German with Hitler ringtone faces jail

reply to post by The Wave


Exactly. The new generation of germans are still feeling shame for what the nazis did even though it was 40 years before their time. I think germany has set a perfect example of how a backwards nation can change itself into one of the most ethically developed countries in the world.

AS usual some peoples alway forget how it started in History (yes with a major H) lemme remind you that famous night when the Nazis started to burn books, destroy a certain types of paintings, etc etc etc

An now somes here on ATS are acting all shocked because that man used a speech of Adolph Hitler as a ringtone, even if that man have a weird sense of humor , even if he is serious, he dont deserve that time in jail, because if we start to think into that direction, soon we all gonna think the same way, acknowledging to every rights they're takin away.

Remember, when the nazis started ti burn books, the population was following the rules and was ok with it, a minority of the population, that true, but a part of it, still.

Anyways,germny dont have to be blamed forever, germany dont have to erase its history,if we start to erase the history, we never gonna learn.

Voltaire was saying one thing: I do not agree with your point of view but i would fight to death to protect your rights to say it out loud

How would people feel if someone in America had the sound of the planes slamming into the World Trade Centres as a ringtone on their phone?

Originally posted by Pryde87
reply to post by The Wave

 

Exactly. The new generation of germans are still feeling shame for what the nazis did even though it was 40 years before their time. I think germany has set a perfect example of how a backwards nation can change itself into one of the most ethically developed countries in the world.

They don't, but they are afraid of being called Nazi. I've had many discussions with my German friends on this while living in Germany. Guess why Germany hardly ever criticize Israel? Guess why Germany still sells Israel military hardware at an extremely high discount?

Originally posted by Kram09
How would people feel if someone in America had the sound of the planes slamming into the World Trade Centres as a ringtone on their phone?

What is your point?

In the United States that is perfectly legal - you have no right not to be offended.

People who are against the Constitution and Bill of Rights offend me and hurt my feelings.

reply to post by Pryde87

The new generation of germans are still feeling shame for what the nazis did even though it was 40 years before their time.

I haven't gotten that impression talking with German people. They acknowledge that that time period is a huge mar on their history and naturally very tragic, but they don't feel any shame for it. Why should they? They didn't do anything. It's sort of like how I don't feel any shame for the actions of some back during the Civil War.

Hittler would love some of the facists running Germany to had been on his staff.

Our police today make the SS police look like boy scouts.

Do they think that if they supress history and only feed us their version that everyone will forget.

Facts are, like it or not Hittler had the backing of a lot of Germans at the time for good reason but the power went to his head when he put all them russians in the concentration camps.

Some here seem to think, that the German law is only created to put a big blanket over the past.

This is not true. The last years of my time at school I had to chew this part of history again and again. Also on tv this time is reflected every now and then.

Indeed that paragraph (StGB § 86a) is not especially against Nazi symbols, but against symbols of "unconstitutional organisations".
It is also not said, that this guy faces three years in prison now, because this would be the highest possible penalty and the judge will have to decide if and how long this guy would go to jail, if he only had to pay some money, or if this is NOT a case of the mentioned paragraph.

Concerning PC games: Yes, indeed, the game Wolfenstein was confiscated in 1994, but it was only forbidden to sell it. People, who owned a copy were not bothered. Meanwhile this is time-barred, but the game is still on the index of "youth endangering contents".

Former games lead to criminal procedures, too, but either ended in a monetary fine or even in acquittal, because it was seen as an "antifacist game".

I believe firmly that 'To Each Their Own', if that is what they believe in than so be it.

I am gonna work on that theory that he has not harmed anyone, all he has done is have a ringtone and photo on his phone.

I myself am a Juggalo, I listen to Insane Clown Posse, they have spent the last 15 odd years rapping about the Dark Carnival and the 6 jokers cards that reflect the face of humanity...

In short, does me listening to them, having there pictures on my Iphone and tattoo on my arm contradict society's belief's so must in turn eventuate in the confiscation of all items I have pertaining to the Dark Carnival belief..

To categorize me would be a fallacious practice, because I am a proud christian!! My practicing social habits, albeit to represent my association with the Juggalo Family, or in this chaps case, to show a swastika on this phone, it is wrong.

reply to post by octotom


What you say is true. I dont mean they actively feel guilty all the time, but when a discussion of the 2nd world war comes up they feel embarassed, or when a joke is cracked about the war then they sometimes dont find it funny because it is a shameful time for them and their nation. I didnt mean that they felt personally guilty or ashamed, but it has dented their ability to show pride in their country.

reply to post by octotom


What you say is true. I dont mean they actively feel guilty all the time, but when a discussion of the 2nd world war comes up they feel embarassed, or when a joke is cracked about the war then they sometimes dont find it funny because it is a shameful time for them and their nation. I didnt mean that they felt personally guilty or ashamed, but it has dented their ability to show pride in their country.

Originally posted by Pryde87
reply to post by octotom

 

What you say is true. I dont mean they actively feel guilty all the time, but when a discussion of the 2nd world war comes up they feel embarassed, or when a joke is cracked about the war then they sometimes dont find it funny because it is a shameful time for them and their nation. I didnt mean that they felt personally guilty or ashamed, but it has dented their ability to show pride in their country.

Let's be quite blunt about it. Germany, along with much of Europe, doesn't have the history of democracy that we enjoy in North America. Nor has North America been regularly flattened by wars and strife. Fascism and antisemitism have been tools for control in Europe, and the German people have been the primary patsies for the two great wars of the last century. I say patsies because it is quite apparent that money showed no loyalty in either war. The relationship with Israel is a debt acknowledged, even though the majority of the world's civilised nations did little to help the European Jews.The anti-nazi laws serve the purpose of stomping down any of these tendencies that threaten to re-emerge and endanger the present German state.

There were those in power who wanted, after both wars, to dissolve the country and salt the earth. Good thing for Germany that post WW2, the Russians were such a threat to European stability that Germany was rebuilt...albeit as a buffer...instead.

Germany has an obligation dictated by it's recent history to be a strong proponent of anti fascism, and to fight its rallying symbology wherever encountered within the state. That may sound menacing to Americans...but the last time they had a foreign army torch the White House was in the War of 1812. (Sorry about that bit of unpleasantness, eh?) It is also the price to pay for rebuilding and enjoying German national pride without the rest of the world seeing it as a threat.

The guy with the ring tone was no naif...he pushed the limits and got smacked down. Gut.

i cant imagine calling the police because someones ringtone which lasts a few seconds at most upset me....

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Germany has an obligation dictated by it's recent history to be a strong proponent of anti fascism, and to fight its rallying symbology wherever encountered within the state. That may sound menacing to Americans...but the last time they had a foreign army torch the White House was in the War of 1812. (Sorry about that bit of unpleasantness, eh?)

Hello Canuck,

a bit of perspective:

I was born in Russia and members of my family fought and died in WWII, not to mention a big part of the country was devastated. I have no sympathy for Nazis etc. Still, I don't see Germany as having any obligation at all to be a proponent of anything. They suffered badly as well, they don't like Nazis much either, and they are a modern and prosperous nation.

It is also the price to pay for rebuilding and enjoying German national pride without the rest of the world seeing it as a threat.

I disagree. On the opposite, it looks and sounds neurotic.

I don't understand this view that germans today should somehow feel ashamed of WW2 either. Germans today are some of the nicest and most intelligent people you will ever meet in the world and have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about, the way in which WW2 is exploited to try and make them feel bad is disgusting...even more disgusting is Jewish organizations controlled by Israel siphoning billions from Germany through blackmail, not to help the very few survivors of the holocaust(survivor numbers are extremely exaggerated) but to line their own pockets. I think if you asked most Germans they would have no problem with this man and his ring tone, i don't think they would even care about someone disputing the numbers involved in the holocaust(which is illegal in germany i think) it is pressure from other countries that makes them feel ashamed for thinking that people have the right to believe these things and through their silence it allows people to take advantage of them imo.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Solomons]

Originally posted by Solomons
I don't understand this view that germans today should somehow feel ashamed of WW2 either. Germans today are some of the nicest and most intelligent people you will ever meet in the world and have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about, the way in which WW2 is exploited to try and make them feel bad is disgusting...even more disgusting is Jewish organizations controlled by Israel siphoning billions from Germany through blackmail, not to help the very few survivors of the holocaust(survivor numbers are extremely exaggerated) but to line their own pockets. I think if you asked most Germans they would have no problem with this man and his ring tone, i don't think they would even care about someone disputing the numbers involved in the holocaust(which is illegal in germany i think) it is pressure from other countries that makes them feel ashamed for thinking that people have the right to believe these things and through their silence it allows people to take advantage of them imo.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Solomons]

I am one of those "nicest and most intelligent people", Solomons (Thanks for that!) and I am not ashamed because of the German past. We had a lot of very great authors, philosophers and scientists. We always were important for Europe. And if we see the old Germans as our forefathers, than we also stopped the Roman Empire.

What makes me being ashamed are those - few - youngsters, who see those Nazi times as the best times of our country and wish to be in the same situation: Chasing away foreigner or even kill them. That hurts me. And it is hard to wave the German flagg and say "I am proud to be German", when such a guy is standing beside you and shouts the same and adds: "Adolf forever!" - This is the reason, why I feel ashamed.

Right now, Germany is rather proud. Because of simple things, like winning the Eurovision Song Contest and seeing that our young football team does it pretty well over there in South Africa. German flaggs can be seen again. Others follow that example and dare to show their flaggs, too: Turkish, Argentinian, Australian... I saw nearly every nation showing flaggs now, even if they are not part of the World Championship. That's a good development! This is the Germany of today and we can be proud of it - together with all those emigrants, who are from other nations. I like it that way.

Having someone in between, who has Adolf Hitler as a ringtone really is disturbing that new development. Maybe he can do it in a few years, but I doubt it, because there are still some people, who suffered from that guy so much, that they are shocked to hear his voice as a ringing phone.

reply to post by Solomons


Germans should feel ashamed that only roughly half a century ago they practised genocide and committed some hideous crimes against humanity. The moment that is forgotten, history will repeat itself.

As an aside I've noticed that some of the Stormfront dual-reggers have been active in this thread.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Goathief]

Originally posted by Siddharta
Having someone in between, who has Adolf Hitler as a ringtone really is disturbing that new development. Maybe he can do it in a few years, but I doubt it, because there are still some people, who suffered from that guy so much, that they are shocked to hear his voice as a ringing phone.

I have a privilege of knowing an ethnic Hungarian who joined the Soviet Army at age 16 and fought Nazi Germany for most of the war, and had the incredible luck of actually making it. He ended up being a commander of a company by the war's end because his superiors were all killed and he was repeatedly promoted. He learned German while being stationed in Berlin. I don't doubt that he saw and experienced much pain and suffering. What I doubt is that he would be "shocked" by mere voice of Adolf. Amused - maybe.

The whole suppression on any physical evidence (insignia, or even sounds) of Nazi's prior existence in Germany seems quite pathological to me, and can be the result of external factors.

reply to post by Goathief


Remembering history and being burdened by it are two completely different things. Every country has committed untold atrocities, whether directly or indirectly. The atrocities committed by Nazi Germany have absolutely nothing to do with the great and vibrant Germany and it's peoples that we see today.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by Solomons


I'd argue that it does indeed relate to the vibrant, tolerant Germany we see today. Without the horrors of the past and it's subsequent rebuilding, would the country be so progressive?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that history should stop Germany being a great nation, far from it - but to ignore one's history entirely (especially as it's within living memory) is madness.