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World tired of us: Israeli minister

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posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by LittleSecret
 


Like what conflicting reports?

Also any school boy in catholic school can tell you the comments, titles, and chapters were added. I fail to see how that matters? We all know they were written by priests and were not in there originally.

That's why, you know, they're called Comments, and not passages....
[edit on 5-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 5-7-2010 by Gorman91]




posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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Here is just one small example of why the world is sick and tired of Israel's conduct.

Alex Harrison



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


Biased people have biased testimonies. I can't honestly trust her testimony any more than an Israeli politician.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by LittleSecret
 


Like what conflicting reports?

Also any school boy in catholic school can tell you the comments, titles, and chapters were added. I fail to see how that matters? We all know they were written by priests and were not in there originally.

That's why, you know, they're called Comments, and not passages....
[edit on 5-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 5-7-2010 by Gorman91]

I'll repeat, you need much research before discussing this issue, let's start simple:

What do you perceive the Bible as?

Is it the accounts of Jesus?

Who were the authors?

How many authors?

Do the authors report the same stories?

What was the original language of the Bible?

How many language transitions?

Are there comments by priests in the bible which doesn't state it is a comment? That it is completely mixed with the rest creating that illusion that it is part of the Bible? And how long has these comments been there? How do we know it hasn't completely mixed and completely forgotten that it was simply a side note of a priest, and not the account of Jesus.

Is the Bible available in its original language?

Did all the authors meet Jesus?

....

I'm sorry but I will not push you to the corner by trying to shatter your belief.

That won't achieve anything, I have been through the same phase as you, and when my belief shattered through an Atheist know it all wanna be, I ended up doing things which I never did, or ever dreamed of doing.

It lead me to a life of crime, alcoholism, sex, drugs and violence. I'm still stuck because of those deeds, it hasn't gotten me no where in life. The only thing I gained was experience.

I will not push you to the corner, just know that Jesus was someone to be proud of believing in, he was truly a man who brought the words of GOD, but the word of GOD got mixed with the words of man.

I refuse to continue this discussion for personal reason.

That being said, I hope you achieve what ever you are trying to achieve in life.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Given the complete mainstream media pro israeli bias where would you expect to hear the truth about the situation? Kofi Annan on a realtively recent visit to Gaza was absolutely appalled at the conditions he found there. www.un.org

My friend, a jew, is a member of 'palestinians and jews for peace' (many many jews are apalled at their government's actions) was present when Rachel Corrie was crushed to death. Would you believe him?



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by LittleSecret
 


Want through that phase over the course of 4 years. However I was then and always will be a stoic and did not make bad choices just because I hit a faith low.

If you want to continue a conversation via PM, I'll be happy to do it.

I'll answer you on your questions, and you can reply PM.



What do you perceive the Bible as?

Bible is God's word written by men. These men were from many places and during the exile of the Jews they came together and put it together, feeling it was similar enough to view it as divinely inspired.

There are many questions to be found. Why does the second story of creation never call Adam by name, was he another man before Adam who also named his wife Eve? Why are Adam and Eve rarely called together by name. Was there a man with a wife named Eve? A woman with a husband named Adam? Were they the same Adam and Eve in the garden? Many questions. But its all there. Put aside opinion and just the word, and it works out.

Is it the accounts of Jesus?

Jesus says he is older that Abraham. He is forever. There are those who believe every time God was seen on Earth it was really Jesus. That Jesus is the flesh God uses on Earth. His form on Earth, (a la the movie Kapax)

Who were the authors?

Many men who told similar stories. They put all their stories together. This is evident by the fact there is more than one story of creation.

How many authors?

Many

Do the authors report the same stories?

Yes. A better question is, however, are thy necessarily telling the name stories? As I said above, Why is Adam never called by name in the 2nd story of creation? Why is Adam's name not told till a long time later? WAS Adam the man in the Garden? They tell their stories. The stories interact. But there's plenty of places where different people had the same name. are Adam and Eve the only Adam and Eve? I am named after my father, as well as many others. Who knows?

What was the original language of the Bible?

Hebrew. Possibly some mixed in Persian and what not during the Exile. Greek too.

How many language transitions?

at least 4. Going back to the original, there are some differences, but nothing which loses its value.

One example would be when Jesus is on the cross with the criminal. There are those who say that in the original translation, the comma is in a different location. However, it does not change the main point about being saved.

Are there comments by priests in the bible which doesn't state it is a comment? That it is completely mixed with the rest creating that illusion that it is part of the Bible? And how long has these comments been there? How do we know it hasn't completely mixed and completely forgotten that it was simply a side note of a priest, and not the account of Jesus.

There was never one person on the Sanhedrin. There was never one man in control of the scrolls. The scrolls were always under the control of many men with different opinions, many of which had remembered it orally. Therefore it is not likely that editing was forgotten or accidental. Even has the New Testimony was written, they knew there was errors occurring orally. But there were always many who remembered it to correct error. It was the single men out in villages preaching that had errors whom were corrected with written editions. These were written down only the first generation after Jesus died. They could not have had errors as there were thousands of followers from many many places. The church then had a council to decide what was factual and not based on the very memories of the church leaders. They, again, were diverse men.

We need only look at our own constitution to see how perfect a document can be made from a diverse number of people.

I suppose a better question is why would God let the wrong version get written?

Is the Bible available in its original language?

Yes, actually. And I know, it is true that it is in vaults. And the Catholic church has a monopoly. But there are plenty of heretical groups that essentially have the same thing with their own books added in.

Did all the authors meet Jesus?

Yes and no. But like I said, there were enough people to full proof it for one generation after Jesus' death and his follower's death. It usually takes at least 2 or 3 generations of very few people knowing something for something to be broken from its original form.

The bible was always in the hand of many different people who could not make changes without the other noticing.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


No I would not. He is part of a group and therefore biased.

Finding unbiased sources in the middle east is like trying to find liquid water on Pluto. It's pretty much impossible.

And for this reason, I count none ad righteous and innocent. I see no innocent people in two democracies who both voted for war hawks, got a war, and asked why? If they were too stupid to realize what they were voting for, they both got what they deserved. Not my problem.

In addition to that, I have seen neither support nor aggression to Israel in the media. I have seen nothing in the media about this.

To tell you the truth I did not even know about a blockade there.

The western media does not seem to be picking a side here. They seem to be picking no side here. And rest assured, not reporting it does not make you favor Israel. It means you don't care.

Fact is, Iran and war are more interesting that a genocide.

That's why the media also does not cover the genocide in Russia, Sudan, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and so many other places. They are not picking sides. It's that no one cares.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret
Are there comments by priests in the bible which doesn't state it is a comment? That it is completely mixed with the rest creating that illusion that it is part of the Bible? And how long has these comments been there? How do we know it hasn't completely mixed and completely forgotten that it was simply a side note of a priest, and not the account of Jesus.


Ooozy You are totally out in left field. I have read the Koran simply so I could speak effectively in discussions on topic about it. [I'm no expert] Have you even picked up a Torah [ Doubt it ] or the Christian bible?


Is the Bible available in its original language?


Yes.


Did all the authors meet Jesus?


Old or New testament? Would you know the difference?


I'm sorry but I will not push you to the corner by trying to shatter your belief.


Sorry but many of us will not have our faith shaken by somebody simply becuase they try to punk our beliefs online.



That won't achieve anything, I have been through the same phase as you, and when my belief shattered through an Atheist know it all wanna be, I ended up doing things which I never did, or ever dreamed of doing.

It lead me to a life of crime, alcoholism, sex, drugs and violence. I'm still stuck because of those deeds, it hasn't gotten me no where in life. The only thing I gained was experience.


It's called life in the REAL real world. Having faith in a power greater than ourselves is uniquely human. Whether it be Allah, Jesus or whomever or whatever name he goes by. Don't let the ramblings of a lost soul shake your beliefs be it Jew, Muslim or Christian etc.


I will not push you to the corner, just know that Jesus was someone to be proud of believing in, he was truly a man who brought the words of GOD, but the word of GOD got mixed with the words of man.


This is true. IMHO

PEACE

Slay



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret

Hypocrisy is the problem, they expect everyone else to abide by International laws, and expect themselves to get the VETO middle finger all the time.


I can accept that statement as factual when you can quote me chapter and verse of the international law that Israel has "broken". Careful, though. since it might be a trick question.

You, of all people here, ought to know that I'm not entirely unfamiliar with International Law, and how it works.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Maybe we should simply agree to disagree on this. You appear to be a NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). I cannot agree that people 'do not care' about genocide. In my view they would care very much...and force their governments to call a halt to it were they to actually be allowed to see the death and suffering they are responsible for via their tax. But they do not. It is in that respect that the media demonstrates its bias. By not showing you what you're paying for. Media bias is clever and subtle. (BTW - my friend is from Scotland not the Middle East)

You state you weren't even aware there was a blockade on Gaza...that demonstrates to me that speaking to you on this matter is a complete waste of time.

You think its ok to arm up for another bloody useless war with Iran? After the bloody and useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? What kind of psychopaths have we become?



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by LittleSecret

Hypocrisy is the problem, they expect everyone else to abide by International laws, and expect themselves to get the VETO middle finger all the time.


I can accept that statement as factual when you can quote me chapter and verse of the international law that Israel has "broken". Careful, though. since it might be a trick question.


Here's a good start:

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


Never said I agree with it. Just reporting it as it is.

I certainly care about genocide. It's just not reported.

In addition, the news also does not report on ANYTHING that our tax dollars go to.

There is no connection between bias media and Israel. The most I have observed is fox news insulting Obama here and there for not doing much. That's about it.

To tell you the truth, in all this world there is one conflict I do not care for who wins or loses. And that is the Israeli one. There has been war there since the dawn of recorded history. So for all intensive purposes, it is absolutely useless to pick a side, seeing as both sides are hate filled fools. Forgive me, but when I see supposedly innocent citizens starving to death for a war they funded and voted for, I can't exactly shed a tear. The same goes to the now wealthy fine and dandy Israeli citizen who voted for a war. I can't exactly care about their jolly ups because they are just as guilty.

So sorry, yea people are suffering, but both sides voted for this.

Where are the people who did not vote for it? They live in places like America, where they sell religious artifacts since their diaspora from the region at places like my church, and give a speech every few months about how they ran away and need our money to support themselves.

I buy a few artifacts for the hell of it. They are the real innocents to what I observe. They did not vote for war, so when it came, they left, because they did not want it.

Those who got their Cojones big and strong for the war effort are not happy they won or sad they lost.

So yea, I suppose I am a not in my back yard sorta guy. Not sure though.

All I know is that I have watched all my life as each side got more and more barbaric and hate filled, until they both had an election, voted in war hawks, and had themselves their precious holy war. Now one side lost and another side won.

So why should I care? They got what they wanted.

They had a dick waving contest, and Israel turned out to be the dickiest of the two. Clap clap clap. Congratulations. I crown ye Israel, king of the dicks, conquerer of the lesser dicks. I salute you, say good bye, and go on with my life.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Thanks for the link. It's a lot of reading, especially when one clicks the links there, to see what further information they lead to, so it may take awhile. I'm still going through it, still searching for chapter and verse on any International Laws that Israel has violated. If I find any, I'll report them back here, with my ears suitably pinned back in contrition.

So far, it's all dealing with the UN, specifically UN "resolutions". I haven't ran across the laws yet.

[edit on 2010/7/5 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
So far, it's all dealing with the UN, specifically UN "resolutions". I haven't ran across the laws yet.

[edit on 2010/7/5 by nenothtu]


#, sorry man. Most of the resolutions up until the 70's were works in progress. The vetoed sanctions come up from the 70's on. My apologies.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


No problem. There are a total of 224 Security Council resolutions to wade through. Starting at 1970 shaves off 54 of those. It would have helped if the wiki author had made some indication as to which were upheld and which were vetoed, but that's on him, not a reflection on you.

Once I can find those, then it becomes easier to research them, to find what the legal backing cited was for the violation.

Edit to add: It seems that a number of them WERE upheld as resolutions, but few if any (so far) cite any sort of law to back them, and none (so far) have hinted as to whether compliance was achieved, or the resolution was ignored. Without backing of law, the point is moot, so that at least narrows the field somewhat.


[edit on 2010/7/5 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by LittleSecret
 


LittleSecret,

Be strong man. You have lived your life and made mistakes as have us all.

Remember The Temple hypocrites used to mock Jesus because he spent his time with what they considered rift raft, Thieves, Tax collectors and prostitutes.

Jesus knew that his teachings would not be listened to by bible thumping, self righteous hypocrites but rather he fished for men and women who had ears to hear. Jesus Told us that sinners need only repent, truly and sin no more. It's no biggy man, don't worry about it.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 




Actually no, I am not saying this with a straight facer. I am laughing because you are a hypocrite. You are inventing your own religion based on half truths form many places.


I am not inventing a Religion Sr.

I am preaching gospel to you, from the heart.

It's funny that you put more weight into the redundant reading from a book that to the actual understanding of it.

Sure it is my own understanding, but that is the point of gospel it must be from the heart not from some book.

Hypocrisy, and half truths are a direct cause of religion.

A Gnostic, a Sufi the Cabals are not a part of religion...we are mystics and religion has done nothing but try to stomp us out of existence from this material world.



Now sure I'll pray for your forgiveness. And I have faith I will see you in heaven. And there I will joke about how wrong you were, forgive you, and go on enjoying eternity.


Well thanks.


[edit on 6-7-2010 by Izarith]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by Izarith
 


But what gospel? And yea people have tried to stomp it out of existence. Surprisingly not as violent as the Jews or other groups though. It's because I can't see the gnostics as being right. Specifically the part of an imperfect God.

If a God is above time, than even if he is imperfect, anything he learns instantly is there at his beginning, as he is above time itself, thus making him imperfect.

If even this God is bound by time, then it indicates there is another above him. A God above all.

And yea, I pray for all to be forgiven. I don't want anyone in hell.

Do you have any idea how fun it would be to show Hitler how wrong he was? Or perhaps Dick Cheney? Is it not the greatest gift God could give to the oppressed the ability to show them as equals to their oppressors? In many ways it is worse than hell for those who did the oppressing!

But I'm not God. I will not judge them. I will only pray for all to be in heaven.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 6-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 




But what gospel? And yea people have tried to stomp it out of existence. Surprisingly not as violent as the Jews or other groups though. It's because I can't see the gnostics as being right. Specifically the part of an imperfect God.


What Jesus did was turn the water into wine, Jesus fermented the scriptures of the Temple and turned it into wine.

The Temple priests did nothing but redundantly recite scriptures and force it's laws. This did not nourish the souls of the Jewish people. Jesus tried to change that and gave nourishment's to those who would accept it.

Gnosticism is not about being right or wrong, it's about common sense and knowledge, and with the common sense and knowledge finding the gospel with in the text of scriptures.

God is nothing but a word, that's all it is a Word. And just like a Cross can be mistaken for Jesus so can the Word God be mistaken for the father. It is not God that is imperfect but rather our understanding of what God is.



If a God is above time, than even if he is imperfect, anything he learns instantly is there at his beginning, as he is above time itself, thus making him imperfect.


All the God of the Greeks were imperfect because that was their understanding of God. Were they wrong?

Your understanding of God is that he is your Lord and is perfect and liberating in his Lordship and is perfect. Are you Right?

We do not know what God is, but we do know that we do not know what God is. Yet we all have the Father close to our hearts, so we seek him out.



If even this God is bound by time, then it indicates there is another above him. A God above all.


The word God in your mind is what ever you want it to be, "I am I am".

But the urning in your heart for the Father is unwavering and constant.



And yea, I pray for all to be forgiven. I don't want anyone in hell.

Do you have any idea how fun it would be to show Hitler how wrong he was? Or perhaps Dick Cheney? Is it not the greatest gift God could give to the oppressed the ability to show them as equals to their oppressors? In many ways it is worse than hell for those who did the oppressing!


Only upon realizing and understanding that we are just as vial as those we wish not to judge will we be able to not be as vile by simple understanding and rising above. When one judges another we are only judging ourselves.



But I'm not God. I will not judge them. I will only pray for all to be in heaven.


We all judge because we all judge ourselves. The Father is close to our hearts for a reason. Our ignorance of why we seek the father is why we believe we judge others instead of ourselves.




posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by Izarith
 


But common sense is only good for government, not God.

How can Common sense be mixed with any faith? Life itself is against common sense.



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