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Julian Assange : Wrong Political Gamble, Know When To Hold'em, Know When To Fold'em...

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posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I usually enjoy reading your posts and still do this time, but I must disagree. My premise for disagreeing is that there are laws in each country. Jurisdiction of any law is bound only within the borders of the country the law exists in. Assange found a country that supports his work and protects him under the laws of that country. I believe it is wrong to condemn him for breaking OUR laws, when he does not operate from the USA.


Hey, by all means, please disagree with me if that's where you stand.

Do you think Australia supports what Julian Assange does?

Or is he possibly already on their list of criminals?

I have been to Australia three times, loved it every time I went, but Australia does not support breaking laws, the Government does not, if people within the country do however, that is unknown to me at this time.

I sent this to my ex-girlfriend, an Australian, to get her thoughts on it.

But Australia was founded as a penal colony for Irish, British, and Scottish.

Their laws are very much different than ours because of that very fact.

Guns are not a part of their culture, at least not like America, and they have their own versions of criminals and heroes, and Ned Kelley comes to mind.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Ned Kelley

Edward "Ned" Kelly (June 1854/June 1855 – 11 November 1880) was an Irish-Australian bushranger, and, to some, a folk hero for his defiance of the colonial authorities.

Kelly was born in Victoria to an Irish convict father, and as a young man he clashed with the Victoria Police.

Following an incident at his home in 1878, police parties searched for him in the bush.

After he killed three policemen, the colony proclaimed Kelly and his gang wanted outlaws. A final violent confrontation with police took place at Glenrowan.

Kelly, dressed in home-made plate metal armour and helmet, was captured and sent to jail. He was hanged for murder at Old Melbourne Gaol in 1880.

His daring and notoriety made him an iconic figure in Australian history, folk lore, literature, art and film.


Kelley, to me, reminds me of our Jesse James, very similar indeed.

Johnny Cash - Ned Kelly



Originally posted by ExPostFacto
What is the difference between Assange and a foreign news corporation that reports stories about the USA. I think if we are a country that believes in rights and laws of other nations, then no matter how damning the information that is obtained is, is a choice that nation needs to make. I have no problem with why you feel like Assange is out of line. I just ponder why our government holds themselves on high proclaiming themselves as faultless, yet works hard to cover what it claims was a simple mistake.


Because a foreign newspaper can be sued and or shut down through political pressure.

And our Government holds itself out as some perfect organization which it is not.

It lies through is teeth and uses propaganda not only against our enemies, but our allies, and against its very people, but by knowing this because of knowing history, Government, Military, and Law Enforcement, is it not better to know what we know because of using our brains?

Instead of breaking the very laws we disagree with why not do something legally?


[edit on 2-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by hippomchippo
I've actually read and enjoyed several of your threads, please don't assume things.


Okay, fair enough, I assumed and should not have done so.


Originally posted by hippomchippo
We differ in opinion, I believe all information should be freely available, and that the state should not keep any secrets besides vital military strategies and equipment.


I believe the same, personally, but I do not see crossing into criminal action as necessary.


Originally posted by hippomchippo
But just curious, and this is going to be my last post, but, how do you expect we obtain this vital information if not by using "lazy" methods that are tried and true such as hacking and breaking into government websites?


I expect people to actually comprehend the laws that are there.

And use common sense in figuring it out.

Because by the very usage of criminal actions, Assange is just as guilty as those citizens that allowed the laws to be changed, by not fighting them legally, because they were too busy watching American Idol.

The bread and circuses cannot be our focus but instead those of Washington D.C.


Originally posted by hippomchippo
He never earned the knowledge he stole? He shouldn't have to earn knowledge about mass spying on U.S citizens, nor should he have to earn knowledge about how our troops are killing civilians abroad.
I had a nice chat, but I must say I strongly disagree with this thread.


You are correct.

It shoud be free to all people.

He should not have had to gained it illicitly.

Information is power.

That is how Government uses it.

But we are accountable with how we gain it, use it, and spread it.

Even if Government is not.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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I would like to know what you thought about the fact that America makes itself less secure and enrages countries like Irag, Afghanistan, and others by killing civilians, and destabilizing them by purposely destroying their infrastructure.

The United States government has, through Executive Orders and congressional acts since Reagan (probably before, but I haven't read about them specifically), made it nearly impossible to obtain damning evidence of folly and even downright treachery on the parts of armed forces overseas.

I just watched a documentary two days ago that outlined something Bush did to the FOIA in his second term.

What I mean to say is, I could go on and on about how the government is making it hard to see through them (see transparency), and that is not the action of a democratic and constitutional government.

Say what you want about Julian Assange doing something illegal. He brought to light what would, according to you, through a little book reading and elbow grease (and the complicity of the United States government and Pentagon to actually have released the footage of Collateral Damage) never would have happened.

Throughout the last fifty years, it has never been the United States government to release damning information about the current military operation or administration. It has been through the Daniel Ellsbergs and the individuals who leaked the Abu Ghraib photos. You think you could have hound dogged the Abu Ghraib photos up from your local library or internet conspiracy forums? Sure.

Now, I'm not saying you can't find congressional bills that have passed, those are in every library in the country, and if you know what you're looking for, you can go right to that bill.

I just think going after Julian Assange for "breaking the law" is some pretty weak sauce. What if he leaks some wires between Hilary Clinton and the Royal Saudi family talking about Osama? Or some wire talking with Israel and the United States talking about when and how they are going to provoke a military slight with Iran to instigate a bombing campaign on Iran? I would like to know, and I think the American people would like to know, and furthermore, I think, as "conspiracy theorists", the legality or the so called immoral methods Julian Assange used to garner this information (he didn't waterboard anybody for the information) would at that point be the least and last of my or anybody's concern. I mean, except for the main stream media who love to ignore the message, but call into analysis the messenger on all accounts.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by franklin555
I would like to know what you thought about the fact that America makes itself less secure and enrages countries like Irag, Afghanistan, and others by killing civilians, and destabilizing them by purposely destroying their infrastructure.


You want to know my thoughts on a foreign policy?

Keep our soldiers feet out of other countries if not for the reason stated.

In other words, if we're there for oil, go there for oil, not "freedom and democracy".

Anything else is complete horse puckey.


Originally posted by franklin555
The United States government has, through Executive Orders and congressional acts since Reagan (probably before, but I haven't read about them specifically), made it nearly impossible to obtain damning evidence of folly and even downright treachery on the parts of armed forces overseas.

I just watched a documentary two days ago that outlined something Bush did to the FOIA in his second term.

What I mean to say is, I could go on and on about how the government is making it hard to see through them (see transparency), and that is not the action of a democratic and constitutional government.


Yes, Executive Orders make it more difficult, at least to people who cannot think.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Exectuve Order

An executive order in the United States is an order issued by the President, the head of the executive branch of the federal government.

In other countries, similar edicts may be known as decrees, or orders-in-council.

Executive orders may also be issued at the state level by a state's Governor or at the local level by the city's Mayor.

U.S. Presidents have issued Executive Orders since 1789, usually to help officers and agencies of the Executive branch manage the operations within the Federal Government itself.

Executive orders do have the full force of law since issuances are typically made in pursuance of certain Acts of Congress, some of which specifically delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation), or are believed to have their authority for issuances based in a power inherently granted to the Executive by the Constitution.

It is these cited or perceived justifications made by a President when authoring Executive Orders that have come under criticism for exceeding Executive authority and have been subject to legal proceedings even at various times throughout U.S. history concerning the legal validity or justification behind an order's issuance


But reading is not against the law and neither is the library.

And for those worried about librarians ratting them out no one said you had to check out the books, you can sit in the library and read them, a loophole.

We have to be smarter than those we oppose not stupider thant them.

You are mistaken though, America is not a democracy, it is a Republic.

We are a Republic that practices democracy, and there is a difference.


Originally posted by franklin555
Say what you want about Julian Assange doing something illegal. He brought to light what would, according to you, through a little book reading and elbow grease (and the complicity of the United States government and Pentagon to actually have released the footage of Collateral Damage) never would have happened.


Really?

I disagree.

The State Department is constantly and consistently sending communications.

24/7/365 days a week.

That is after all their job.

And it takes an education in Government which is not a little reading.

It is extensive knowledge which took 31 years to garner.


Originally posted by franklin555
Throughout the last fifty years, it has never been the United States government to release damning information about the current military operation or administration. It has been through the Daniel Ellsbergs and the individuals who leaked the Abu Ghraib photos. You think you could have hound dogged the Abu Ghraib photos up from your local library or internet conspiracy forums? Sure.


Why do I need pictures of torture happening?

I know damn good and well it happens.

Because I am not some naive idiot believing my Government is benevolent.

But I can suggest books if you want to know what's really going on.

Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Rendition and Torture Program




Amazon Review :

On June 10th, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced that the US had captured a known terrorist who was exploring a plan to explode a "dirty bomb" on American soil.

That alleged terrorist was José Padilla who was finally charged in 2005 with conspiracy to murder.

What Ashcroft didn't talk about was how information against him was obtained – by the relentless torture of one man-- Binyam Mohamed, in the name of the United States.

Arrested at Karachi Airport before Padilla’s arrest on April 10, 2002, Mohamed was put on a luxury executive jet and flown to an interrogation center in Morocco.

For over 18 months, he was subjected to one torture after another: Beating followed beating and, then, his guards produced razor blades and began to split the skin all over his body, including on his genitals.

Since 1997, hundreds of people, many of whom have no ties to terrorist organizations, have been abducted from foreign airports or street corners on suspicions based at times on the flimsiest of evidence courtesy of the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

In Ghost Plane, Stephen Grey tells the true story of the CIA's torture program known by the euphemism "extraordinary rendition" and the airplanes that make the program run.

Begun during the Clinton administration, but taking a decidedly more voracious turn after 9/11, the rendition system has seen the transfer of more than 1000 prisoners into jails stretching from Guantanamo to Syria, from Kabul to Bangkok and beyond.

Grey had access to the thousands of CIA flight records and has interviewed dozens of sources from the most senior levels of the National Security Council to the CIA.

In Ghost Plane, he paints a disturbing picture of the War on Terror that reaches to the highest levels of power in Washington, D.C. and exposes the extreme ethical corruption at the heart of this US government program, a program finally acknowledged by President George Bush in September 2006, undertaken in the name of the citizens of the United States.


And there are plane tail numbers and indepedent contractors information in the book.


Originally posted by franklin555
Now, I'm not saying you can't find congressional bills that have passed, those are in every library in the country, and if you know what you're looking for, you can go right to that bill.


I guess that is where you and I differ since I prefer the investigating.

Hunting for the information is much more fun because you discover the truth.

And therefore you find your own truth not something which might get you killed.


Originally posted by franklin555
I just think going after Julian Assange for "breaking the law" is some pretty weak sauce. What if he leaks some wires between Hilary Clinton and the Royal Saudi family talking about Osama? Or some wire talking with Israel and the United States talking about when and how they are going to provoke a military slight with Iran to instigate a bombing campaign on Iran? I would like to know, and I think the American people would like to know, and furthermore, I think, as "conspiracy theorists", the legality or the so called immoral methods Julian Assange used to garner this information (he didn't waterboard anybody for the information) would at that point be the least and last of my or anybody's concern. I mean, except for the main stream media who love to ignore the message, but call into analysis the messenger on all accounts.


So, you're asking me if he releases gossip and hearsay of Clinton and the House of Saud, you might find this interesting, because that to me is weak.

And of course Israel is going to instigate Iran that's not news.

It's a Tom and Jerry re-run on Saturday morning cartoons.

Tom And Jerry: The Tom And Jerry Cartoon Kit (1962)


It is not a matter of if, but when they will do this, and it is rather predictable.



Waterboaring is Dick Cheney's job because he's a criminal.

Assange is now however in the same boat as Cheney.

Because something breaking the law deserves the company.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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SKL, I disagree.

If a law is unjust, then is should be ignored or broken, and there are only 600,000 or so of them. We are already legislated to death.

You say play the game, their game, by the rules yet those rules are constantly changing in favor of the corporation/government. You give us MLK in that video. Um, er, dude, you do know they frakking killed him, right?

We cannot play the game anymore as they own the teams, the umps, the stadium and the bats, balls and gloves to play with.

I don't see this war on We The People being won by playing their game by their rules. Playing nice isn't getting us anywhere.

Would you think different of the hacker getting into a corporate network and exposing their dirty deeds, such as BP and their current situation? Is that wrong? Why does the government, a bunch of lying, thieving crooks not unlike the corporations, get a pass?



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Assange is now however in the same boat as Cheney.


Thats a joke right??????

No reasonable person would put Assange up with Cheney...

One works for the people, the other for his and his mates interests...
I'd hope I didn't need to point out which is which...



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by TheLoony
 


I agree...
And I wonder if the OP can explain all the laws that confict with the Constitition, are we to obey them also ???



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


MemoryShock said it best and I will leave it at that other than to comment on this : "So, if ATS hosted something originally found on Wikileaks, you do not see the problem? "

No , I don't see this as a problem at all . If it is originally on Wikileaks , it is in public domain already .

If one of our many quickdraw , ignorance-denying members here on ATS cover a story before the government does , where is the harm in that ?

Be assured that ATS will not be the only site covering any breaking news from Wikileaks . ATS will not be shut down due to anything that was gathered in the public domain ., the only way this would be accomplished is if the infamous 'kill switch' were implemented .

There will be many sites publishing this much-awaited news from Wiki .
Let's make sure ATS is the FIRST .

It is the possibility of a lifetime ., a house-cleaning long overdue .

It is high time that we the people of the world , know what they the rulers of the world , have in store for us . Period . The game has been going the other way for way too long . It is time .

The finest reporters on the web are to be found right here on ATS . If the governments of the world can't compete with that , too bad .



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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sometimes fighting fire with fire works. in the physical world, no, but in ideas, yes. it doesn't matter how he obtained the documents, the prime fact is that illegal activities and war crimes are being covered up.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 



One man's terrorist is other man's freedom fighter!

Enough said!



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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So what's the difference between them and Law Enforcement Officers who vreak the law to get a conviction, such as drug dealing in order to get to "Mr Big"? Or LEO's speeding to catch a speeding driver

You seem to be saying that any such conviction would be thrown out of court, because the conviction was obtained illegally.

I completely disagree with your premise, even though it was well presented.

The best way to fight fire is with fire.

Another thought. What if the covering up of any info is actually illegal? The only way to get that illegally concealed info out (ie make it legal) is to break the law. What then?

The only answer to this is the age old line we get fed whenever our freedoms are curtailed, or new powers are given to the authorities:
"If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to fear".

The mere act of making it secret is seems to indicate that TPTB are doing/have done something wrong.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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OP, I stopped reading as soon as you said Hackers and Crackers are criminals.

Get your head out of that place on your body where the sun never shines. Hackers do more for the security of the computer and network field than any of those freakin bookworm wannabe engineers.

Crackers are the ones that pose a threat to computer security.

Those of you who would lump hackers and crackers in the same bag disgust me and are the prime example of idiocy and stupidity and spread such ignorance to others and ruin the credibility of legitimate hackers that are trying everyday to protect you from the people that would steal your identity.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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Assange is a man with a conscience. He is doing what must be done by anyone with a heart and a brain (and decent-sized balls too). He has copious amounts of both (or all three, really) and he's not afraid to use them. I can't say as much for his critics though. If only more would aspire to his heights...

If these governments were acting themselves in a legal/moral/ethical fashion with our best interests at heart, then they should have nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be ashamed of. When they have to work this hard to hide their machinations, we surely must take time to consider what it is they are doing that merits such secrecy. It's not that their enemies don't already know what they're up to - they most certainly do! It's that they don't want us to know. Why would that be, O Solid Citizens?! Think for a while.

I give him conscious support every moment of the day. What he's doing must be done. It's simply astounding that anyone would think otherwise. I'm afraid this speaks directly to his critics about their Heart/brain/balls. Be advised!



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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Well, like you, I also like to see both sides. And know both sides... Everything has 2 sides. I don`t agree with the activities of anyone who breaks the law, but I know they are just a product of their environment. Ever seen the movie "trading places"? I believe in that... if I had the resources, I could take a street criminal and turn him into a gentleman, and vice versa. Ya know, when you hear about a suicide bomber, you dont know what led them to that point. Maybe his/her whole family was killed by a US drone strike... many strikes like these have killed civilians, ya kno? What would you do? That, of course, would depend on your CIRCUMSTANCES. nobody understands circumstance. Circumstance is probably the biggest difference between any of us. That`s why I find it hard to pass judgement on others. That doesn`t mean I believe that no action should be taken when a wrong is commited. But that corrective action should be taken, not vengeful action. Sending someone to prison is just a way for society to get revenge on the person who broke its rules. It doesn`t solve the problem. Of course its all more complicated because we are so far gone from where we should be... I almost think it might take an apocalyptic event to get us to let go of this dream everyone seems to have where they will be rich and famous... and all of their problems will go away. They will have all kinds of people who will tend to their needs. There`s just one problem with this dream. Where does this dream leave the rest of humanity,? How about your servants? How many people must consume their day with tending to your needs & wants before you are "happy"? Where`s the equality there?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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Oh and by the way, if Wikileaks releases something, I highly doubt it will be the locations and launch codes of all our nukes... it will be evidence of CRIMES committed by governments. So he shouldnt break laws while trying to expose criminals? So the FBI shouldn`t break into people`s houses and place wiretaps and the new york mafias should still be in power because since they got "assanged" it wasnt fair and the FBI broke the law... oh wait, no they CREATED NEW LAWS allowing their behavior... damn why didnt assange think of that! Face it, Assange was CREATED by corrupt governments... his existenc e is a direct reflection of the existence of corruption and criminal activity within our governments... the people we trusted!


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by TheLoony
SKL, I disagree.


That is fine by me.


Originally posted by TheLoony
If a law is unjust, then is should be ignored or broken, and there are only 600,000 or so of them. We are already legislated to death.


That is my point exactly, we are already legislated, and he makes it worse.

Yes, I agree, if a law is unjust, it is wrong, however, ignoring it will not make it go away, fighting it legally will, however, as mentioned previously forming a non-profit, then a policy think-tank to actually form policy, thereby fighting the laws will do much, much more because it will be using the law to fight the law, something that Government cannot stop.

They can fight it, sure, but if we use law, we not only use a legal measure, but one that can be backed up, by legal means, giving them little avenue for recourse.


Originally posted by TheLoony
You say play the game, their game, by the rules yet those rules are constantly changing in favor of the corporation/government. You give us MLK in that video. Um, er, dude, you do know they frakking killed him, right?


No, I never called this a game, as a matter of fact, I said quite the opposite.

This is not some game, if we treat it as a game, then we have already lost.

I do not see life, or conspiracy theories as a game, I see them as literal as life and death.

The rules of Government, corporate ruled, change, because we do nothing about them, but complain, whine, and bitch, sitting on our haunches.

You cannot expect they will ever stay the same, because they will not, the world changes, daily, which is why I say we have to fight them, but fight them via a mean they quite honestly never expect us to, because so many people within this community already do just that, nothing.

Politically.

Do you realize, our community has enough intelligence within it to make a huge policy think-tank, to change the laws, because of our combined level of knowledge of politics, yet we do not because people believe to become a lawmaker means you must be corrupt and criminal?

That is stupid.

Lawmaker's are not inherently corrupt or criminal.

The groups they run with, the Secret Societies are, those who put them into power.

And if we never put anyone into power, we are not representing ourselves.

Now are we?

There is zero need for Secret Societies, except as a means to grease the wheels.

Our community, as a whole, the conspiracy theory community, collectively has more combined, worldwide political knowledge, and we can change the world, but not if all we do is talk, without the follow-up walk.

And yes, I know M.L.K. was killed, Hoover had him hilled, because he was succeeding.

He used non-criminal tactics, he used the law against itself, admirable if you ask me.


Originally posted by TheLoony
We cannot play the game anymore as they own the teams, the umps, the stadium and the bats, balls and gloves to play with.


Again, it is not a game, it is life and death, period.

By your own terminology, you expect us to sit outside, peeking through a fence.

Knotholes are for losers who cannot actually stand for their convictions.

I stand for my convictions, I want change, legal change, not more legislation.

Assange will guarantee more legislation, the kind that stops freedom, not guaranteeing more of it, because his actions are the kind they can carve up.

And serve on a platter will more funding for themselves, more restrictions on Internet communications, and over all the death knell of free speech.


Originally posted by TheLoony
I don't see this war on We The People being won by playing their game by their rules. Playing nice isn't getting us anywhere.


I have never suggested anyone play nice, because I have never suggested we "play" at anything, if you think I am playing here, you are mistaken.

Yes, there is a war on, it is called the War on Terror, or War on Terra if you break it down, meaning a War on Earth, and it will not be won with bullets.

But with brains.


Originally posted by TheLoony
Would you think different of the hacker getting into a corporate network and exposing their dirty deeds, such as BP and their current situation? Is that wrong? Why does the government, a bunch of lying, thieving crooks not unlike the corporations, get a pass?


Yes, I would think that was wrong, because anyone with half a brain knows corporations lie, that is half of their business model and format for profit.

To lie.

A product costs them X amount, they charge Y, and make a profit, they lie.

BP PLC is a corporate fraud, I do not need a hacker/cracker to tell me that.

Corporate practice is commonly known to spend as little as possible, while ignoring maintenance procedures, hoping beyond hope that nothing breaks.

It is called maximizing profits.

And also fraud through insurance means.

Government, just as much as corporations, does not get any free pass.

They lie it is a part of the business format and model.

If however you want them to stop lying, you cannot lie to make it stop.

It is now a learned behavior, something done by rote, to stop their lying to us as a populace, however, you must show them we are not listening.

People as a whole are ignorant to believe Government will represent our best interests.

This is because Government is made up of people, people who are fallible.

And if we use our combined knowledge to step into the political fight?

Politics is ultimately about who can change policy, we have a choice in that matter.

I can write policy in my sleep.

And make it stick.

This community has enough people who know how to write.

This community has enough people who know the law.

This community has enough people who know how Goverment flouts law.

This community has enough people who know the real history.

This community has enough people who can act together legally.

If only they believed in themselves enough to actually act legally.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Assange is now however in the same boat as Cheney.


Thats a joke right??????

No reasonable person would put Assange up with Cheney...

One works for the people, the other for his and his mates interests...
I'd hope I didn't need to point out which is which...


No, actually both work against the people, Cheney because of corruption.

Assange because he broke the law.

Both are the same as far as I am concerned.

Cheney deserves to be locked in Guantanamo because he is a liability to humankind.

Assange has assisted in researching for a book called :

Underground: Tales of Hacking, Madness and Obsession on the Electronic Frontier .

The movie below is based upon it.

Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 1/6


Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 2/6


Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 3/6


Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 4/6


Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 5/6


Interview - In the Realm of Hackers 6/6


The bottom line is hacking, more specifically, cracking, criminal hacking, is illegal.

Period.

That is not conspiracy theorizing.

It is done only for the means of breaking into a computer.

Usually to commit criminal actions.

And if a law conflicts with the Constitution, fight it, legally.

If it violates the United States Constitution, then the law will back you up.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 06:58 AM
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I'm not going to delve too much into this thread. I read your post OP and you do make valid points... while you somehow miss the reality of the causes of it all. you state that you are a middle man, who chooses to understand both sides, which is an admirable thing to do... if you truly did understand them both, which is obviously something you do not.

You criminalize Julian Assange's campaigne yet fail to realize who his campaigne is against, and if it comes down to who the true element of criminality is, I'd think that someone who is as intelligent as yourself would understand that the governments that Julian Assange has exposed have been the ULTIMATE in criminality from the very gate.

IF GOVERNMENTS WERE NOT AS CRIMINAL AS THEY ARE, PEOPLE LIKE JULIAN ASSANGE WOULD NOT EXIST, NOR WOULD THEIR CAMPAIGNES BE AS NOTEABLE



As it is, Julian has actually become the most noteable figure in history to blatantly have taken on the position he has, a one man army, fighting a war (against the odds) against the very root of this planets evils.

Julian Assange is doing his job... as a journalist, lol... and he's doing it just like any other journalist should be doing it... ruthlessly, against a ruthless establishment.

Can you imagine if Julian Assange actually worked for the government?


Not to say he's some super hero, or specialty shop show case... however I will say this about the man...

He's got the moves, he's got the intelligence, and he's obviously got the connections... and he's doing what EVERY person who has those things should be doing, as it in reality is thier duty to do so due to the position they have been allowed to be in...

and that would be to use thier assets in support of those not so well to do, not so well informed, or not so well educated.

If you can stop for a second and picture this: Julian Assange is literally fighting GodZilla, with a LongSword.

Julian Assange isn't the one doing the "Hacking" or "Cracking"... He's the one those folks go to to release what they RISKED THIER LIVES to get.

And finally..... you mention concern about documentation in his possession that would expose the United States of America in some unheardof manner where all the teeth in the world will come chomping it's way to our shores to gobble us up...

Well, if the information wasn't so

CRIMINALLY DAMAGING

then people wouldn't be that upset now would they? So, I ask you... who are the real criminals here? Did you even get a clue yet, mr. "Divide and Conquer"?

oh yeah.... and the comment you made about Those "innocent" men and women over in the gulf fighting wars on "our" (**Cough*Bu*lsh*T**) behalf...

I'm sure you're referring to the ones that have been repeatedly exposed for Murdering innocent civilians, raping innocent women - AND CHILDREN - destroying an entire country's benevolence via DEPLEATED URANIUM, torturing unarmed and incarcerated civilians, shooting mothers, raping sons, and obliterating entire families via phosphoric demise, murdering journalists, deep frying fathers, scalping clerics, and mutilating animals...

Are those the ones you're referring to?

If you consider these people innocent, I'm of the mind to tell you that while I had some respect for you before, I've pretty much lost that respect for you, and am at a loss to understand why someone as brilliant as yourself has fallen unto the level of disgrace I see you at now... I truly do.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


Like I have stated before to several other members, this is not a game.

If you're treating it as a game, you have lost, period.

And I could care less if Assange had concrete evidence of aliens in Area-51.

Or if he could prove President Barack Obama was actually Osama bin Laden.

Hiding in plain sight.

His intent and original motive might have been brilliant, however the means in which he obtained that information is clearly breaking the laws.

Period.

The History Of Hacking Documentary 1/5


The History Of Hacking Documentary 2/5


The History Of Hacking Documentary 3/5


The History Of Hacking Documentary 4/5


The History Of Hacking Documentary 5/5


If Assange or any other member of the hacking/cracking community were doing it for more than criminal behaviors, I might see him as a viable person.

However, he is not doing anything we cannot figure out on our own, period.

Using your brain is the best means of figuring things out.

If you cannot understand policy, procedure, and protocol then how can you actually change the laws for a positive, if you want them changed?

You cannot.

The Government has nothing planned but our putting ourselves in prison.





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