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A question that is very controversial

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posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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I was recently talking to a guy who tried to explain to me how free will must exist.

I came to as you guys how you feel on this subject.


Anyway Let's discuss the existence of free will.

I would like to know if you guys believe in free will, and why if you want to explain to me, and tell me if it is time travel which negates causality or free will.


(Edit to keep the discussion back to free will)

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]




posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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Check the original post.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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I agree more with the other person. You showed so much disrespect to him through the language.... unless you flipped the @ part around and meant you as him and him as you or something.

Honestly you can't look at things in the binary... the black and the white. What I believe is that we have limited free will. If we had full free will we would be omnipotent, which is impossible.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Phlynx]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Uhh, he won.
JK

Nah but for real your trying to prove him wrong by continually switching topics/points and calling him names. Lame. Don't want to argue with you but - Its a DRAW, for him being dumb enough to listen to you call him names and you being dumb enough to get so angry to stoop to that level.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Phlynx
I agree more with the other person. You showed so much disrespect to him through the language.... unless you flipped the @ part around and meant you as him and him as you or something.

Honestly you can't look at things in the binary... the black and the white. What I believe is that we have limited free will. If we had full free will we would be omnipotent, which is impossible.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Phlynx]


Where it says me then the other guy that means I am talking.

Where it says the other guy then me it means it is me.

I was also pissed off about the since you have made a lot of comments recently you will have to enter in this code.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Uhh, he won.
JK

Nah but for real your trying to prove him wrong by continually switching topics/points and calling him names. Lame. Don't want to argue with you but - Its a DRAW, for him being dumb enough to listen to you call him names and you being dumb enough to get so angry to stoop to that level.


Yeah but I only get angry after a while this was over a span of about 3 hours.

This is only a portion.

Oh I forgot to mention that he kept including numerous replies to the same post so I omitted some of them.

Which is why it LOOKS like I am jumping around but I am actually replying to like 6 in 1 post.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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ok i read the first question you asked him and his response.

the correct answer is experience. not neurons etc...

which actually proves free will exists in itself. thank you, come again.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by LurkerMan
 


I meant in a scientific sense.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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If there is no such thing as free will, then you must believe in a pre determined destiny?



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull
If there is no such thing as free will, then you must believe in a pre determined destiny?


I believe we have no free will but the illusion of free will still causes us to "Make our own actions".



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


The classic Determinist view which my professors treated me like an idiot for defending basically states that the stimuli which we are exposed to from the start is not within our control. That random stimuli is what we use in our processing of choices that would be either successful or unsuccessful for us. As a general biological rule, creatures behave in ways that promote the continuation of their species, thus they exist . Another factor which is out of our control is the biology and health/ processing power of our brains themselves. That is a product of evolution and random genetics. So when it comes down to it every time a person tries to make a free choice, they are processing the biologically most successful outcomes based on random information which came in the form of experiences. It reminds me of algorithms.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


The more we think we know about this world, the more we realise that we are left in the dark. I am interested on were this discussion will lead. S&F

In that conversation he said you need a degree like him (in my opinion that was ignorant to say that). Am I not mistaken, but don't you hold a degree with mathematics? Or am I mistaken?



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


that was the scientific sense.

experience dictates emotion, and you define your experience.

experience is your interpretation of stimuli, which involves choice.

you can choose you let various elements influence your experience, such as previous experience outcomes, reactionary impulses, and our own creative imaginations, thus proving free will.

we can also ignore various elements, also adding to the outcome of the experience, and thus potentially influencing future experience's.

emotion is the various ratios of elements you choose to ignore/embrace, also dictated by free-will.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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Hmm, interesting!

I do not know really. Does Cause and Effect mean we do not have any Free Will? I mean, if everything really is a deeply complex chemical reaction then there really is no Free will, everything is pre-determined.

I'm not sure!

Kind regards



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Free will isn't free! USA!!! USA!!! USA!! USA!!!

Freedom fries cost $3.95

Government and religion tax free will and tell you not to use it.

War is peace

Free Will is Predetermined



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:28 PM
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Thought you would find this of interest...from WIKI, a deeper look is recomended.

Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace (23 March 1749 – 5 March 1827)

Laplace's demon
Main article: Laplace's demon

Laplace strongly believed in causal determinism, which is expressed in the following quote from the introduction :

We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.

—Pierre Simon Laplace, A Philosophical Essay on Probabilities

This intellect is often referred to as Laplace's Superman or Laplace's demon (in the same vein as Maxwell's demon). Note that the description of the hypothetical intellect described above by Laplace as a demon does not come from Laplace, but from later biographers: Laplace saw himself as a scientist who hoped that humanity would progress in a better scientific understanding of the world, which, if and when eventually completed, would still need a tremendous calculating power to compute it all in a single instant.

...this view of causal determinism is at odds with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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freewill.
absolutely available to each and everyone of us that has capabilites of making a choice.
your freewill and my freewill can augment or diminish eachothers.
it is evident in either acceptance or denial of either position held, or needs met or unmet.
even the argument itself is a statement of freewill.
the subscription of predestined outcome would contradict perception of all timelines.
that's my freewill in action, right there, right now.

now comes yours.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by ironbutterflyrusted
 


Oh ya nice addition. I remember back when I was studying this, there were experiments being conducted to see if we can find the patterns in chaos. A specific camera in a busy place was recording data and a computer was making calculations in an attempt to be able to determine when a specific individual will walk by or what color will be worn predominantly in any given day... etc. as far as what you said, all we need to know is the 'primary mover' or the motions of the first elementary particles and the rest can be generated exactly like an algorithm.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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One's fate has already been pre-destined by `God`.

One's destiny could be reached through free-will.

Exemplar:

1. I want to be rich.
2. God said, `Nah.`
3. I'll do whatever it takes.
4. God said, `Go for it.`

[edit on 2010-7-02 by pikypiky]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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I don't believe in free will.

There is only the illusion of free will.

Every singe moment you make a decision you are already influenced by everything that got you to the point, you need to decide.
The need to make a decision has already corrupted free will.

Why do you make a decision ? To deliver a result from something or someone that needed that result.

Lets say someone offers you a cup of coffee, and asks if you want some sugar in it.
Yes or know, easy answer. But that you needed to answer was because you would not like to drink the coffee if it is not what you are used to.
Of course if you are used to sugar, you can say no. But you will not enjoy your coffee as much as you normally would.
This counts for everything in life. Everything in life is influenced by everything in life.

You are free to choose of course.

I hope you get what I said, cause it looked pretty stupid when I read it back.



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