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


We must allow evolution an infinite amount of time just to get started. Arthur Eddington.

reply to post by randyvs


Yes . . . we both could probably think of many examples on both sides of that glass; however, you submitted the bombardier beetle as "proof" of your god. I am assuming because you fail to see natural forces at work; therefore, it must be "design". No?

So, while you we can debate your god's reasoning for this adaptation, if indeed designed, the beetle on it's own only points to the marvel of the animal kingdom. Just because you are unsatified with the accepted answer, the evolutionary model, the beetle itself doesn't point to any supernatural entity.

I've included the evolutionary model of the bombardier beetle as a balance to your creationist model . . . so everyone can look through both sides of the glass.


www.talkorigins.org... - evolution of BB

en.wikipedia.org... - evolution of defense

atheists spend more time talking about religion and God than the pope does. if you saw someone obsessed and constantly trying to convince people that santa claus doesn't exist you'd think he's crazy. atheists are afraid so they delude themselves because they can't face reality. their constant denials prove that God exists because something in them is constantly driving them to deny Gods existence. this force doesn't compel them to deny the easter bunny or santa claus but seems fixated on God and attacking the people who follow Him. they have a false sense of intelligence and wisdom because this denial fuels the force inside who in turns lies to them to reinforce their errors. in the end they end up isolated, lost and delusional and life passes them by.

reply to post by solomons path

en.wikipedia.org... - evolution of defense

Well ok I can only accept your weak arguement. It really dosn't suffice the
way, I'm sure, you would like it to. Sorry that's my opinion.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


if you don't believe in God how can He protect you. you chose to live life on your own. the people that rape, steal and murder have chosen the same. it's only makes sense that they will be on a collision course.

reply to post by randomname


I never said I didn't believe in god where'd did you get such an idea? I've posted several times in this thread, what are you referring to?

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by randyvs

 

Also . . . Don't you think your god, in his infinite wisdom, would empower humans with such a natural defense technique? After all, think of all of the rapes, kidnappings, and violent acts against children would be prevented if humans were "created" as such. All those evil souls out there and humans have only gods to protect them, while they give "the beasts" natural defenses. Seems more and more that your god gave humans the short end of the stick, where survival is concerned.

well give evolution a chance! jeez these processes take millions of years right. it will just take time for vagina to grow teeth and people to be able to fly and teleport. patience is a virtue.

In all sincerity there is not enough time for evolution to do what people think it does. Even 50 billion years would not be enough time.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


He typoed.
Thats all.

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by The Endtime Warrior

 

if you don't believe in God how can He protect you. you chose to live life on your own. the people that rape, steal and murder have chosen the same. it's only makes sense that they will be on a collision course.

Actually many rapists, thieves, and murders are Christian. One of the popular things for people to say that every human has a hole, and if it isn't filled with religion, it is filled with drugs, violence etc. I found a webcomic showing a little cartoon guy running through the wind, free, just to make a cool whistling noise through that hole.

Some people are perfectly fine people without religion. More often then not, it is the religious who kill others.

I choose to live life free from something such as a religion. I am a good person not because I fear some omnipotent being, but because I want to be good for the betterment of mankind. I am good so that others may have a good life after me.

reply to post by Hadrian


Exactly. It is funny how he would use the word miracle in any type of description of DNA. It almost reeks of hypocrisy.

reply to post by randyvs


It seems to me you think I offered those links in order to "convince" you or prove there is no supernatural entity. Not so. YOU offered the beetle to a call for proof of the supernatural, without use of scripture. I was just showing that you offered no proof. Proof would be undeniable, or at least self evident.

Besides, this thread of circular arguments is about your "truth" and my "nightmare", right? After all of the great evidence you've provided here, I'm inclined to stick with my nightmare and you can rest easy in knowing the "one true truth".

Peace brother!! Happy 4th!!

reply to post by Phlynx

Actually many rapists, thieves, and murders are Christian.

Hmmm. So what your saying is that they belong to a certain group, but go against all the teachings and laws of that group, are really part of that group?

You will know someone by their actions.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Phlynx

 

Actually many rapists, thieves, and murders are Christian.

Hmmm. So what your saying is that they belong to a certain group, but go against all the teachings and laws of that group, are really part of that group?

You will know someone by their actions.

I should have stated that they proclaim they are Christians. Who decides the qualifications of a Christian anyway?