When is the time when enough is enough? A look at Armed Revolution in Modern USA

reply to post by MrWendal


Armed revolution is not only possible, but now almost palpable. The stage is set, if The price of fuel reaches levels to where the average guy can't go to work, there are going to be a lot of folks with nothing better to do all day but be very angry...

Originally posted by Demetre
reply to post by mordant1

 

We do have room for 3 more. Who knows, u might even survive...gasp!!

Let me know if you are taking applicants. I've been looking for a person/group of people who will be ready and can survive off the land when it will become necessary; most likely in the not so distant future. Most of my friends think I'm going crazy or paranoid and just blow me off when I start talking about planning for survival, and I don't have time for that. I can hunt, trap, farm, cook and have a great deal of knowledge of the outdoors and survival. I'm 30 years old and in great shape as well.

If we ever get through this may we remember to never let the Government get bigger than us! What a monster we allowed to be created.

Oh yeah the guy above me has a good point:
Learning how to survive in the wilderness, gardening, hunting, fishing and carpentry for houses and water wells, is gonna be good to have under your belt, try to learn if you can from people who are skilled workers.. or even those survival programs they have on tv.
Knowing how to do html code or use computer programs isnt gonna help you when sh!t hits the fan.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by eyeofthetiger]

So there we have it. Is America such a technological giant that it would be impossible to form a resistance?

The short answer is yes. It is impossible.

The long answer, is somewhat more complex, and could add a potential wrinkle or two into a definitive yes or no response.

When one questions whether or not an armed force could penetrate the governing body of this country, and bring about a dramatic political change, one must think not of the military aspect first. We must all question whether or not you could even get such an endeavor off the ground, by even having a large enough force to sustain a prolonged military action.

So, can you recruit a number of like minded individuals, and keep them all quiet about said action in modern day (or future) America. The short answer is no, not unless you institute some form of indoctrination to alter the potential member's perception of reality (allegiance to a person who knows what is best for the country, and not the country itself, i.e. Hitler, Stalin). This is extremely hard to do in an open society such as the United States, and often only gets you radicalized members who have their own ideas on what your little group should or shouldn't be doing.

The other route is a hypothetical situation, where you could utilize an advanced technique of brainwashing, by either drugs or some as yet unknown way of manipulating brain waves. As there is really no reliable, quick, and easy way of even going about doing this, you cannot really rely on this either.

So, we are stuck on recruitment...which honestly is as far as any radical group which wants to change the government has gotten. Not one group has ever been able to gain power, by amassing a large portion of the population, or a large enough portion to simply become a vocal minority which influences the silent majority (like the Nazi party in the 1930's).

Just for speculation sake, we will say that a major disaster causes the governing body of the United States to look pathetically weak, and ineffective in maintaining the population's confidence. Knowing that the time is right to strike, they decide to implement their plan of annihilating the current government, reach out to the current military and try to broker a deal, and if that fails, gain the confidence of the populace to wage war against any future military action against the new regime.

Our little group somehow manages to recruit 10-20,000 people, fully trained in modern combat operations (both conventional and non-conventional warfare), keep them all brainwashed, silent, happy, and well fed. 1,000 men, in 10-20 major cities across America should do the trick, with probably double that number of their very best men taking part in the action against Washington, D.C., itself. The key here is to obviously make sure the action against Washington, D.C., goes off without a hitch, and take control of key supply points and large cities throughout the country. This makes the overall operation seem like it is larger than it really is, and that is has more members involved than it really does. It also causes a slight delay in reaction from the military, as they may not know just where to strike (after the obvious assault against your main force in Washington, D.C.)

Now, say you pull it off...what do you do now? You had the advantage of surprise, but even if you kill everyone in government, you still have the military to deal with. What if they don't want to listen to you? What if you get a rogue general who has worse ideas for America than any previous politician, who wipes your group off the map, and installs his own government? What if the populace doesn't like either one of you?

Really, there are too many what-if's, and too many uncontrollable aspects of creating such a winnable situation, as regime change by civil war. It is really an impossibility, even if you get everything right. The government has all the high cards in his hand...


[edit on 3-7-2010 by Yog-Sothoth]

This is not only time, it is REQUIRED in the Declaration of Independance.

"Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"

For those that don't know their Declaration interpretation (which is probably most Americans) this passage basically says that if the people feel that the Government no longer represents them (ie no longer has the consent of the governed) it's time for a revolution.

So, can you recruit a number of like minded individuals, and keep them all quiet about said action in modern day (or future) America. The short answer is no, not unless you institute some form of indoctrination to alter the potential member's perception of reality (allegiance to a person who knows what is best for the country, and not the country itself, i.e. Hitler, Stalin). This is extremely hard to do in an open society such as the United States, and often only gets you radicalized members who have their own ideas on what your little group should or shouldn't be doing.

The other route is a hypothetical situation, where you could utilize an advanced technique of brainwashing, by either drugs or some as yet unknown way of manipulating brain waves. As there is really no reliable, quick, and easy way of even going about doing this, you cannot really rely on this either.

You forgot about the option of recruiting like minded people to an area where there are no communications with the outside world, and holding them prisoner incommunicado from the time they are recruited until the time of action.

That's basically what the British did during operation OVERLORD so that the Germans wouldn't find out about the invasion in Normandy.

i have bee thinking about this, has the US GOV got bigger than it was meant to? the short answer is yes we have done it to our self's, when and how, i do not have the answer to that, one of you readers might, and in one of the users on this post, on this topic asked "what can i do now... what should i do know?" the first thing i would do is vote, that is the easiest thing to do, vote for some one new to the game, a new player get the "old guard" out they have been in way to long! If we the people want to save this grate nation of ours, this just might be our last chance, and in the months to come i will point the way to save our nation, all it takes is one voice to be heard, but many to listen too. i will post more later.

I agree that it is already "too late," and it's sad to say! But, there are some things which could take place which could change things, dramatically! I know that I am dreaming by suggesting this, but to me, there is not much difference between the Democrats or The Republican's. The last good Democrat President we had was JFK, and the last good Republican President we had was Ronald Reagan. They both had their flaws, but they were good presidents, for the most part!

Anyway, I know this is dreaming, but what would happen if 60% - 70% of all people who vote in our next Presidential Election(2012) pulled "ANY LEVER BUT DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN?" Why couldn't we start a new party and call it, "The People's Party," a party, "...of The People, by The People and for The People?" "WE THE PEOPLE" are supposed to be controlling the government, and not the other way around. We have a little more than two years to do this, gather our forces, and "strongly urge" everyone to pull any lever, but do not vote Democrat or Republican!

Oh my, how I would love to see that!!!

I am not for violence, either, but, I think when the government "attempts" to take "OUR GUNS" away from us, then that is when the poop is going to hit the big fan, and it won't be a pretty sight!

May God look down on us and continue to bless us and see us through this mess!

~ MidnightPoet

[edit on 4-7-2010 by MidnightPoet]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by MidnightPoet]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by MidnightPoet]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by MidnightPoet]

" what should i know... what can i do now?" is what the question was, the answer is not a simple one nor a short one. Yes you should vote, i is our right and duty to do so as a citizen what can i do today? you might ask, send a letter/email to you rep, sen, gov, mayor, start it this way (dear sir/ mam i would like to know what assurances you can give me as a voter/ citizen in your district that you will not let the office you hold be not compromised, that you will uphold the office that you are appointed to. For i have my doubts, and as i list them, i would like you to respond to them,and reassure me that you will up hold the Constitution of the USA/State/City/County my fist concern is....) well you get the idea, it is not easy getting them to respond but it is the first step and if you get a "Tank you for you concern, my office will...." then you know that person needs to go, any elected official that turns up his nose at a letter like that well, do i need to say more. Now on the other hand if you get one that is more one on one were you feel he/she read it then you have a keeper, i would like to do an experiment, see if you agree, go and wright a letter to the above fore mentioned and then post the response, compere notes, that should give you the answer to "When is the time when enough is enough"

Originally posted by bekod
" what should i know... what can i do now?" is what the question was, the answer is not a simple one nor a short one. Yes you should vote, i is our right and duty to do so as a citizen what can i do today? you might ask, send a letter/email to you rep, sen, gov, mayor, start it this way (dear sir/ mam i would like to know what assurances you can give me as a voter/ citizen in your district that you will not let the office you hold be not compromised, that you will uphold the office that you are appointed to. For i have my doubts, and as i list them, i would like you to respond to them,and reassure me that you will up hold the Constitution of the USA/State/City/County my fist concern is....) well you get the idea, it is not easy getting them to respond but it is the first step and if you get a "Tank you for you concern, my office will...." then you know that person needs to go, any elected official that turns up his nose at a letter like that well, do i need to say more. Now on the other hand if you get one that is more one on one were you feel he/she read it then you have a keeper, i would like to do an experiment, see if you agree, go and wright a letter to the above fore mentioned and then post the response, compere notes, that should give you the answer to "When is the time when enough is enough"

I understand what you are saying, but it is way too late for letters, way too late for peaceful demonstrations, because letters and peaceful demonstrations do not pump out "money," the "filthy lucre" which "rules" Washinton D.C., so yes, it's too late for letters and peaceful demonstrations, because those just make us look like "radicals." It will take us all speaking loudly at a voting booth by not voting for one Democrat or one Republican!

I say, "Vote them both out!" Start a "New Party!"

~ MidnightPoet

[edit on 4-7-2010 by MidnightPoet]

Originally posted by Copernicus
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Some of your ideas are very sound, but they are all based on enough people participating. If 10000 people stop paying the taxes or dont go to Wallmart, it isnt even noticable. And how are you going to get maybe 50 million people to do the same without being a politician in the spot light?

Only a fraction of people understand what has happened to the government systems you know. Most of them think everything is fine, or dont care enough to actually do anything about it. And why not, if they have a comfortable existence with a family, a job and some tech stuff to keep them happy?

Its only when enough people have nothing to lose that they become a power to be reckoned with. People have an awful lot to lose in a country like USA where there is no safety net.


[edit on 3-7-2010 by Copernicus]

The question was about armed revolt. and you'd need a large number to do that too.
A few thousand armed men will not achieve anything.

Yes, it will take a few million citizens. But it will take a few million no matter what option we are discussing or what method you support.

Like I said, it starts at a regional level. Spreading the word and gaining popular momentum.
The tea parties are achieving a similar thing, and as long as that continues with people joining in and knowing what they can do at a city or state level it will go a long way to create the national popular movement you'd need.

reply to post by MidnightPoet
i see a few problems with that, one is who would run? we could not have any blind pick. We would need to get some one that knows the hart of the people, one that would up hold the laws, not bend them nor distort them one that would have to think and feel the way the fore fathers did, one that would not be influenced by corporations or by personal gains. One that would truly be for "We The People"( i like that "wpt" or "way past the time" "wptt" no, i like "WPT",) and one the would not say one thing and then do an other, just because the $$$$ were behind it, one that would know world politics and issues that are just as important to the homeless as well as the big wig on fifth ave in NY, from the corn fields in Ohio to beach houses in Malibu CA., one that could tell "FEMA" this is the way it needs to be, and the IRS you have out lived your time, you have till 5 o'clock to ... one that would say "I am the pres for the people by the people and the people need me and my office to do..." i feel Pres Obama should have said"There is a disaster in the gulf it happened on my watch i am in need of your help, i ask for your support, for i am about to take charge, i have instructed my staff to set up a hot line that will be for persons that want to help in this time of need, we will need the flowing persons and equipment..."if i can do it why can not one we voted for do it? He still has not sent in the navy and all he has to is ask. Get on TV/radio tell the people what you need we will answer! We are not fools! We can see the damage that is being let happen, and yes i mean let happen! For give me for getting of topic but it just burns my butt thinking about it. back to subject yes it would be nice to have a pres like that. Would we ever get one is there one like that? you never know. The other problem with just puling, pushing, or poking or what ever there going to do as far as how we vote in the booth, randomly, is they, the vote counters, could nullify the vote and be stuck with the same old guard or have a re-vote, and say you can only pick from 2 candidates, now if we the people pick a true candidate to run then, just then we might have a say in the USA "we the people" one for all, all for a nation, and one that would be for a across the board tax 10% tax, a tax that would be on 50,000$ or more per year payed on a floating scale. i have thoughts on that as well.

Sorry, but as I stated in my opening post, I no longer feel that voting is a viable option. The game is rigged. How many who voted for Obama because he promised change, promised to get us out of the wars, promised to repeal the Patriot Act now regret it? I think it is fair to say that the number is higher than 50%. We have had members here who were HUGE supporters of Obama, now openly admit they made a mistake and they were once again fooled. Bush was a horrible President as well. Clinton is still considered a "good" President by the masses because he was in office when we had plenty of money to burn. The masses were not going broke and hungry on his watch. Bush Sr was horrible and I am no fan of Regan either. What they all share in common is that they each laid down the ground work for the one who was next to come and they continued policies and agendas that brought us to where we are today.

We have seen voting fraud, we have seen decades of sub par candidates who only got into office because we didn't like the other guy more. We are tired of the broken promises and lack of representation for the common folk. I believe in the old saying that the "proof is in the pudding", and the proof that our current voting system of choosing between 2 candidates from 2 parties obviously is not working and has not worked for quite some time. The proof is in the pudding, and if it has been working, we would not even be sitting here discussing this topic in a thread like this.

reply to post by MrWendal


Well now I have had replies like yours on Republican Forum sites,
First George Bush didnt use English as his first Language, he was a inept speaker, but I suspect you didnt mind Mmmm

Its funny that this only happens when we dont have a Republican Government in Power yes I am right

Nothing to do with "we must take our country back" from Sarah Palin "

And you know some of this "we must take our country back " is blatant racism against Obama IE: we must have a White President again
This dissussion is beyond reality ,,it should be in a Marvel comic

Originally posted by andeemac2009
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Well now I have had replies like yours on Republican Forum sites,
First George Bush didnt use English as his first Language, he was a inept speaker, but I suspect you didnt mind Mmmm

If that's all you can manage to find to criticize Bush about, you certainly missed SOMETHING...

Its funny that this only happens when we dont have a Republican Government in Power yes I am right

Well, yea-uh, DUH. Still trapped in that "Demican-Republicrat" paradigm, I see. LOTS of us had our eyes opened about that under Bush, and I sincerely hope the "other side" can prove themselves to be as smart, and catch up with us, but posts like this cause me to despair of that.

Nothing to do with "we must take our country back" from Sarah Palin "

When was Palin president again? If you can't tell me that, at least tell me why we should worry about "taking our country back" from her then. If you can't tell me THAT, either, then it just looks like a smokescreen for a misdirection and deflection to me.

Them's big words. Simplifying it, it means "smells like BS to me".

And you know some of this "we must take our country back " is blatant racism against Obama IE: we must have a White President again
This dissussion is beyond reality ,,it should be in a Marvel comic

Standard fallback to allegations of "racism", without having a logical argument to back such allegations, when you just really have NOTHING.

I repeat, "smells like BS to me."

[edit on 2010/7/4 by nenothtu]

i see the wing nuts are on this forum as well, oh well they have the right to be wing nuts just as i have the right to call them wing nuts and for that matter may be i am a wing nut, i voted for the current pres do i regret it? yes i do! do i feel it is time we put down the pen and pick up arms? no why because we still have the freedom to chose, do we still have free thought? the right to say what we want to say? with in reason, is it true freedom? maybe not but mostly because of laws that were put into effect by sheep, "oh he/she threatened me" "oh he said he/she was going to"... when words become just as violent as the act then there is something wrong with us! are we unstable mentally, fear driven spineless twits?, "sticks and stones will brake my bones but words will never harm me" what the "H" happened to us, is it time for "when is enough is enough" after rereading my thoughts then yes is the answer, but then who do you go after?

Originally posted by andeemac2009
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Well now I have had replies like yours on Republican Forum sites,
First George Bush didnt use English as his first Language, he was a inept speaker, but I suspect you didnt mind Mmmm

Its funny that this only happens when we dont have a Republican Government in Power yes I am right

Nothing to do with "we must take our country back" from Sarah Palin "

And you know some of this "we must take our country back " is blatant racism against Obama IE: we must have a White President again
This dissussion is beyond reality ,,it should be in a Marvel comic

Well clearly you have never noticed any of my other post. I hated Bush. He is/was just as bad as Obama and I could not care less if he was a good speaker or not. I hated his policies. I hate that under Bush, Americans can now be legally spied on. I hate that Bush pushed through the Patriot Act. I hate that the Bush administration invade two nations and killed millions based on a lot of rubbish. I have many reasons to dislike Bush as a President, and the way he spoke like a babbling idiot is just not one of them.

I don't want a Republican or a Democrat in power. Both Parties are corrupt to the core and I do believe we need to take our country back. Not from a Black President, but from a system that does not represent the people. A system that cares more about big business and money than it does for the people that make that country great. Yes, I do think we need to take our country back one way or another, but that has nothing to do with racism of any kind.

What there needs to be is a "reaffirmation" of the constitution and an amendment COMPLETELY in favor of the people. It would affirm the rights of all U.S citizens to be left alone and to not be policed or taxed, unless they are hurting(should be clearly defined) someone. It would abolish property taxes. I could think of more, but you get the idea. Get someone like mike badnarik(constitution teacher) to draw it up along with some other liberty loving folk and I think THAT would be something to "get behind" instead of a politician or violent uprising.

AFTER such an amendment, with a CLEAR line in the sand, you could spot traitors WITHOUT party debates. At that point, it wouldn't matter what party you belonged, you would HAVE to acknowledge all U.S citizens as "sovereigns". Some hate that word, but that is what real freedom is about. The truth is, those people who hate the idea of sovereign citizens feel people NEED to be controlled and told how to live. They have no respect for them and their rights, much like a king presiding over his subjects.

Can you find any one now that voted for Obama? What about the video where Obama actually said he was not an American and nothing can be done about it now??

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
What there needs to be is a "reaffirmation" of the constitution and an amendment COMPLETELY in favor of the people. It would affirm the rights of all U.S citizens to be left alone and to not be policed or taxed, unless they are hurting(should be clearly defined) someone. It would abolish property taxes. I could think of more, but you get the idea. Get someone like mike badnarik(constitution teacher) to draw it up along with some other liberty loving folk and I think THAT would be something to "get behind" instead of a politician or violent uprising.

AFTER such an amendment, with a CLEAR line in the sand, you could spot traitors WITHOUT party debates. At that point, it wouldn't matter what party you belonged, you would HAVE to acknowledge all U.S citizens as "sovereigns". Some hate that word, but that is what real freedom is about. The truth is, those people who hate the idea of sovereign citizens feel people NEED to be controlled and told how to live. They have no respect for them and their rights, much like a king presiding over his subjects.

I do like this idea, but I do not see it being very realistic. Let's say a group of men updated the Constitution, it could not be adapt without Congress. Do you really trust Congress to do the right thing? I sure don't. It is full of Traitors also.

I really think we are way past the point of working within the current system to get change. I do not subscribe to the "change the system from within" method of thinking for the simple fact that there are people who did think that and have been trying to 30+ years to no avail. At some point you have to admit, that is not working either.