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Why is sorcery considered so bad by so many?

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posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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Why did God say that sorcery was bad? Was it because it is inherently evil, or is it evil to Him because it gives man another way of gaining power (and possibly not feeling the need to trust in Him alone)? Strangely, a lot of people who aren't even Christians think it is evil or bad.

I started thinking of this because of what I read in the Book of Enoch. (Chapter 7 10Then they [the angels] took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.11And the women conceiving brought forth giants,13When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;14And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.15Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.Chapter 8 1Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.2Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.3Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:4Armers taught the solution of sorcery; 5Barkayal taught the observers of the stars,6Akibeel taught signs;7Tamiel taught astronomy;8And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon,9And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven. reluctant-messenger.com...)

In the Book of Genesis in the Bible there is reference to some of what is in the Book of Enoch. (Genesis 6: 1When men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,2The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair, and they took wives of all they desired and chose.4There were giants on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God lived with the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.5The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human thinking was only evil continually.6And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved at heart.7So the Lord said, I will destroy, blot out, and wipe away mankind, whom I have created from the face of the ground--not only man, [but] the beasts and the creeping things and the birds of the air--for it grieves Me and makes Me regretful that I have made them.
www.biblegateway.com...)

It seems that to Him the reason man became evil, and He felt the need to wipe them out with the flood, is because of being taught these “secrets” by the angels. (Book of Enoch, Chapter 9: 5You have seen what Azazyel has done, how he has taught every species of iniquity upon earth, and has disclosed to the world all the secret things which are done in the heavens.) It doesn't seem right that we are punished for what they apparently taught us. When I was a strict, unbending Christian we were taught that God is Love and we are His children. I don't ever recall being so angry with my children that I wished I never had them and wanted to kill them, let alone actually doing it!

In the Book of Enoch passages, I have a few other questions too. What is the dividing of roots and trees? Is that a reference to herbalism? If so, is practicing herbalism considered witchcraft or sorcery in God's eyes? Why is them teaching us the motion of the moon and signs bad? Or even astronomy for that matter?
I look forward to any and all responses, provided they are intelligently presented and proselytizing is not included. I used to be a Christian and I know all about Jesus and all that. I know that in response to my questions I will be receiving the Christian point of view and the pagan point of view, and maybe even an atheist or two in there. I want to see all sides if I can.

One other thing: Why is the Book of Enoch not included in the Bible if it actually tells us more about God and why He does some of what He does? Who decided to leave it out? Was it ever considered to put it in the Bible at all?




posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:35 AM
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People are scared, and the ptb use the evil thing to keep humans away from gaining any knowledge that may make them open upto things, that the ptb want to control.

Pagan religions are the only real religions, as we are energy, and all religions are based on that.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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True indeed, its sad that we the children the last generations are born in this #ty #ed up world. with war for small stuff, like control... but to Unite the people and go to outer space inner space together is like a fairy tale.. cause you know a good Job and a cute looking wife with a awesome car is so much more on our minds.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
Why did God say that sorcery was bad?


Because it comes from the devil.


Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
One other thing: Why is the Book of Enoch not included in the Bible if it actually tells us more about God and why He does some of what He does? Who decided to leave it out? Was it ever considered to put it in the Bible at all?


There is a consensus amongst scholars that the book of Enoch that we have today does not contain the authentic words of the ancient patriarch Enoch, since he would have lived (based on the chronologies in the Book of Genesis) several thousand years earlier than the first known appearance of the book attributed to him.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 

I think, Biblically, the offence is appealing to a power which is not God. It is simply one of the branches of idolatry. The law in Exodus ch22 v18 is two verses away from "Whoever sacrifices to any god,save to the Lord only, shall be utterly destroyed". In many forms of the time, the power in question was that of the spirits of the dead, which is a very important rival religion.

Sociologically, in societies from the mediaeval Christian world to the modern African one, people have been afraid that power possessed by their neighbours might be used against them.



[edit on 3-7-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


Magic or sorcery is explicitly forbidden to Israel. (or anyone else who enters into covenant with the G-d of Israel)

One of the main reasons for this is the involvement of what G-d defines as "unclean spirits", specifically yidonim and ovoth.

Most ancient forms of magic involved the invocation, evocation, and channeling of "unclean spirits".

G-d on the otherhand didn't want Israel being distracted from Him. You have to understand from G-d's point of view Israel belongs to Him and owe's its survival to Him. So no Idols, no other gods, and no spirits.

His point, was if Israel needed help, invoke Him not these other inferior beings. Incant to Him only and depend on Him only, no one else.

Now for the dividing of roots and trees, G-d doesn't have a problem with herbalism. The problem is with consciousness altering substances. These substances were used as part of the foci in invoking, incanting or channeling other spirits.

This creates another dependency away from G-d. G-d didn't want Israel to depend on potions, elixirs, or ointments to invoke G-d.

The whole signs in the heavens thing, again is a dependency issue. If people are depending on the signs in the heavens instead of G-d, it becomes an issue.

As for the Book of Enoch, it was among the Dead Sea Scrolls and is quoted in the Christian testament. After the Bar Kochba revolt, most messianic writings were decided to not be canon. The Book of Enoch has various messianic features. The Jews didn't want another Bar Kochba or even a Jesus to rise up and start trouble.

I think the issue with the Christians of the time, was that Jesus was being transformed into something else. Many church fathers believed in the authentication of Enoch I, but they also believed in texts such as the Didiache and the Sheperd of Hermas. The issue with the 4th century church was those texts completely flew in the face of the Nicene creed and the doctrine of the Trinity.





[edit on 3/7/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by texastig
 


How do you KNOW it comes from the devil? And which devil are you talking about? There is much scholarly debate about the devil's actual identity and origin.

Also, you said there is a consensus among scholars that the Book of Enoch wasn't written by him. However, what of the fact that there really is no real proof that we can KNOW who wrote the books of the accepted Bible. This link presents that issue very well in my opinion. www.ivpress.com...

Again I ask, who decided what books made it and why?

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Ellie Sagan]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:10 AM
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People consider sorcery to be bad because in sorcery you are not in control of whatever you conjure. You can not control any of it, the entity/energy you summon does not answer to you. It is kind of like the myth of "letting your hands/fingers go whilst in the middle of participating in the Ouija board". Bringing an evil entity into this dimension.

Sorcery is evil, there are more evil entities wanting to come into this realm of existence than there are good spirits. Guess which kind would be standing by awaiting some moron summoning an opening? You guessed it, the evil one.

Magick and Sorcery are very different.

Don't mess around with sorcery, end of story.

[edit on 3/7/2010 by the_denv]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Ah, then what is the difference between magic and sorcery? I always assumed they meant the same thing. I want no part of evil spirits. Thanks for your reply and I agree with you.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I really like your reply. It is well written and easy to understand. It also gave me some new stuff to look up, and it is interesting. I found a jewish website that tells about the ovoth and yidonim thing. I see what you mean.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


Cheers


Yeah same here, I want nothing to do with anything evil.

The difference between Magick and Sorcery is that you can control Magick, but you can not control Sorcery. That is the biggest difference between the two. Magick can be evil if used in an evil way though, with Magick it depends on the Magician weather or not they want it to be good or evil.

With Magick it's about choice.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Magick is still forbidden to Israel though. It doesn't matter if the spirits were controlled, good, angels, saints, ancestors, nature spirits, or egregores (thought forms). The Torah forbids anything that distracts from G-d or causes one to be dependent on things other than G-d.

Theurgy such as the invocation of G-d or incanting to G-d was/is the only thing allowed. Kabbalist theurgy usually falls under this.

If an incantation starts off with the invocation of the four archangels, dragon kings, watchtowers, elements, etc. its off limits to those who have covenant with the G-d of Israel.

Its not a matter if those beings are good or evil. The Tetrad or "The Four" are probably not remotely evil, considering their mission, but the issue is dependency.




[edit on 3/7/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


Sorcery connects to the supernatural world.
The supernatural world also belongs to God.
When you "connect" with a spirit from the
supernatural,you don't know if that spirit being
is good or evil.You also may open a door that
you can't close again.
I would leave the supernatural world alone and
all the ways of entering it.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Nice information. Would you think that the 4 would be the 4 points of the equinox? Something as simple as that is always the answer.

Mamabeth: I totally agree with you that things like the supernatural should be left alone.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


This is off topic.


Traditionally the Four are associated with the cardinal directions and sometimes the elements or the four quarters of the zodiac.

My own personal opinion is that they may represent dimensions or something else far more bizarre(cosmic axis), which I'd rather not digress into in this thread.

If there is another thread more relevant, I'd be happy to continue there.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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I am so pleased to see the responses to this post. I am not so learned in the words of the Bible, the Qur'an, the Torah, or the most infamous Kabbalah, I know what each of these possesses so the message to me is the same.

I only know my own experiences entering the darkest places in my psyche, and the tools that presented themselves along the way.

There is another book, the Magus, this one too I have in the house, magic wands, the Tarot, Runes, and Crystals.

It wasn't until recently that I began to see the truth behind demons/Devil, Satan, Lucifer, Christ, Our Lords, and God. Each of these is a complete and separate entity aside from their numbers. It is not too difficult to know which to side with and what tools can be used in benefit to Spirit without Harm or Intent against another.

A Sorcerer is a manipulator of such things, wielding the Magic. A Shaman is a participant of Spirit, allowing Spirit to be the guiding force in the Magic. We can all talk to God within and we can all talk to the Devil without, when the demon is allowed within then we are doomed to the same banishment the demon will face one day.

I have been slowly releasing myself of the totems, tools, and books that have filled my home over the past half Century. Jewelry was easy to give away but the final items have been very difficult. I could destroy them so no one can view them or use them.

I realize the time is short and it is probably best not to put my items in the hands of someone just starting their journey.

What do others think of this? Do you still have the tools and crafts of such things in your homes? What should be done?

I already know I choose the path of Light and that these things, along with many useless material items, have no place in my life any longer.

Any suggestions besides a Book Burning? Well, I say besides because that is where my thoughts are going at this point.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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Sorcery, and Satan and Bible stories all share something in common with each other: IT IS ALL FICTION!!

Many, many SUPERSTITIOUS, FEARFUL, BRAINWASHED individuals have fallen for these stories as a result of not investigating the origins of these beleifs.

So for those too lazy to research it all, I will summarize the truth for you: ITS ALL FAKE!!!


It all fits in the SAME exact category as Harry Potter stories, the tooth fairy, and the moon being made of cheese. EXACTLY the SAME!!!



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Baloney
 


You won't be saying fake
,when the Lord
returns.You will be trying to hide from Him.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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you guys are too much i mean im open minded and im on ats BUT COME ON PEOPLE!? Sorcery? conjuring up spirits? evil spirits? Summoning demons? ide be more inlcined to take this seirsly if you guys tried to post one BIT OF FACT OR PROOF OR hell even just backing up what you say. But no all i readi s a bunch of storys that sound straight out of harry potter and lord of the rings, this is not what ATS is about, im down for talking about spirits and what not but if your going to just post a far out story atleast back up what you say,



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by R2JEW2
 


I think you missed the point of the OP entirely.

No one is discussing stories or personal accounts. The Paranormal Forum has all of that.

This is a question about the Book of Enoch and why people believe the way they do.



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