Julian Assange : Wrong Political Gamble, Know When To Hold'em, Know When To Fold'em...

Thank you SKL for your reply,

as expected, it was well thought out and deserving of deep contemplation.
i apologize in advance if mine does not seem so.

you commented that you dont believe he is a piece on the board let alone a player. you pointed out that he did not make a move but stole a piece from the board.

here is my humble response:

Using the analogy of a chess match between two grandmasters on a global platform.

I would say that in this game we the common man are playing this blind folded and from memory, with the move list being dictated to us by our opponent (tptb). in this instance the game is rigged and THE ONLY way to win is to circumvent the rules...
or ..

steal a piece.

As i stated before i under stand the moral conundrum and the implications of playing outside the rules. and i struggle with them.

my point in my original post was that belittling the mans intelligence was and is out of line.

respectfully,

~meathead

EDIT- spelling

[edit on 5-7-2010 by Mike Stivic]

reply to post by queenannie38


Thank you, queenannie38.

If you disagreed with me, I would thank you just the same, as I thank everyone.

This is a civil means of discourse through a physical manifestion of words on a screen.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Originally posted by Amagnon
You are trying to make the case that there is another way - one of the best ways to fight is to get incriminating information and get it onto the net. If you have to break a few of their fake laws to do so, and they 'set the dogs on you' that is called fighting injustice, and it may cost you.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Amagnon]

And ultimately that does absolutely nothing.

One man sits in jail because of it.

Another is on the run from Pentagon official hunting him.

And they will most likely try to detain him in Guantanamo.

Seeing as he is a foreigner with classified documents.

Fake laws?

Again, all laws are fake, or are they all corrupt?

I forget which you really think is which because you're not making sense.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Wow, you're against hackers as well

Always have been.

Originally posted by unityemissions
How bizarre. Do you realize a lot of professional hackers are conspiracy theorists at heart ??

Some but not all and thankfully not any percentage that will matter.

I do not support Government nor hackers/crackers having the ability to enter anyone's computers, no one should have that power, except tech support.

Government, unfortunately, is just as nosey and ignorant as hacker/crackers.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Don't you realize that they're taking it a step further and putting their ass on the line to uncover truth and disrupt the beast

Really?

So, in the end, they are stopping "the beast" how exactly?

I do not see Government slowing down an iota towards bringing on the cashless society.

The World Bank is moving forward faster with that every day American's economy is in the toilet, making the cashless society grow faster.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Screw what's considered illegal. If it's wrong, it's wrong, period. You are in the path of righteousness by uncovering truth. I can't believe you've bought into this programming, Spartan. I held you with a little more respect before this.

And I cannot believe you think I am programmed.

I am a free-thinking individual who knows right from wrong.

Sometimes, Government is wrong, via the people running it, sometimes citizens are wrong, reflected via their actions, nothing has changed.

I have always thought that.

Always.

If your respect level has changed than you misread me, period.

Originally posted by unityemissions
You can't beat a system from within their rules of law that has been entirely infiltrated by psychopaths, and been reconstructed to act as a psychopathic entity in itself. It holds everyone else responsible, yet denies responsibility itself.

There is no "beating the system" there is either being controlled by it.

Or controlling it.

Possibly being a victim of it through ignorance.

I am neither controlled by it nor am I controlling it.

I am merely a citizen within that system who knows more about it than most.

Originally posted by unityemissions
It is our responsibility, right, and duty as citizens of this earth to uphold the truth at all costs. This supersedes any petty national or international law system which does not serve the people. The law of the common man trumps all.

I am an Earthling first, yes, an American second, but when another countries citizen supercedes something my country is involved within, I am American.

Do not mistake my ability to understand international issues for being a traitor.

It is our right within our defined parameters of countries to be citizens.

If what you were saying, about "petty national/international" laws were true, more American's would not give a damn about the Border of Mexico and America.

Yet, the North American Union, is almost complete.

Quote from : Wikipedia : North American Union

The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical economic union, in some instances also a political union, of Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

It is loosely based on the European Union, occasionally including a common currency called the Amero or the North American Dollar.

While the idea for some form of union has been discussed or proposed in academic, business and political circles for many decades, government officials from all three nations say there are no plans to create such a union and no agreement to do so has been signed.

The formation of a North American Union has been the subject of various conspiracy theories.

And yet not one damn American citizen knows a damn thing about it.

Originally posted by unityemissions
If we are to win this battle against the oppressive forces of government, corporations, and banking institutions, we must wage war outside their systems of control. We must envision what must be done and execute with a swiftness and without mercy.

No, what we must do, and what we will do are two different things.

Too many times do I see intelligent people here on ATS doing nothing.

The same goes for other websites I frequent.

All they want to talk about is violence, ignorance, and typical stupidity.

If the Government, more the people within it, more particularly, are making laws, then what exactly are you doing here on ATS, other than talking?

Nothing.

Except talking.

There is no action that I see at all on your part.

At least not that you might have shared with me.

Written your Congress person?

How about visited your Governor?

What about City Hall?

Since I do not know you all that well I cannot answer those questions.

Only you can.

Originally posted by unityemissions
We are not being hypocrites, for they are not within our family of trust. They are people, but not human beings, as they operate without conscience. Behead those without conscience and restore peace to humanity. That will never be done by complying with all the rules.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by unityemissions]

To comply with rules, or break them, you have to first commit to actual action.

Because talking on a website does absolutely nothing if that website does nothing.

And not to insult SkepticOverlord, but he actually went to Washington D.C.

Have you been there?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a Congressman on Obama's side of the aisle?

I have.

Have you written a letter to a Governor of a state not your own?

I have.

How about having a County Manager come to a meeting of people you're aligned wth?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a City Hall employee after discussing local politics?

I have.

I am seeing more and more jabberjawing and little to no actual action.

Not the right kind of action, the political kind, and it infuriates me.

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


Point taken.

The moment they try to come and usher me into a Concentration Camp, is the moment I will step into their "perceived" criminality, and I will declare open war on America, but not one moment before that ever.

That is the exact last of my patience and resolve with Government.

And I will be using their bullhorns to do so after a massive enemy slaughter.

But it will be on the Government, Military, and Law Enforcement.

Those who try to uphold that particular law.

I do not see that happening that particular route though.

They will make the United Nations troops operate on American soil first.

You know the colors of the alleged peacekeepers right?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4a202d256514.png[/atsimg]

Most people have missed completely that the United Nations is at the Mexican/American border.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/149ea0584a14.png[/atsimg]

Quote from : Wikipedia : World Health Organization

The World Health Organization (WHO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations (UN) that acts as a coordinating authority on international public health.

Established on 7 April 1948, and headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, the agency inherited the mandate and resources of its predecessor, the Health Organization, which had been an agency of the League of Nations.

They are still down there due to Swine Flu and will be called on for Deepwater Horizon.

You know Rex-84?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Readiness Exercise 84

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, is a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of civil unrest or national emergency.

That plan however is doubtful if it ever happens.

reply to post by ThePowerOfOne


No, I think you're as mistaken as other people, in what is and is not right.

Human nature is to fight or take flight and that is the truth.

And fighting takes on all levels as criminality and patriotism.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You are correct on many levels whether you and I see eye to eye on Julian Assange.

reply to post by Mike Stivic


Your point was well taken into consideration albeit I do not agree.

In regards to Grandmaster's there are only those participating.

And those observing.

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1ec7219abc1a.jpg[/atsimg]

Kirkus Reviews : Amazon Review :

The former national security advisor is still a believer in geopolitics after all these years.

Like most foreign-policy aficionados weaned on the Cold War, Brzezinski (Out of Control, 1993) has been forced by the disintegration of the Soviet Union to broaden his perspective--but not very far.

He sees the US as the only global superpower, but inability to maintain its hegemony indefinitely means that ``geostrategic skill'' is essential.

To what end is not specified beyond the vague shaping of ``a truly cooperative global community'' that is in ``the fundamental interests of humankind,'' but in this genre, goals are commonly assumed rather than examined.

In any case, Brzezinski casts Eurasia as the playing field upon which the world's fate is determined and analyzes the possibilities in Europe, the former Soviet Union, the Balkans (interpreted broadly), and the Far East. Like a grandmaster in chess, he plots his strategy several moves in advance, envisioning a three-stage development.

Geopolitical pluralism must first be promoted to defuse challenges to America, then compatible international partners must be developed to encourage cooperation under American leadership, and finally the actual sharing of international political responsibility can be considered.

The twin poles of this strategy are a united Europe in the West and China in the East; the central regions are more problematic and, for Brzezinski, not as critical in constructing a stable balance of power.

This updated version of East-West geopolitics is worth taking seriously but it is also an amazing example of how a perspective can be revised without actually being rethought.

Since you like chess and the "game" you might like the above book.

Whether my questioning Julian Assange's intelligence was right or not, it is ultimately, between him and myself to decide, if we should ever meet face to face.

Hopefully is is not within a Concentration Camp or Guantanamo.

And hopefully it is neither as cell mates sharing a prison cell nor as captive and interrogator.

But I respect your right to think that and share that ultimately.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

SLK,
thank you for eloquently agreeing to disagree,

and also thank you for the link, i will definatly put it on my list. im sure if you recommend it, it is worth reading.

I also ,just like you, feel as though a physical manifestation of our profound frustration is the worst possible option. if we are going to stand a chance at breaking free of these chains that bind ,with our liberties and families intact we must use civil means.


the peaceful appoach of voting out career politicians , being aware of currently proposed legislation (locally and nationally), and jury nullification is no easy task and it requires alot of homework that im afraid most citizen's sadly will not take the time to do. due diligence has lost its following in the american herd.

perhaps the blame can be placed on the constant consumption of flouridated water and a remedial at best public school system. the critical thinking required is in the majority no longer attainable...but thats another thread.


now let me present you with another hypothetical.

you(the common man) are arrested(police state) for a crime you didnt commit(false flag) and the court (tptb)is suppressing vital information.
a man(julian) totally outside the case gets information dumped into his lap that can set you free.
would you not want that information admissable?


respectfully,

~meathead

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by queenannie38

 

There is no "beating the system" there is either being controlled by it.

Or controlling it.

Possibly being a victim of it through ignorance.

I am neither controlled by it nor am I controlling it.

I am merely a citizen within that system who knows more about it than most.

Is this not a contradiction? You have stated that within the system you are either being controlled by it, or are the one in control of it. Then you state that neither applies to you, yet you are a citizen? I fail to see how you, alone, are in this special circumstance. Please excuse me if I've misread this.

No, what we must do, and what we will do are two different things.

Too many times do I see intelligent people here on ATS doing nothing.

The same goes for other websites I frequent.

All they want to talk about is violence, ignorance, and typical stupidity.

If the Government, more the people within it, more particularly, are making laws, then what exactly are you doing here on ATS, other than talking?

I find it strange that you may think that discussing these issues is not the first step in getting action done. These changes will not happen from not speaking of them, will they?

Nothing.

Except talking.

There is no action that I see at all on your part.

At least not that you might have shared with me.

Written your Congress person?

How about visited your Governor?

What about City Hall?

Since I do not know you all that well I cannot answer those questions.

Only you can.

I'm not so naive to think that writing congress would do much of any good. Did congress listen to the people when the majority voiced in against the bailouts?

As for writing my Governor or City Hall, no I have done neither. Point well taken.

To comply with rules, or break them, you have to first commit to actual action.

There are some who would choose to know of words, thoughts, and ideas as things in action rather than inert vibrations of nothingness.

Because talking on a website does absolutely nothing if that website does nothing.

Before any physical action can be taken with enough strength to at least put a dent into the system, enough like-minded individuals must have an outlet to voice their opinions and ideas to bounce off each other and gain momentum. Every action as you choose to see it, starts with a single thought.

And not to insult SkepticOverlord, but he actually went to Washington D.C.

Have you been there?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a Congressman on Obama's side of the aisle?

I have.

Have you written a letter to a Governor of a state not your own?

I have.

How about having a County Manager come to a meeting of people you're aligned wth?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a City Hall employee after discussing local politics?

I have.

I am seeing more and more jabberjawing and little to no actual action.

Not the right kind of action, the political kind, and it infuriates me.

I kindly ask if any of your above actions actually caused any differences in policy. Not to say that all of these actions were in vein, but some of them may have been.

I do agree that in an open society, it would be ideal for each citizen to be informed and politically active at the local, state, and federal level. The difference of opinion we seem to encounter is from our differing perspective. In my view, it is insane for us to attempt and retake the government from within. I am of the opinion that those who have tried before us have been persuaded to drop out of the role of influence, or were forcefully removed. From this perspective, I see no other choice at this stage in the "game" other than a revolution of mind from outside the conventional political system.

You may think that my deeds are without merit. I may think the same with some of yours. I think we can both respect the fact that we're both free-thinking individuals who choose to be informed of the issues, and stand for what we think is right, while, of course, honoring the truth.

Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply, SKL.





[edit on 5-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
SLK,
thank you for eloquently agreeing to disagree,

and also thank you for the link, i will definatly put it on my list. im sure if you recommend it, it is worth reading.

No thanks necessary.

I only recommend books that have depth, impact, or power.

It is to your perception what those mean, how to use them, and ultimately what will come from those particular things, expand your mind, show you something you might not have known, or find a new perception.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
I also ,just like you, feel as though a physical manifestation of our profound frustration is the worst possible option. if we are going to stand a chance at breaking free of these chains that bind ,with our liberties and families intact we must use civil means.

I could not agree more with that because we are ultimately our own masters.

No one else is my master.

Just as no one is your master.

Unless you perceive them to be or allow them to be that master.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
the peaceful appoach of voting out career politicians , being aware of currently proposed legislation (locally and nationally), and jury nullification is no easy task and it requires alot of homework that im afraid most citizen's sadly will not take the time to do. due diligence has lost its following in the american herd.

Sadly, I do not believe it was ever there, unfortunately.

Not in the last century at the very least in my opinion.

Americans are lazy, politically, too self-centered, politically, and ignorant, politically.

The herd migration mentality has become follow the next television show.

Not any level of political knowledge.

I am of course referring to those oblivious of anything other than sound bytes.

People do not take the time to actually examine a politician.

Usually it is their hairstyle, religion, and family life, all things easily faked.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
perhaps the blame can be placed on the constant consumption of flouridated water and a remedial at best public school system. the critical thinking required is in the majority no longer attainable...but thats another thread.

Flouridated water and school is not to blame, at least not from where I sit.

It is the lack of desire to know what politics is all about completely.

It is the lack of desire to do something and let someone else handle the problems.

It is the lack of desire to give a damn about the country people reside in.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
now let me present you with another hypothetical.

you(the common man) are arrested(police state) for a crime you didnt commit(false flag) and the court (tptb)is suppressing vital information.
a man(julian) totally outside the case gets information dumped into his lap that can set you free.
would you not want that information admissable?


respectfully,

~meathead

Interesting hypothetical.

Unfortunately, I would say no, I tend to stand on my own, alone.

Always.

Forever.

There is simply nothing Julian Assange could offer that would make me take it.

Not even his hand in friendship.

I trust no one, and I never have, nor will I ever.

I am much safer that way.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Is this not a contradiction? You have stated that within the system you are either being controlled by it, or are the one in control of it. Then you state that neither applies to you, yet you are a citizen? I fail to see how you, alone, are in this special circumstance. Please excuse me if I've misread this.

I never said I was alone in that instance but I am alone as far as anything else.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I find it strange that you may think that discussing these issues is not the first step in getting action done. These changes will not happen from not speaking of them, will they?

Yes, talking accomplishes sharing ideas, but after a whole lot of talking, and zero actual action, it becomes a moot point, wasted effort.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I'm not so naive to think that writing congress would do much of any good. Did congress listen to the people when the majority voiced in against the bailouts?

I sure did not see any majority of any sort voice their opinions about the Bailout.

I saw blank-eyed deer in the headlights stares from uncomprehending American's.

I fail to see where any American citizens said or did a damn thing about that.

Other than chatrooms or websites like ATS which is not where Congress listens.

Originally posted by unityemissions
As for writing my Governor or City Hall, no I have done neither. Point well taken.

Thank you.

Originally posted by unityemissions
There are some who would choose to know of words, thoughts, and ideas as things in action rather than inert vibrations of nothingness.

Words mean about as much as the actions backing them up, period.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Before any physical action can be taken with enough strength to at least put a dent into the system, enough like-minded individuals must have an outlet to voice their opinions and ideas to bounce off each other and gain momentum. Every action as you choose to see it, starts with a single thought.

You're preaching to the choir here but as mentioned above, words and actions.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I kindly ask if any of your above actions actually caused any differences in policy. Not to say that all of these actions were in vein, but some of them may have been.

Obviously you would have to actually know me in person to know that.

I am someone who commands attention, not demanding it, and when I speak people listen.

I tend to speak intelligently and use resources most people miss.

Small ripples in a large pond make eventual change.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I do agree that in an open society, it would be ideal for each citizen to be informed and politically active at the local, state, and federal level. The difference of opinion we seem to encounter is from our differing perspective. In my view, it is insane for us to attempt and retake the government from within. I am of the opinion that those who have tried before us have been persuaded to drop out of the role of influence, or were forcefully removed. From this perspective, I see no other choice at this stage in the "game" other than a revolution of mind from outside the conventional political system.

You may think that my deeds are without merit. I may think the same with some of yours. I think we can both respect the fact that we're both free-thinking individuals who choose to be informed of the issues, and stand for what we think is right, while, of course, honoring the truth.

Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply, SKL.
[edit on 5-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Well, I never stated any of your deeds were without merit, I simply asked questions.

If you deeds have merit I would state so.

But, having never heard any of your merits, how can I truly know?

I cannot.

So far, I have nothing to base that opinion on, you have shared nothing.

Except words.

And words are but mere hollow gestures without actions to follow-through.

And other than your shared opinions I see we have little in common.

I respect those shared opinions and differences of ideals of course.

I just do not want to see America go down in flames due to inaction.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I just do not want to see America go down in flames due to inaction.

and without violence and more along the lines of how things were intended, it seems.

i think the system can work if it is not populated with selfish insulated COMPLACENT politicians.

politics should not be a career but a public duty as a private citizen...along the lines of the original experiment in democracy, ancient Greece, by Pericles.

(i've mentioned him twice this week, hmmmm.)

a service done as part of the community, on behalf of the community

not on behalf of one's own self.

It, has gotten to the point with me, that I am suspect of ANY and ALL released information.
Whether it be touted as first hand, eyes only, breaking news, suppressed, public service, etc etc.
There is a mastery of control being used on the entire accessible electronic media sources, at a level of interaction that is so hard to fathom it's not even believed.
I have a hard time advocating a system that consumes without contribution.
Information saturation is diagnostic quicksand, and that, is what we seem to be trying to run a 4 minute mile in.
Hungry, for food will trump hungry for truth everytime.
It's a tuff call Spart, I cant see continuing to slide into conformity and tolerance, and allowing alot, basically All of this unanswered nasty stuff to be blindly protected by substance of law by the same people doing the nasty and seeking to keep it quiet who enact te laws.
Yet again I cant see a benefit to just abandoning principle.
IF it's needed, and done to correct a condition that restores rights and protects individuals how can you Not take action?
The MIDDLE is probably a good place to be when you dispense justice,
but we may have to fight our way back to that ideal, that mindset, and may have to break some of their 'laws' along that way back.

Originally posted by queenannie38

I just do not want to see America go down in flames due to inaction.

and without violence and more along the lines of how things were intended, it seems.

You are correct.

Originally posted by queenannie38
i think the system can work if it is not populated with selfish insulated COMPLACENT politicians.

Or citizens for that matter.

Originally posted by queenannie38
politics should not be a career but a public duty as a private citizen...along the lines of the original experiment in democracy, ancient Greece, by Pericles.

This was the original method of doing things when America was created from the Colonies.

A career is not so much my problem with how politician do politics, it is however that they are allowed to vote themselves pay raises, that in itself is criminal.

There needs to be a fine line how things happen and how they are carried out.

Yes, public duty, over a career would be more benevolent, and term limits would help.

America was formed after both Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome, as far as politics go.

Originally posted by queenannie38
(i've mentioned him twice this week, hmmmm.)

a service done as part of the community, on behalf of the community

not on behalf of one's own self.

Nor of a lobbyist group, special interest group, and or Secret Society.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
It, has gotten to the point with me, that I am suspect of ANY and ALL released information.

I always have been since I was six years old.

Which is why I consider any Breaking Alternative News thread which uses a "blog" or another "conspiracy theory" website as a source, as questionable, and not a viable source of information.

I would rather decipher the propaganda C.N.N., C-Span, or Fox News uses.

At least I know they're lying and the lies they tell and how to differentiate them.

"Blogs" or other non-ATS websites have their own independent agenda.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Whether it be touted as first hand, eyes only, breaking news, suppressed, public service, etc etc.

Agreed.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
There is a mastery of control being used on the entire accessible electronic media sources, at a level of interaction that is so hard to fathom it's not even believed.

You are correct.

For anyone who knows warfare knows propaganda is used.

Media, Mainstream, Alternative, or Military, uses it, take care less you're spreading misinformation.

Or even blow back for that matter.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Blow Back (Intelligence)

Blowback is the espionage term for the violent, unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the civil population of the aggressor government.

To the civilians suffering it, the blowback typically manifests itself as “random” acts of political violence without a discernible, direct cause; because the public—in whose name the intelligence agency acted—are ignorant of the effected secret attacks that provoked revenge (counter-attack) against them.

Specifically, blowback denotes the resultant, violent consequences—reported as news fact, by domestic and international mass communications media, when the actor intelligence agency hides its responsibility via media manipulation.

Generally, blowback loosely denotes every consequence of every aspect of a secret attack operation, thus, it is synonymous with consequence—the attacked victims’ revenge against the civil populace of the aggressor country, because the responsible politico-military leaders are invulnerable.

In my estimation there is a lot more of that than intentional misinformation.

How does anyone know for sure what Julian Assange has is even viable?

Meaning, it could have been a carefully laid trap, and he fell into it.

The Military does do Covert Operations to flush out traitors all the time.

And Manning could have very well have been a suspected traitor already, and Assange was the bait for him, and Manning was bait for Assange, no one truly knows.

Remember, the telecommunications industry is in bed with Government, the Military has always been there, it is run by Government, after all, and in a war zone like Iraq, Afghanistan, or elsewhere who does what is monitored highly.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I have a hard time advocating a system that consumes without contribution.
Information saturation is diagnostic quicksand, and that, is what we seem to be trying to run a 4 minute mile in.

Which is why information is sorted, sifted, and vetted, to maintain credibility.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Hungry, for food will trump hungry for truth everytime.

Too true.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
It's a tuff call Spart, I cant see continuing to slide into conformity and tolerance, and allowing alot, basically All of this unanswered nasty stuff to be blindly protected by substance of law by the same people doing the nasty and seeking to keep it quiet who enact te laws.

I could not concur with you more but it is how we do it which is important.

Honorable or dishonorable?

I intend to retain honor without becoming a Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, or Bradley Manning.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Yet again I cant see a benefit to just abandoning principle.

That is all this thread has been about, not abandoning principles.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
IF it's needed, and done to correct a condition that restores rights and protects individuals how can you Not take action?

But the type of action is that which is in question here.

Assange's action, while his intent might have merit, the motive is in question, because his actions relying upon an alleged whistleblower, are similar to a spy.

Thieves, spies, and dishonorable people steal classified documents, conspiracy theorists do not.

There is nothing wrong with taking de-classified documents and exposing the lies within.

Redacted materials and or misinformation and disinformation is to be expected.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
The MIDDLE is probably a good place to be when you dispense justice,
but we may have to fight our way back to that ideal, that mindset, and may have to break some of their 'laws' along that way back.

Well, from where I sit, in the middle it is one thing to use intelligence, investigation, and intuition, it is a totally different thing to breach Intelligence Agencies, Military, or Government, because one is showing brains.

The other is not.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by unityemissions
Is this not a contradiction? You have stated that within the system you are either being controlled by it, or are the one in control of it. Then you state that neither applies to you, yet you are a citizen? I fail to see how you, alone, are in this special circumstance. Please excuse me if I've misread this.

I never said I was alone in that instance but I am alone as far as anything else.

You have deflected the question. Why have you chosen not to answer directly? Was your statement a contradiction or not? If not, please explain. How is it that you are not controlled by the system, yet are a citizen within it? Are you a member of the U.N.S.C or affiliated with any other government agency?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by unityemissions
I'm not so naive to think that writing congress would do much of any good. Did congress listen to the people when the majority voiced in against the bailouts?

I sure did not see any majority of any sort voice their opinions about the Bailout.

I saw blank-eyed deer in the headlights stares from uncomprehending American's.

I fail to see where any American citizens said or did a damn thing about that.

Other than chatrooms or websites like ATS which is not where Congress listens.

This is incorrect. There were thousands of people who called into the CSPAN hot-lines and contacted their congressmen and the majority of people who were on air speaking out were against it. All of the polling's that I'm aware of showed that the majority of people were against it, yet the bill passed anyways.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by unityemissions
I kindly ask if any of your above actions actually caused any differences in policy. Not to say that all of these actions were in vein, but some of them may have been.

Obviously you would have to actually know me in person to know that.

I am someone who commands attention, not demanding it, and when I speak people listen.

I tend to speak intelligently and use resources most people miss.

Small ripples in a large pond make eventual change.

Again, you didn't really answer my question. Allow me to ask it in a more specific way. Have you seen any concrete evidence that any political ideas or actions you've discussed or done have actually been implemented?





[edit on 6-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by unityemissions
You have deflected the question. Why have you chosen not to answer directly? Was your statement a contradiction or not? If not, please explain. How is it that you are not controlled by the system, yet are a citizen within it? Are you a member of the U.N.S.C or affiliated with any other government agency?

That answer is simple and my answer was neither contradictory nor deflected.

No one, absolutely no one, is "controlled" by the system, unless you see it that way.

Meaning, the system is easily seen, understood, and controlled, if you're smart.

In other words, work the system, or be worked by it, know what is legal and not.

Everything I do is completely legal because I comprehend how the system works.

People tend to think ignorantly that they are controlled by a system, yet they miss the point entirely, that is does nothing, but exist in place.

Hence, why I call it a control mechanism, instead of a system.

There is no "owners manual" like a vehicle, but some consider the Constitution one, knowing that, the laws written, the finite meanings, and all of the ways to use that knowledge, without stepping into illegality helps.

You can talk with a Police Officer if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

You can talk with a member of City Hall if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

You can talk with a County Official if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

You can talk with a member of the State Government if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

You can talk with a member of the Federal Government if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

You can talk with a member of State Department if you show respect and treat them with it.

You would be quite surprised with how effective common courtesy goes there.

What you can get accomplished, is only a matter of knowing policy, procedure, and protocol, and knowing exactly what you want, knowing how to ask for it, and knowing whether it is attainable or not, to begin with.

The first part of that though is showing respect, the second is knowing how the system works, and does not work, the third is knowing to ask.

Instead of demanding like an impatient child.

The "system" as you called it, is there for you to use, if only you know it.

I am simply more politically aware than most people I know because I pay attention.

I am an attention to detail person and I know people and how to talk to people.

We are doomed to repeat history if we do not know it, but we are as well doomed to be slaves to a system, if we do not know it, a control mechanism is merely a mechanism which controls those who accept that control.

And who do not control it through knowledge of politics.

Meaning if you accept that it controls you, you are a slave, if however you refuse to allow it to control you, you are in control of it at every turn.

And you have to be fearless and in control of yourself or you will never control it.

Originally posted by unityemissions
This is incorrect. There were thousands of people who called into the CSPAN hot-lines and contacted their congressmen and the majority of people who were on air speaking out were against it. All of the polling's that I'm aware of showed that the majority of people were against it, yet the bill passed anyways.

And I am obviously listening to C-Span hot-lines, right?

Not.

If they complained, yet were not listened to, obviously they did not say the right things, or were not articulate enough to let Congress know they would not be re-electing anyone within it ever again, or those Congress members obviously did not give a damn due to their re-election machines.

If they had said the right things or their Congress members felt their re-election was not assured, they might have listened, obviously neither was felt.

Too many American's did not truly know, and still do not, what a "Bailout" entails.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Again, you didn't really answer my question. Allow me to ask it in a more specific way. Have you seen any concrete evidence that any political ideas or actions you've discussed or done have actually been implemented?
[edit on 6-7-2010 by unityemissions]

I answered your question the way I did because I believe I had an impact.

That is quantified by my beliefs, knowledge, and understanding of politics.

Could I point it out, concrete enough, for you to see and or understand?

No.

Not for a lack of trying but because I simply am not going to go into specific details.