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Well, I still stand on my position that what you are doing is not very Buddhist-like at all. Buddhism is not about nobility
(go read the definition en.wikipedia.org...),
and definitely not about superiority over others.
I don't know where you read or heard that, but that is wrong.
Buddhism teaches many things, one being virtue which leads to compassion and wisdom.
Pure compassion
will not let you judge others for purposes of claiming superiority and pure wisdom will make you wise enough to know you cannot, and so you shall not, try and convert others to your own beliefs.
You can search within yourself and teach others what you have found, but to say your beliefs are superior to theirs is egotistical. Buddhism teaches the 'ego' is a false notion that must be overcome in order to reach nirvana.
You said "Buddhists engaged in great debates with other ideologies in order to disprove one and claim a superior system over another.", can you name what Buddhists engaged in this and/or what debates you are talking about?
Have you ever heard the Dalai Lama speak about other religions? He has very little to say and when he does have something to say it is compassionate and wise but without judgment or comparison.
Seems like you are bringing the same Judeo/Christian/Islamic ways that you despise, into Buddhism, as many Westerners do, which is why I stated previously to "keep it real or don't keep it at all".
Just like your other post that was titled something like "Ask me any question about Buddhism/Nirvana and I will answer". This implies that you are an enlightened master and since it is obvious you are not, it shows that your desire to speak upon these matters ( I can't say teach) comes from the need to supplement your ego. In this day and age, realizing the ego is there and then realizing it is false and then finding the path to move beyond and without it is one of the most difficult things we must achieve. That is why there are a very small amount of truly enlightened ones and real gurus, while most who claim to be so only do so for either the same reason as you have (notoriety/attention/satisfaction of the ego) or to make money.
So again, "keep it real or don't keep it at all"!
Originally posted by ApacheChief
reply to post by filosophia
what is making people all uppity is not that you or anyone else has made the assumption of superiority but that the title of your thread is a comparison but you then make a judgement. to me the whole concept is in one sense apples and oranges because there is an objective reality to the claims of many religions such as christianity stating that man is sinful and buddhism stating that life is suffering. in other words things are not believed for no reason, everyone has a valid reason to believe what they believe and to act according to belief.
I am not a universalist, but religions, one can say are really just different solutions to the same problems we all face in life such as suffering and sin.
Originally posted by filosophia
Buddhism is a superior philosophy to Christianity.
Christianity believes in a creator God that one must worship unquestioningly for the sake of achieving a heavenly reward.
Buddhism holds that one gains enlightenment through their own means, not through another's means or through a God's will or forgiveness.
Christianity holds that through acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Lord and savior, one is forgiven of their sins.
Buddhism holds that through gnosis of the cause of suffering, and the relinquishing of suffering, one gains unsurpassed nirvana, which is freedom from suffering (sin).
Christianity is based on the teachings of the bible, a book inspired by God.
Buddhism is based on the experience of enlightenment attained by the Buddha, which can be verified by everyone.
Christianity holds that the cause of suffering is Adam and Eve's sin of eating a forbidden fruit.
Buddhism holds that the cause of suffering is desire.
Christianity holds that God created all things, good and evil.
Buddhism states that all things are impermanent and subject to change.
Christianity believes that good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell.
Buddhism believes that life is the result of the causes preceding, and that each lifetime is co-dependent upon a preceding moment (the law of karma, which is the law of cause and effect).
Christianity believes that all of life can be traced back to Noah, the only person to survive the great flood.
Buddhism believes transcendence is more important than finding the origin of life (long since gone as it happened in the past).
Christianity believes the individual is born a sinner.
Buddhism believes the individual is a series of connected moments, called in temporary terms a 'self' but is in fact a series of dependent and therefore impermanent material states of consciousness.
Christianity believes that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life
Buddhism believes the Buddha-nature, found within all things, is the way, the truth, the life.
Originally posted by filosophia
Buddhism holds that one gains enlightenment through their own means, not through another's means...
Originally posted by filosophia
Buddhism holds that the cause of suffering is desire.
Originally posted by filosophia
Buddhism states that all things are impermanent and subject to change.
Originally posted by filosophia
Christianity believes that good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell.
The Parinirvana Sutra says:
"Among the 8 great Hells, the worst is known as Avici Hell. Because one experiences immense suffering without any interval, thus it is given such a name."
The Ksitigarbha Sutra says:
"Avici Hells are hells reinforced with iron surrounded by iron walls, 8 millions miles wide and 1 million miles high. These Hells are fully filled with burning flames and are jointly linked up together with other Hells of different names. Among them there is one Hell by the name of Avici. The area of this Avici Hell is eight thousand square miles. The whole of this Hell, with iron walls, is packed with burning flames. Iron snakes and dogs with hot fire in this Hell run from the East to the West. Also, there is an iron bed and when one is cast there, he can see his own body filling it. Therefore, all beings are subjected to punishment according to their sins."
In Buddhist cosmology, Avici Hell is considered the worst & most severe of all the hell realms in existence. The Sanskrit term "Avici" means without interval, referring to the unceasing torments that sinners in that hell experience for an unimaginably long time. What type of beings get reborn into such a terrible place? Those who have committed any of the 5 heinous sins, namely:
1. Murdering one's father
2. Murdering one's mother
3. Killing an Arahant
4. Shedding the blood of a Buddha
5. Creating discord within the Sangha
The Six Realms are an allegorical description of conditioned existence, or samsara, into which beings are reborn. The nature of one's existence is determined by karma.
Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Could the OP state what branch of Buddhism he is refering to?
I think that would make it easier to discuss.
Originally posted by filosophia
Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Could the OP state what branch of Buddhism he is refering to?
I think that would make it easier to discuss.
original buddhism, here is a reference: www.attan.com
Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
The funny thing is, I agree with the premise of what your saying just not the way you are presenting it. I def do not want to argue with you, as I respect many of your insights and thoughts, but maybe we can learn from each other by discussing these things.
I will just add this bit for now.
The pure Dharma was molded and shaped in accordance with the experiences of the lineage masters, who expressed the teachings most suited to the time, culture and dispositions of those training under them. Thus Buddhism came to have many faces, but the essence of all valid transmissions remains the same: to overcome negativity, to increase goodness and to cultivate and liberate the mind.
Originally posted by silent thunder
Originally posted by filosophia
Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Could the OP state what branch of Buddhism he is refering to?
I think that would make it easier to discuss.
original buddhism, here is a reference: www.attan.com
"Original Buddhism?" Please be more specific. I assume you are referring to Theravada, which is the oldest doctrinal strain in current practice. Or perhaps you are referring to one of the extinct branches. Or pre-schismatic Buddhism, which is hard to define in that just about every definition would be very controversial.
Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by filosophia
You took so much of what I said out of context and played off it to benefit your argument.
The "Four Noble Truths" have no attachment to the definition of nobility as you are using it to describe superiority over others. That is why I supplied you with the modern (western) definition of it, as you are using it, so you can determine if that describes or relates to the "Four Noble Truths". I will come back a little later and go into further detail on this.
You said "while compassion is a virtue, it is not transcendence, which is the true goal of Buddhism". So in your own words, transcendence it the goal. But what your not accounting for is that one cannot truly transcend without becoming virtuous, and one cannot become truly virtuous until they are truly compassionate. So in short, one cannot truly transcend without being compassionate. This is why Buddha Gautama taught, that the two most 'noble' virtues are Wisdom and Compassion, because they are the two most important virtues (of many) that will lead one to becoming virtuous, and thus able to transcend.
And to say I am egotistical for trying to correct someone who is claiming to be an 'enlightened one' so others are not confused of Buddhisms meaning, makes no sense. Remember I am not the one creating threads making outrageous claims, like I know all and I am superior, as you have.
More later.
Please comment on the medieval Japanese Buddhist concept of Mappo, which specifically states that sentient beings in the current age are no longer capable of achieving enlightenment on their own and need intercession from bodhisattvas, Nyorai Buddhas, etc.
There is much more I can say but to be honest I'm getting tired of typing. As the other poster above noted, please "keep it real" and educate yourself in basic Dharma before attempting to "speak for Buddhism."
Originally posted by filosophia
Please comment on the medieval Japanese Buddhist concept of Mappo, which specifically states that sentient beings in the current age are no longer capable of achieving enlightenment on their own and need intercession from bodhisattvas, Nyorai Buddhas, etc.
This is a false guru-mentality in which enlightenment is dished out by a chosen one. Enlightenment is gained by knowledge. The only benefit of a guru is learning from one who has seen the way, but there must have come a time when the first guru was self-taught. The historical Buddha rejected the teachers who taught by way of extreme bodily austerity and instead achieved enlightenment of his own accord, not through a previous guru.
Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by silent thunder
If 1 billion people believed that a divine guru was necessary in order to achieve enlightenment, I would without hesitation say that that is 1 billion people who have it wrong. And I more or less did that by denouncing Christianity as inferior to Buddhism. Christians, as we know, believe a divine guru (Jesus) is necessary for salvation, and Christians number in the billions (although that could be a politically exaggerated claim, as I may be counted among those billion Christians).
The historical Buddha did not have a guru, so he goes against your theory. As for Buddhism "light" the only light worth mentioning is the primordial light of knowledge within the mind, which real Buddhism is meant to illuminate, not superficial morality.
“'The purification of one’s own mind/will', this means the light (joti) within one’s mind/will (citta) is the very Soul (attano)” [DN2-Att. 2.479]
[edit on 3-7-2010 by filosophia]
What I say, I say because it is what I believe, I try not to water things down as much as possible. If someone comes along and shuts me up, I will bow to their wisdom, until then I must, for my own sake, stand my ground. Even now, I am editing my words in order to be 'nice' but I regret doing so. I'm tired of being nice.
The Buddha was sitting under a tree talking to his disciples when a man came and spit on his face. He wiped it off, and he asked the man, “What next? What do you want to say next?”
The man was a little puzzled because he himself never expected that when you spit on somebody’s face, he will ask, “What next?” He had no such experience in his past. He had insulted people and they had become angry and they had reacted. Or if they were cowards and weaklings, they had smiled, trying to bribe the man. But Buddha was like neither, he was not angry nor in any way offended, nor in any way cowardly. But just matter-of-factly he said, “What next?”
There was no reaction on his part. Buddha’s disciples became angry, they reacted. His closest disciple, Ananda, said, “This is too much, and we cannot tolerate it. He has to be punished for it. Otherwise everybody will start doing things like this.” Buddha said, “You keep silent. He has not offended me, but you are offending me. He is new, a stranger. He must have heard from people something about me, that this man is an atheist, a dangerous man who is throwing people off their track, a revolutionary, a corrupter. And he may have formed some idea, a notion of me. He has not spit on me, he has spit on his notion. He has spit on his idea of me because he does not know me at all, so how can he spit on me?"
“If you think on it deeply,” Buddha said, “he has spit on his own mind. I am not part of it, and I can see that this poor man must have something else to say because this is a way of saying something. Spitting is a way of saying something. There are moments when you feel that language is impotent: in deep love, in intense anger, in hate, in prayer.
There are intense moments when language is impotent. Then you have to do something. When you are angry, intensely angry, you hit the person, you spit on him, you are saying something. I can understand him. He must have something more to say, that’s why I’m asking, “What next?”
The man was even more puzzled! And Buddha said to his disciples, “I am more offended by you because you know me, and you have lived for years with me, and still you react.” Puzzled, confused, the man returned home. He could not sleep the whole night.
When you see a Buddha, it is difficult, impossible to sleep again the way you used to sleep before. Again and again he was haunted by the experience. He could not explain it to himself, what had happened. He was trembling all over and perspiring. He had never come across such a man; he shattered his whole mind and his whole pattern, his whole past.
The next morning he was back there. He threw himself at Buddha’s feet. Buddha asked him again, “What next? This, too, is a way of saying something that cannot be said in language. When you come and touch my feet, you are saying something that cannot be said ordinarily, for which all words are a little narrow; it cannot be contained in them.” Buddha said, “Look, Ananda, this man is again here, he is saying something. This man is a man of deep emotions.”
The man looked at Buddha and said, “Forgive me for what I did yesterday.” Buddha said, “Forgive? But I am not the same man to whom you did it. The Ganges goes on flowing, it is never the same Ganges again. Every man is a river. The man you spit upon is no longer here. I look just like him, but I am not the same, much has happened in these twenty-four hours! The river has flowed so much. So I cannot forgive you because I have no grudge against you.”
“And you also are new. I can see you are not the same man who came yesterday because that man was angry and he spit, whereas you are bowing at my feet, touching my feet. How can you be the same man? You are not the same man, so let us forget about it. Those two people, the man who spit and the man on whom he spit, both are no more. Come closer. Let us talk of something else.”
Noble means superior, as in the opposite of inferior, so the four noble truths are the highest truths, superior to all others. Buddhism does not teach an equality for all, everyone is equal, since that would go against the definition of Karma.