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When is the time when enough is enough? A look at Armed Revolution in Modern USA

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posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


You may call it nonsense, and from your perspective you may be right. I was not as clear as I would have liked to be. When I say "out gunned" I can best describe that with a question. How does my glock.40 compete with a M16 and predator drones? That is what I mean by out gunned. It is a fact that Americans have more firearms than the military, but you can not compare the firearms of the average citizen to the fire power of the US Military.

We have learned from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan that small pocket insurgencies do work, but I am attempting to look and understand the bigger picture. Even IF the people were able to oust the American Government, then what? As I said in my opening post, it's not like you can look to other American Politicians to fill these needed areas, for the system is corrupt from the top to the bottom. Also as I said in my opening post, the Founding Fathers have already shown us the way, they said it is our duty at this point in time to start over. Is it that even a realistic possibility in this day and age? Of that I am not so sure.

Like a few other posters have said, I too wonder if it is simply too late. I think it is fair to say that none of us want armed conflict, I know I do not, but what other choices are left at this point? Nothing else seems to be working. I myself would rather stand up, fight and lose, than to have done nothing.




posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 01:46 AM
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Real quickly I want to thank everyone who is participating in this thread. I am sorry I can not respond to each and every one who has posted at this time (I am at work and posted the OP right before I left the house. I was actually late getting to work trying to get that posted) but I will spend more time on this thread reading and attempting to discuss the issue I have posed.

I also want to say I am very happy that cooler heads are prevailing on thsi thread and we are able to discuss this without all the craziness that sometimes comes along with such a topic. So, thank you.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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Are you all Brainwashed by the Tea Party

There is only one party that is trying to bring normality down and that is the Republican Party, they dont want us (the Working Class that is ) to have Money ,,,but under George Bush they allowed the Rich to swipe and Grab as much money as they liked ILLEGALLY ,,, WALL STREET THAT IS,, and now somehow Sara Pallin and here like are saying that A// Obama is equal to Hitler ,,and B// Obama is the cause of the wall street crash,,

Hitler chose to plan to kill Millons of Jews by Concentration camp and Brutality With Public Knowledge,, he wanted to invade the World killing Hundreds of thousands of German and Various Nations People ,,Just because he wanted too ,,, no other reason, and allowed so called Doctors to Experiment on Live People to breed the German arian race,,, all in the space of 6 or 7 years.
Compare this to what Obama has done ,,, which is nothing,, really nothing at all,,,,,,, The Gulf Oil spill is not his fault no one in his Government was in control of the Rig ,,,,does anyone dispute this .
The oil Industry were !!!!! and Dick Cheney in his time held secret Talks with the oil Industy about what we may never know..

What are sarah palin's Policies does any one have them written down is
"They are taking our Country away from us " that all it is
The Democrats have in there time Passed Historically " Medicare and Medicaid " they have passed "Social Security " "Unemployment Benefit" "Health Care then and know " ,,,,Bearing in mind that the ' Working Class ' represent 60% or more of the Voting People in this country,, were is the Problem ..... 80% of all shares in Wall Street are owned by 6% of the Wealthiest people in the USA They are the ones ruining our Country and the Republican Party are trying there level best to keep them all happy

Want to Carry a gun in Macdonald's ,, then your dangerous and stupid,, lets arm all the children in Macdonald's as well ????? yes,, this is the Tea Party's Ideology .... I say if remotely this was all true " Ship in the National Guard and rockets and tanks and lets bring it on !!!!



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by andeemac2009
Want to Carry a gun in Macdonald's ,, then your dangerous and stupid,


Yes, because crazed shooters don't hit up McDonald's right? oh wait!



and guess where this happened. Obama's home town, Chicago. Who just so happens, post supreme court decision, decided to create the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.

I guess law abiding citizens should be able to defend themselves because the cops are only 5 or so minutes away.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by andeemac2009
 


I have not been brainwashed by any party, any person's ideology, or anything of the like.

In my world you are free to believe anything you like. That is one of the great things about having freedom. However, this thread has nothing to do with Parties of any kind. Tea party, Republican Party or Democratic Party. Maybe your post belongs in one of the many threads that do exist on that topic, this is not one of them.

I would also suggest really stopping and thinking about what you are trying to say and reading your post and editing as needed. Your post is all over the place. You say the Republican party is the way to go, yet you open your post with the robbing of this nation's wealth under the Bush administration. That makes zero sense. So thanks for your reply, but it is probably better suited on another thread.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by mandella1099
 
the problem is the rider already went, riding back in 1984, no one listened ,not that it fell on death ears, nor of the book, but of the time, "it is too soon " "the time has not come" and the best for last "i do not see the mark of the beast" well do you now? how can you put out a fire when it is now a blaze with only a cup? SHTF, is up and running, it is a way thought, belief, and of will, do not fear for we have nothing to fear but fear it self, and that my good reader is the key, fear, that is what will get you. Keep an open eye, listen with one ear, say everything, every were, for they can not be every were at once. do not be a sheep, be a wolf.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by [davinci]
 

I understand where you're coming from. I guess that after reading all the posts what I'm driving at is that everyone seems to give more credit than credit is due to the people above.

Don't want to be rounded up. We're all on lists. They have all the marbles. Every post made good points but all in all there is some mystique given the powers and abilities of the Federal government that I just can't see.

Mind you this is the same bunch that is throwing million dollar bills around like Halloween candy. Get caught playing footsy in public bathrooms. Stand at a town hall meetings and insult constituents. Send billions in cash to Afghanastan where 80% goes towards bribes, graft and corruption and the rest they just blow.

Our military leaders look to their retirements and fight unwinnable wars all the while knowing they can't be won. How is it that they could have any moral conviction in what they do? The president wants to grandstand and delay any troop draw down until it's election time. He's gonna waste some lives.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to put the Taliban on the payroll and cut out all the middle men? Wouldn't it save lives?

What I'm driving at and maybe not doing to good a job of is that we tend to see everything in terms of conspiracy. I'd agree that at some point there has to be one or two going on but I believe that we give these people way more credit for being intelligent enough to do this than they deserve. What most people see as conspiracy I see as the workings of a collective of psychotic idiots.

The feeble minded have elected themselves to office. Insanity is rife at the Pentagon. We've spent ourselves into the next century ten years into the current one.

What makes anyone think that these guys are bright enough to turn on a light? Listen to them speak. They're morons- greedy morons. And "somebody" elected them. What's that make us?

In a situation like this where the not so bright meet on the hypothetical battlefield you have to bet on the stupid with the greatest numbers. If that offends anyone I don't apologize. Collectively we are stupid people.

But, like I said, we have the greatest numbers. You can only fool so many for so long. I'm not to worried about things.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:58 AM
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I do remember the anti-Vietnam war manifestations in USA and elsewere in the world, but it seems to me that up there in USA you cannot get any longer a lot of people into action, peacefull but with important masses of people, nobody gets really upset any more, yeah in their kitchen maybe they revolt against Obama or the government but in the streets ???
Anyway, this has NOTHING to do with Obama, I find we may not accuse him for all the problems up there, he is also a citizen like you in the first place, he didn't build this world like it is nowadays.
The most responsible guys are the neocons and the big corporations that can buy every politician to vote their own agenda : all the benefit for them, all the losses for the people, no ecological responsability, just big big benefits ... Reagan, Bush, Tatcher, they all did destroy our societies by diminishing the power of the State, of OUR State, WE are the State !!!
What to do against all this crap ?? first of all change the laws that permit the politicians to get lots of money for voting against the people's intrest and in the profit of the big corporations !!! should be the first point !!
Elections are necessary to elect politicians that represent the people, not teh big corporations !! everything is rotten up there because $$$$$ are corrupting everything, no morality any longer, just lies and deceit, manipulation and doubletalk, first change that, the rest will follow.
But people have to get into the streets or create something like the stupid tea parties but you should call them the " tease parties " to tease the powers that kill our lives !! Halliburton - BP - etc etc etc ....... they are the fools to kick in the ass !!! Peace - hope left somewhere ?



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:08 AM
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So with all things considered, what would it take? Is violent revolution even a realistic possibility anymore? If not, then what?

Gday Everyone :O) My very 1st post...
possible solution...
Lets just say that if one by one, the ppl that needed removing from power simply were ~removed~ ; the replacement filling the position may be very weary to assert action where it is needed, and fall back in line with being of value to the population. They would find a new level of commitment to do the right thing-- always knowing that they themselves as per their predecessors are never beyond simply being ~removed~. Its a shame there isnt a society currently able to fulfill this process, but hey..who knows when it may
...Im just saying



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 





You may call it nonsense, and from your perspective you may be right. I was not as clear as I would have liked to be. When I say "out gunned" I can best describe that with a question. How does my glock.40 compete with a M16 and predator drones? That is what I mean by out gunned. It is a fact that Americans have more firearms than the military, but you can not compare the firearms of the average citizen to the fire power of the US Military.


Once again nonsense! You don't have an AR15? Your behind the curve son. They are the IBM PC of rifles lots of people make them and the parts are mostly interchangeable. Americans have every rifle the military does many of them fully automatic. Predator drones will come down with 50 cals. and as I said many veterans have the same training or better and will acquire what ever toys we don't have from the enemy.



We have learned from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan that small pocket insurgencies do work, but I am attempting to look and understand the bigger picture.


What bigger picture are you talking about? Those countries have mobilized to fight a superior enemy and that superior enemy with all it's high tech and fire power can't route them out. The Russians killed 1.5 million Afghanis and what good did it do them? The only bigger picture is there are more of us and we are better armed, better trained and more resourceful! We have guys with whole machine shops n their garage for Pete sake.


Even IF the people were able to oust the American Government, then what? As I said in my opening post, it's not like you can look to other American Politicians to fill these needed areas, for the system is corrupt from the top to the bottom. Also as I said in my opening post, the Founding Fathers have already shown us the way, they said it is our duty at this point in time to start over. Is it that even a realistic possibility in this day and age? Of that I am not so sure. Like a few other posters have said, I too wonder if it is simply too late. I think it is fair to say that none of us want armed conflict, I know I do not, but what other choices are left at this point? Nothing else seems to be working. I myself would rather stand up, fight and lose, than to have done nothing.


You answered your own question; if we oust them then what? We start over that's what. It is never too late. The founders never thought they had a chance either and the rest of the world never dreamed a rag tag band of outlaws would ever beat the most powerful army of its time!

No one knows how it will go down or exactly when but it is manifest destiny. We will have a some dark periods but America was meant to be free and it will be again!

[edit on 2-7-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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i appreciate what the united states have to offer and i would kill you to defend it.

try living in a third world country, you'll say otherwise.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:26 AM
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Removed post

[edit on 2-7-2010 by ziggyproductions05]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:27 AM
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I refuse to be baited in an open forum

while sharing sparse idealism is fine
but when this type activity is discussed openly
you are all opening up Pandora's box
on your own.

I may not be the smartest rooster
on the mountain, but I do know
where my boundary ends.

This is NOT something to be discussed
in an open forum.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


yeah man, here I think you are making a very big mistake !!! the french revolution was really a necessary one, it did change our society in a positiv way, you cannot deny this !! revolution is revolution, sometimes it is very bad but always it is necessary to change a status quo and it comes by itself : look at a kind of revolution without arms that was the destruction of the Berlin Wall !! fantastic no ?? just lots of people together decided to change the powers in place. Look also at the revolution in Romania with the fall of Ceaucescu, the revolution in Cuba ( Che and Castro ) against the dictator Batista, and much much more : always the people that revolt which is totally different from a "coup d'Etat" were there is only one man or a little group that takes the power ( Pinochet against the legal President Allende ). In some way we can say that the big corporations, capitalist system, did take over the State Power for their benefit against the peoples intrests. Even Obama is a puppet in their hands, the ones that do dance all those puppets, all of us are the Bushes, the Rumsfelds, the Cheeneys, the neocons and their theorists like Rove
( = big corporations ... Enron etc ). What difference with communism and Stalin ?



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


MMhm.

sorry for going off topic admins, but this is not the place or time to speak of such things.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 03:54 AM
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One sentance : " vietnam war ".

...

In other word : counter counter intelligence, counter communication ( ala gandhi , and "From fascism to democracy"), asymetric war, direct action ( From Dictatorship to Democracy )

A tool could be use by anybody ... ( that is here the problem ) : "people" could make a revolution, even if you think the state have a lot more power and technology, you could use the same , or asymetric power to get over.


( BUt let be clear : I don't want some people to get the power ... , so don't categorize me , as a stupid pro revolution that ignore the concequences : "from democracy to fascism").

Be the change that you want to see in the world.

A good government is a government that don't use its power.

en.wikipedia.org...


NEVER FORGET : THE BETTER GOUVERNMENT IS YOU. ( AND DON'T TRY TO CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE )

[edit on 2-7-2010 by psychederic]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by psychederic]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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If we haven't revolted over the crap that's happened over the past decade, we never will.

Sometimes, all that needs to be said can be said in one line only.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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The short answer: No, America is not ready for an "active" revolution.

What I feel many people in this thread do not realize, is the fact that the VAST majority of Americans DO NOT WANT TO BE FREE. ATS members tend to over-complicate matters on this website. If an individual wishes to be free, he will act as such.

I challenge any member of this thread, to wake up tomorrow morning, and act as a sovereign individual. Go ahead, re-call your drivers license, re-call your social security number, stop paying your income taxes. My money will rest on a side of doubt, that very few will attempt such actions.

If people in this country simply exercised their right to freedom, then the people of our great nation would understand the lack thereof. We must be willing to sacrifice ourselves for the common good - and who is willing to do that? We all live in a world of fear, and as Thomas Jefferson once stated "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - We must come to realize that it is not our government whom is imprisoning us, it is ourselves.

I will relate freedom to the human body: When a muscle of the body is devoid of use, the tissues and cells in which it is comprised of begin to break down - this causes atrophy in the muscle, rendering it incapable of contraction and proper functioning. Like wise, freedom, if not exercised on a daily basis, will begin to lose it's strength - until the foundation it is built upon deteriorates. We must learn to exercise this muscle of freedom in order for freedom to grow strong.

We need not revolt to re-establish a free-society. We live in one. It is only when we choose to allow others to control us that we loose this gift. So, take it back - do not ask permission.

I propose a simple solution:

A petition containing a specific collection of grievances with our current government. It would label a course of action. It would be copied multiple times over to be brought door to door, to every American household from sea to sea. It would be signed and dated by every recipient who wishes to do so. This petition would then be copied to keep the original preserved. We would take this copied petition to every local news station in the country as a means of creating proper awareness. This petition would then be given, with live news coverage, to congress. If congress ignores and refuses our request - the world would know. It is at this point that proper peaceful petition has been completed - and if not successful, would result in the next (justified) phase of protest.

Of course, if the number of signatures does not represent the majority, then we as a democratic society must respect this fact and attempt this again at a later date.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[71] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Your friend in God, WalkingLucid.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by walkinglucid]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Ok, first off I would certainly appreciate if you would treat me with the same respect I have treated you. You may not realize it, but people are able to disagree and still respect each other as men, as people, as members of the human race which share the same planet. So please, do not call me "son". I am not your son and I am not 12 years old.

This thread was an attempt to open a dialogue and exchange ideas and concerns about a very tough subject. Yet it is a subject that comes up over and over again in many different threads. To ignore it at this point is just silly.

To get to your post, no I do not own an AR15 and I do not know anyone who does. I think it would be fair to say that the average person does not. I do not feel we are better trained. I myself, have zero military training and in the event of an armed revolution, I would simply put, have to rely on "street smarts" and common sense. Without posting my life story, I trust my instincts and my history has shown me that doing so is the smartest thing I can do.

SO what bigger picture am I talking about? I am talking about how you make the change that this country desperately wants and needs, with some form of civility. Some people want armed conflict, I myself do not. However as I stated before, I do believe it is inevitable.

What happens after the problem is resolved? How do we about correcting the real issues of having an out of control Government which must be dealt with or else we risk more of the same as well as an escalation of the events which we have already seen. We give an inch, they take a yard, and that is just for starters. It is easy to sit back and say, "We outnumber them, go get em gang!" with zero plan of HOW to go about it, HOW to correct it, HOW to install a new Government of the people and for the people, THAT is the bigger picture I am referring to, and although I appreciate your posts and agree with you to an extent, you have failed to address the real question.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by andeemac2009
 


SOMEONE, is brainwashed!! The Democratic Party, has a FAR larger number of Multi-Millionaires, than Republicans. NOT that I think much of either party- they are BOTH members of the same club- the "power club".

Back to TOPIC! I am afraid, that the average American, is too fat, lazy, and comfortable, to actually DO ANYTHING. FEDGOV, has ALREADY committed mass-murder, on CIVILIANS, live on television, with NO reprocusions. Perhaps when they are freezing, and starving, some will act. Or, surrender to the FEMA Camps. It will be too late, then.
I, for one, WILL NOT "go peacefully", to that mass-grave, hidden in the woods. Certainly, I will die- but, I'll die FIGHTING, and hopefully, take a decent "honor guard" with me! And- we ALL, get to die. "Dying well", is the secret! In the words of Patrick Henry-" The war is already begun!"
It WILL take "Divine Intervention", to save US. But- This country, was FOUNDED, with the help of "Divine Intervention"! So, Patriots, be of good cheer- we ALL get to die, few of us, get to choose how, and when!



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