Originally posted by LittleSecret
The conflict started due to American proxy games in the region, two oppressive empires fighting each other using countries such as Afghanistan to play
their little game.
Well, of COURSE that was the reason!
I read the KGB intel reports. According to them, it was started because the Soviets instituted a socialist
puppet government, which went for about a year as I recall, and some Afghans (rightfully so, in my mind - I don't much care for socialists either)
killed about a dozen embassy staff by cutting their throats. That gave Russia the pretext to invade, in defense of their socialist "brothers" (the
puppet regime) and the "glorious revolutionary People's Republic".
Are you trying to say the Americans set up the socialists there in "proxy games"? If not, how is it you can blame the Americans for the Soviet
Do you know why the UN was established? It was established to set the rule of their game played, and to avoid any accountability in regards to these
oppressive empires. Heck why do you suppose they hold VETO powers?
Don't really know why the UN was created, and don't really care. The UN is a bunch of impotent wussies. Could neither fight nor negotiate their way
out of a paper bag. A UN 'ruling' and a buck thirty five will get you a large cup of coffee at McDonalds here in the states. Better have the buck
thirty five when you go, though, since the UN ruling alone won't cut it.
The source of fighting is not Taliban, nor Al-Qaeda, nor are they the motivating ideology.
Well, yeah, they are. They're the life of the party there. Take them out of the equation, and the "Empire" has to go away. Nothing left for them to
do but rebuild, and it sounds like you just don't want none of THAT!
Some Afghans are resisting because they have the belief in self defense. Some Afghans are resisting due to complete lack of law and order in the
country, and the F'd up policies implemented and the double standard, and the lies.
Self defense from what? Don't run with the Taliban, and you don't need to worry about getting jumped. Give 'em up, we go away. Pretty simple.
Now, there has ALWAYS been a lack of law and order in Afghanistan. That's just the way the warlords work. Even under the grand Taliban, the warlords
were fighting and tearing things up. Taliban NEVER controlled more than 60%, and usually a good bit less, of the country, and the rest was controlled
either by the Northern Alliance, or the lawless warlords. That's just a fact of life in Afghanistan.
You invade NZ, I'll say again, I'll resist with my last breath, and I will say if my fellow fighters die they will go to heaven, do you know why?
Because of moral up boost, when you are fighting the world's most powerful killing machine who bomb villages and wedding parties, you need loads of
Relax. we ain't gonna invade NZ. They're not hiding bin Laden from us.
Fighters don't go to heaven just for fighting. That's absurd. When the time comes, it won't be enough to say "I killed this many people! Look at
me and let me in!". It might be enough to say "I saved a life", though. One should never mix up his wars and his deities. Any god that's so weak
he can't fight his own battles, and has to have puny humans fight them for him, is too weak a god for me to worry about.
No, fighters fight for their own, and war experience doesn't have much bearing on the afterlife. The most you can hope for is to say "I saved this
life" or "I spared that life", and hope THAT'S enough. Probably ought to have a few more offerings, though.
No not the CIA, the whole government of the empire, they show double standard attitude, use terrorism, invade without any justification etc etc.
The justification in this case was the Taliban harboring our enemies, making themselves targets in the process. No terrorism needed on our part.
Even after USSR was defeated Russia was still in the game, they just changed names and logged back in.
I know. Iran was snoopin' around there, too. So was Pakistani ISI. At least the Russians had the decency to stay across the fence, and just hand
stuff over to the NA.
The Taliban came to power because there was no law and order, little girls and boys were being raped by war lords all around and that is sickening the
Read wikipedia on how the Taliban came to power.
Don't need to read wikipedia. I already know how it came about. The Taliban was inserted from Pakistan by the ISI, who hoped to gain a controlling
interest in the government of Afghanistan thereby. That's right, they were foreigners, at least at the top, before gaining any local recruits for the
bottom. That's why the NA was shoving money into the mouths of dead Taliban on the push to Kabul. You know the customs, and why that was done.
No Afghans suffered because the world empires just won't leave it alone, always meddling in their internal policy.
Yeah, there's ALWAYS been a pretty high standard of living there.
Afghans have done a GREAT job without superpower interference. Actually, I'm
with ya on that. Afghans want to live in mud villages, who am I to help 'em out of it? I guess you're right, the American pullout WAS the right
thing to do back then.
I stand corrected.
The Taliban brought law and order which the Afghans needed after decades of war, and lawlessness. The US brought Afghanistan back to what it was, a
lawless, corrupt, drug lab.
Yeah, they brought law and order around Kabul, and Kandahar, Jalalabad, and a few other places - assuming by "law and order" you mean "constant
executions for trivial things".
The rest of the country, not so much. It was still pretty lawless. All in all, though, if that's the way Afghans like it (and it appears they do),
just give us the Taliban, and you can get right back to killing your own, rape, plunder, murder and pillage. No skin off MY backside if that's what
Once again, there was no resistance in Afghanistan within 4-5 year of invasion, why is that? The Afghans gave the empire a chance, because they were
sick of fighting, but they saw that this empire was no better than the last, actually USSR was much better than this one, although their terrorism was
not any better.
You can always call them back in after you give us the Taliban. I'm sure Najibullah would love to see 'em. Oh, that's right, he don't see much of
anything any more, does he? Still, once we're gone, you can invite 'em over for a nice cup of chai, and I won't care a bit.
There WAS "resistance", but against the Taliban (created by the ISI, by the way, and so 'foreigners'), not "The Empire".
You mean there was invasion, not resistance?
No, I mean RESISTANCE. To the Taliban. That was the whole NA thing. Who was it that had Masud killed again, and why? I don't think it was his poppy
Indeed. Afghanistan has always been "corrupt" by foreign standards, but that really shouldn't apply internally, eh? If you guys are happy with it,
then so am I. Drug production HAS increased, I believe, but the whole story isn't told just by that statement alone. The Taliban was against poppy
growing, until they turned TOWARDS it to fund their war effort.
Somehow, the US and in particular the CIA gets the blame for that. Go figure.
Under the Taliban there was no corruption, this is even compared to foreign standards.
I said corruption by FOREIGN standards, meaning the civilized world. There was PLENTY MUCH corruption under the Taliban. Especially in the areas not
under the Taliban, or the NA.
When the Taliban was in control, drug production was mute, and now that the US is in control Afghanistan became the drug lab of the world, the biggest
More to corruption than just drugs.
For you to twist it and blame Taliban for drug production is absurd.
Of COURSE it is.
Who's making profit from them? Don't give me a wiki, use real sources.
Yes arrogance usually blinds people. You see, Afghans are not invincible, but they have two things.
#2. Unbreakable spirit
Let me know when your god starts twitching triggers. I might even go fight beside him, just to see if he's a better shot, and what he has for
breakfast. Only thing my God ever did for me was get me out alive. I had to do my own fighting.
Afghans have spirit, I'll give you that. They never bothered to develop much else.
America has already tried every trick in the book to win the war in Afghanistan, and it seems it has met with the same answer, FAIL.
You have short books. I have some tricks of my own that would absolutely NOT fail, but I wouldn't try to fight a nice war like they are. Ask the
THE NATO recently tried the same tactic, it failed, that is why Gen. Stanley Mc... was fired.
Nah. He was fired over politics, the same thing that loses most wars, in the end. They shouldn't have hamstrung him to begin with, should have let
him fight it like he really meant to win.
...The resistance denied any accountability.
Of course they did. Classic guerrilla tactic. Same thing went on in Cuba, Nicaragua, China, all over the world.
..., and ofcurse it never worked in Afghanistan because of their experience in WAR.
I know the Afghan experience of war. If it wasn't for the "Empire", they'd be speaking Russian by now.
USSR used very similar tactics throughout the war, failed miserably.
Soviets failed because they let themselves get pinned down to the bases, and buttoned up. US hardware and training did the rest, in Afghan hands.
Cheer up. When the politicians force the US into the same situation, you win!
Otherwise, maybe not.