What does the number 4409 mean to you?, page 1


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times
Topic started on 1-7-2010 @ 07:21 PM by SUICIDEHK45
www.washingtonpost.com...

4,409, what does it mean to you? To me it is the number of U.S. military members that have given their lives since March 2003 in the Iraq war. All of these brave men and women have died because of false information regarding WMDs.

Not only have 4,409 U.S. military members died in a semingly unnecessary war, but 31,865 U.S. service members have been wounded.

That means that 36,274 lives have been directly, and countless more lives indirectly, changed forever.


Just remember that President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq May 1st 2003. That was over seven years ago. Here is a transcript of that speech:

www.cnn.com...

Make sure that as you go about your day, remember the men and women who gave their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and all coalition troops that are currently serving and fighting overseas.




reply posted on 1-7-2010 @ 07:40 PM by LarryLove
reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


The death toll is shameful on all sides and the numbers are just going to keep rising. With approx. 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq, it is a wonder that Bush and his henchmen haven't indited with war crimes.

Iraq Bodycount


reply posted on 1-7-2010 @ 08:09 PM by JR MacBeth
reply to post by RizeorDie


Hey there, I see where you're coming from, but did you know that not everyone really "chooses" to join the US military? Do you know how many, especially black men, are given a "choice", by a judge, to either go to prison, or "volunteer" in the Army (usually)? In the US prison system, they are perhaps even more likely to die than in the military, where often the worst they might do is clean toilets (the lucky ones).

Worldwide, whether it's Afghani kids with AK47's, African "freedom fighters" (12 years old), etc., not everyone really is "choosing", not even many of those who find themselves in the US Army. The "system" is being fed by "bodies" (formerly known as "cannon fodder"), much like it always has been.

We've got some really, really bad leaders (always have had them, everywhere!), who don't care who they kill, and have fooled the young men (mainly) of nation, after nation, for many generations. It could be that many are very "patriotic" too, not necessarily a "bad" thing! But the problem is that we're killing each other, while the truly "fat-cats" of the world, pulling the strings, riding in limos, etc. These guys are behind the scenes, while soldiers and innocent noncombatants on all sides, are dying.

A lot of US soldiers are waking up too by the way. Not all of them have to get their legs blown off, to see that someone is getting rich off their pain (and the pain of the invaded as well, of course). But most are so young when they enlist. We're often talking about 18 year old kids, when advanced psychology tells us that the part of the brain that allows mature "judgement" isn't fully online until age 25!

A big issue. I don't want to minimize the suffering in any way, on all sides. It's just so much more than a "casual" discussion. I hope some wise people will weigh in here, and share some of their wisdom with us all. I'm getting a refill on my glass on wine now, sort of depressing!

Thanks for a great thread idea...sure is relevant to the times!

JR MacBeth


reply posted on 2-7-2010 @ 09:33 PM by LarryLove
reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


I believe most of us care. Things might change if the government saw protests on the scale of those who objected to the Vietnam war.


reply posted on 3-7-2010 @ 12:54 PM by SUICIDEHK45
icasualties.org...

U.S. military casualties in Iraq at 4411

Year U.S. U.K. Other Total
2003 486 53 41 580
2004 849 22 35 906
2005 846 23 28 897
2006 822 29 21 872
2007 904 47 10 961
2008 314 4 4 322
2009 149 1 0 150
2010 41 0 0 41
Total 4411 179 139 4729


Australia 2
Azerbaijan 1
Bulgaria 13
Czech Republic 1
Denmark 7
El Salvador 5
Estonia 2
Fiji 1
Georgia 5
Hungary 1
Italy 33
Kazakhstan 1
Latvia 3
Netherlands 2
Poland 23
Romania 3
Slovakia 4
South Korea 1
Spain 11
Thailand 2
Ukraine 18
United Kingdom 179
United States 4411


US military deaths in Afghan region at 1,150

Year US UK Other Total
2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 17 69
2003 48 0 9 57
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 317 108 96 521
2010 203 65 59 327
Total 1150 310 435 1895

Australia 16
Belgium 1
Canada 150
Czech 3
Denmark 33
Estonia 7
Finland 1
France 44
Germany 42
Hungary 2
Italy 24
Jordan 1
Latvia 3
Lithuania 1
NATO 3
Netherlands 24
Norway 9
Poland 19
Portugal 2
Romania 15
South Korea 1
Spain 28
Sweden 4
Turkey 2
UK 310
US 1150





[edit on 7/3/2010 by SUICIDEHK45]

[edit on 7/3/2010 by SUICIDEHK45]


reply posted on 3-7-2010 @ 01:05 PM by kevinunknown
reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


These stats are very interesting. Just wondering if posting them was to highlight a view you may hold that other NATO allies are not pulling there weight.

S&F though for such a important topic.


reply posted on 3-7-2010 @ 01:13 PM by SUICIDEHK45
reply to post by kevinunknown


No, not at all I feel it is America's war and the U.S. should be grateful for all of the other countries that have helped out.

The reason why I posted the stats for the other countries casualties was because there are a lot of people from other countries on ATS and I didn't want to make this just a U.S. issue. Everybody should be grateful for the soldiers from all over the world that have given their lives for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


reply posted on 3-7-2010 @ 01:16 PM by kevinunknown
reply to post by SUICIDEHK45


Well then i have no problem with you. I have to say it is sad there are not more people paying any attention to this thread its important.


reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 09:31 AM by SUICIDEHK45
Another 3 NATO soldiers were killed in Afghanistan July 4, 2010

www.google.com...

Bringing this year's total coalition military deaths in Afghanistan up to 331



Edit to add: TWO MORE DEATHS

[edit on 7/5/2010 by SUICIDEHK45]


reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 06:15 PM by JR MacBeth
Well Suicide, not getting as much interest in this thread as I would have thought. Not sure why, I think your numbers are rather poignant, and judging by the anger from one of the early replies, you would have thought more would have wanted to express their feelings on this issue.

Where are the folks who have lost a father, brother, sister, etc.? Shouldn't we all be "angrier" in a way? The little regard for human life that our masters have is truly appalling, and yet, where is the outrage?

Of course, this has been going on for many years. The monstrous fratricidal World Wars reengineered our matrix, but for the worse. And how is it that we just haven't learned anything? How can they get away with taking the young people of the nations, the literal promise of the future, and decade, after decade, they maim them, kill them, and use them to maim, and kill others. Insanity.

One poster brought up Vietnam. You know, back then, at least there was the draft. In other words, many felt they "had to" go. Today, with the "all volunteer" arrangement, it does seem like we've gone backwards. No wonder people in other nations (especially) have little sympathy for the death toll. There is a certain logic to it.

Obviously it's more complicated than that, as I attempted to explain in my earlier post. Some in fact do not really "volunteer". Most are too young to employ sound judgement about something so profound in their lives.

And so, perhaps we should ask, "Quo Vadis?", where are we headed? I hate to say it, but we could get to the point where the Western nations fall in along the lines of the great Israeli experiment. In that nation, all are born to one day serve in the military. More insidious is the fact that the women of that nation also go through it. These women then become mothers, whose children are raised with a level of brainwashing (hate to say it), that few of us can really comprehend.

Only in ancient Sparta did we have mothers so devoted to "Victory"!

God, or whoever is in charge, help us. We're "marching" fast to a very ugly "New World Order"...

JR


reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 06:28 PM by SUICIDEHK45
reply to post by JR MacBeth


Even though it is an all volunteer force, not enought media attention has ever been given to the soldier fighting and dying overseas. For awhile I had hope, that was when Obama lifted the ban on photos of the caskets returning to the U.S. For a couple of weeks it was the talk of the town. As that talk slowly faded, one would still hear the occasional report of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was upset with that but still pretty content.

Now with all of the news of the Deepwater Horizon disaster, there has been almost no mention of soldiers dying. Even the fact that the war in Afghanistan became the longest war in America's history, was just a small blurb on the MSM. I just thought I would start bringing these deaths to light so at least it was one more person trying to spread awareness about this issue.

As bad as the Deepwater disaster is, there has been over 180 coalition deaths since the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded.

Even if this thread only makes a handful of people aware of all the deaths happening for "the war on terror" it will be well worth it.

Well spoken JR, and thanks for paying attention.
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