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A question that is very controversial

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posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


Free will I can speak on.
You have to believe me if you believe in a God that is all powerful.
The God I believe in is all powerful knows all that has been and all that will be.
If you do not feel the same way but you do believe in a God, mine is more powerful than yours and therefore your god is a subgod and therefore not a God.
Now that you know that my God is all powerful and knows what will be, there can be no free will, as he knows how it will end.
Next question, can your God create a stone that is so heavy that even he cannot lift it?
Answer is, I hope I was able to make you question your faith.




posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:04 AM
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typical humans

ignoring your ability to ignore

because of this ability humans think they know everything.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by LurkerMan]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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I was wondering about this and maybe I also kind of stumbled upon the deterministic thing

But the thought process was basically, the result of any decision I make, if it IS up to 'ME', well, what is the 'Me' making the decision, theres certain factors of my personality, and theres my past experience, and the outcome of decisions I have made in the past,
None of those factors, ultimately, were down to me

the moment I made my first decision, the situation which meant I had to make that decision, was not of my doing, it was out of my control, the choice I made, was not of my doing, as I had no experience with which to base my judgement on, and so it was ultimately down to the 'me' that was pre programmed as my personality, the outcome of this decision then formed a memory which may or may not prove to be the basis of further decisions, thus, at no point did 'I' ever actually get a say in this, because every factor which determined the way I responded, was effectively external to my sense of self (which ultimately is an illusion anyway)

so although we appear to make decisions, I would have to say that ultimately we don't really get a choice, because our decisions are just a condition of either the result of what we have decided in the past (which when followed back mean 'we' were simply conditioned by memories through context) or our pre-written 'personality' which then may or may not be altered by experiences which ultimately weren't our choosing either

im not saying thats 'how it is' though, that was just kind of where my brain took me when I pondered it recently



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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i think there is free will, but that you can be "led" by something that has been placed in a way so that you would notice and react accordingly to it. Someone or something who knows your mind (or just the human mind) REALLY well could do a good job of controlling your actions all while staying within the bounds of "free will". But it`s always your choice to go ahead with an action or not to. So even if something were trying to manipulate your every move, they may be successful 80 or 90% of the time but that may be more than enough to accomplish their goals. Then some people may have better "critical thinking skills" and may have more actual freedom than the average people. And perhaps there is a state of being which can be attained where you are never led by the power of persuasion. But that could mean a life in a cave meditating all the time... which doesnt sound all that bad. actually.


 
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posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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There are two "selves" in constant balance within every decision we make - the carnal and the intellectual. The carnal is ruled by instinctive (natural) predetermination, the sort of thing that keeps your cells in line and doing what they're designed to do on behalf of your survival. The intellectual is ruled by your personality, and what you've made of yourself as a thinking, reacting, expressing human being to the moment that decision is made. Between the two, we all strike a balance with each move we make, and it's as relatively free a choice that we make as we unconsciously decide that it'll be.

Environment sets the stage (alliances, physical limitations, relative expediencies, immediate circumstances) and we respond in what we determine, at that instant, is the most appropriate manner - which we may fully realize is not the best possible manner. Keep in mind that depending on the personality we've developed, our best interests may not be what we feel to be the most appropriate result of a given choice, and this is where the personality supercedes the instinct, for good or ill.

We may not be completely free, but we're free enough to be surprising.



posted on Aug, 1 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


The more we think we know about this world, the more we realise that we are left in the dark. I am interested on were this discussion will lead. S&F

In that conversation he said you need a degree like him (in my opinion that was ignorant to say that). Am I not mistaken, but don't you hold a degree with mathematics? Or am I mistaken?


Sorry but I don't have a degree I am not old enough.
But thanks for thinking I am that smart!



And I am not so sure he did have a degree.



posted on Aug, 1 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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I believe in free will and destiny at the same time if that makes any sense.

I believe our purpose is to evolve by expanding our conscious awareness. To open our minds to a bigger picture.

I have noticed that if i dont learn my lesson from certain situations they repeat themselves. The most obvious one is the partners we select. Have you noticed we tend to date a certain type and after awhile you are challenged in the same way you were in previous relationships?

Earth is a consciousness school. We are in grade school. We can move ahead to the next grade or stay behind, that is our choice.

Our free will is that we can decide to ignore these lessons and stay where we currently are in our awareness level, or we can choose to follow our destiny and evolve. It will happen in this life or the next, you only choose when.



posted on Aug, 1 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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At this point I'm pretty sure the answer or truth you seek is completely ineffable.

I know its not the desired answer, but the truth of this matter is most likely so encompassing and complex that we can not even begin to understand it. Just like our very existence, creation, demise, etc etc etc.

Just my .02




posted on Aug, 2 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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I think one of the problems with Determinism ( even if it's correct ), is what attitude it promotes in someone that believes in it.

If someone believes that everything is pre-destined, then it tends to encourage a lowering of the bar and an abrogation of responsibility.

Everything can be brushed off as ''Oh well, it was destined to happen anyway'' or ''I can't be blamed for that, it was the only thing that could have happened''.

Determinism essentially relegates us to the status of ''programmed'' robots with absolutely no control over anything.
All in all, it's not a very inspiring, fulfilling philosophy or world-view, and that's why I think most of us go about in life as if Free Will does exist, even if deep down we are unsure whether it does.



posted on Aug, 2 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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There's another thought about Determinism that leaves me confused... It might be a bit difficult for me to put into words, but I'll try:

Imagine Determinism is true, and that we hypothetically create a master computer with an absolutely 100% accurate model of the ''Big Bang'' and all the mechanisms and variables that went into it defined accurately.

If I fast-forward this computer simulation a few million years, we find it's absolutely accurate, right down to it showing me typing this post at this very moment.

What if I keep fast-forwarding this simulation for another 10 minutes, and see what I'm doing then ( bearing in mind that this simulation is 100% accurate ).

Having seen what I'm destined to do in 10 minutes, I decide to do something completely different in ''real-time'', which - due to the knock-on effects of my different action - will completely mess up the future according to this ''100% accurate'' simulation.

This thought confuses me and leaves my brain hurting a little bit !



posted on Aug, 2 2010 @ 04:53 AM
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I believe that people and the world are too complex for an absolute answer to the question of free will to be possible. It's really not worth getting into too deeply. But that's just my opinion, which really isn't worth much.



posted on Aug, 2 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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well, we may not need to decide, all the possibilities may exist in other universes .... we may be just computer simulations generating true or false, every time ...

who knows

the truth is that we will be able to simulate a human brain in a close future, we will create persons inside a box that will be able to interact with our world

give it a few years



posted on Aug, 2 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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If there is no free-will is there such a thing as pre-crime?



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