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ACLU issues travel alerts for Arizona

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posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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I wish I had some free time. I would spend it in Arizona...

The immigration "problem" has been around forever. I can't believe all of the people that think it's something new or that the sudden deportation of 11+ million people will solve anything. In fact it will cause a huge wave of problems to ripple through the economy. Who's going to cook and clean? Who's going to work the fields? We sure as hell won't. Fences won't solve anything.

The fix is actually pretty simple... which is why we don't do it.

Step 1: Increase the number of work visas that can be issued so our businesses can continue to have cheap labor. Give them a year to get a green card (or whatever color) and if they are found to be illegal after one year send them to Guantanamo or someplace unpleasant like that...

Step 2: Take away all of the perks of being here illegally. We make it so attractive with our welfare, free medical, etc. Take all of that away. Deportation won't be necessary... they'll go home on their own if the free stuff goes away.

We spend billions giving them a reason to want to come and billions trying to keep them out... brilliant...




posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by Mobius1974
 


well, if my neighbors forcefully took over my clean water and vegetables in my back yard, i had no way of changing the situation on my own, and they offered me food and water as long as i worked quietly in their back yard because the cops might take me back to my house that they screwed up, hell yes i would.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by mooseinhisglory
 


So youre ok being a slave?

Nice.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


I know right... So how long can a garden be blamed on the US? They cant get seeds? We have ruined all the sources of water in mexico? Empty argument!

Step up and do something!

Against all odds a truely strong country will prosper.. A weak one will just leave?? Seems like flawed logic to me..



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by mooseinhisglory
 


Problems in Mexico are not our problem, whether we caused them or not. That is a domestic mexican issue, not ours. Resentment? Who cares?


thats what the clinton and bush administrations said about the middle east, until 9/11 happened. thats why i care. resentment can lead to violence, and they live right next door to us. i dont even know why im arguing this point with you. you obviously dont care, so i digress, and i will no longer try to make you care.


Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by mooseinhisglory
 

Mexico is a proven enemy of the United States, they have committed acts of war upon us.

Why should we not retaliate through any and every means possible?


a proven enemy except when they provide our corporations with cheap resources to exploit like water, land, and labor. they (and other latin american countries) could say the same thing about us. isnt it nice that they havent tried your solution to the problems we present in their countries?


Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by mooseinhisglory
 

Calling them illegals isnt meant to deprive them of their humanity, its a descriptor of what they are once they cross our border without our permission.
[edit on 1-7-2010 by brainwrek]


thats obviously the way most use it, but "illegals" could apply to anyone doing something "illegal." im just a little more PC than many on this board, so i say "illegal immigrants." i was just putting in my OPINION of why the mass media use this word more often than the correct term, so i wont argue this point further.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


ok, then that question was completely loaded. im not okay with being a slave, which is why i stated "and had no way of changing it on my own." if i had no way of changing it on my own, WHAT OTHER OPTION WOULD I HAVE?

i literally went out of my way to explain away every little tiny aspect, of my answer, and its still not good enough. all you two have on your side is opinions.

why dont you two just put up or shut up? go kill as many "illegals" as you can, and stop trying to make me change my stance on the matter. ill continue to be involved in the democratic process, while you continue to advocate violence.

edit: spelling

[edit on 1-7-2010 by mooseinhisglory]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by brainwrek
 


I know right... So how long can a garden be blamed on the US? They cant get seeds? We have ruined all the sources of water in mexico? Empty argument!

Step up and do something!

Against all odds a truely strong country will prosper.. A weak one will just leave?? Seems like flawed logic to me..


its not about gardens, its about the robbery of land from indiginous peoples to force them to be slaves to the peso instead of masters of their own futures and land. and no, we didnt ruin all of their water sources, but many of their water sources are controlled by different corporations around the world.
if you want to use a metaphorical argument, i will answer in metaphors. and im not talking about strong and weak countries, im talking about disempowered people who are controlled by drug cartels and intl corporations.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Mike6158
 


I cook and clean myself. I do not need someone to do what I already can do. Not only that but I cannot afford such luxuries anyway.

As for working in the field if I were out of a job I would jump all over a field job that would put food on my table.

Not sure what Americans people are talking about when they say jobs Americans will not do but it certainly is not this American. I will not work for near slave wages though but I will work for honest money at the very least minimum wage.

Again Americans will do the jobs and as we speak there are plenty of Americans that can use a few jobs held by illegals.

Raist


First and only step. Stop depending on cheap labor to do things Americans can do.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Arizona is a toxic place to be right now.



Take this piece of sage advice from someone who actually lives in Arizona - we see the problems that illegal immigration brings with it every day. We have the highest kidnapping rate and car theft rate in the US, our ranchers are being murdered by illegals crossing the border, and our kids are being killed by drunken illegals driving at night. The streets of Phoenix are a death trap after dark and the police are overwhelmed by the sheer scale of it.

We have a right to protect ourselves from people who are in this country illegally, if you are here legally and have not committed any crimes, then you have nothing to fear.

As no one in the Federal government seems interested in our rights as citizens, we have to take care of ourselves, you may want to get out of the way of our steamroller because your heart appears to be bleeding as it is.

PS - In case anyone is wondering what constitutes "just cause" in asking if someone is here legally, here's a our local news from today, and this is EVERY day:

www.azcentral.com...



Two men are being sought after allegedly fleeing their rolled-over vehicle on Arizona 85, authorities said.

Passing motorists saw the two men abandon the gray Nissan Pathfinder at about 5:30 a.m. Wednesday after it rolled over in the northbound lanes near Gila Bend, said Bart Graves of the Department of Public Safety.

When officers arrived, he said, they found two backpacks in the car filled with marijuana.

DPS called in a helicopter and a SWAT unit Wednesday but the men remained at large, Graves added.




[edit on 1-7-2010 by Retseh]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Mobius1974
 



You are not welcome illegally... You are not welcome illegally... You are not welcome illegally.. It sounds so simple to understand...



Are you sure about that?? Aren't they crossing the border and getting jobs??

If they are getting jobs; then somebody does want them there. What about the people who are shopping at the places with low prices thanks to cheap illegal labour? They must want them there too.

The problem is, a lot of people DO want illegal immigrants so they can exploit them.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


You'll take the job as long as you get paid what you want
) nice...

Cooking and cleaning = motels and restaurants not the average American's house.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik


That was my point so why does it bother you that the ACLU is putting out a warning that if you are illegal in AZ the cops can and will ask for proof of citizenship. Also that if you are legal to make sure you don't forget proper ID for the same reason.

I know they are going to put their slant on it but in the end it's only a warning of what is being done.



because warning criminals of police actions is aiding and abbeting(sp?).
cause lets be real clear here, these illegals(whatever nationality they happen to be) have broken federal laws and are criminals.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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No Liberties were stripped from any American, in any way shape or form in the Arizona Law. In fact it is less harsh than the Federal Law which does allow profiling and does not require any cause.

Why are people still lying about this and posting their lies? A lie is a lie, no matter how many times its told. All that is happening is people are destroying their credibility by knowingly lying. Why would people do that?

Because they use the drugs from Mexico?
They are themselves criminal and Illegal?
They are just being Trolls who always take the other side?
They have friends or family members they are protecting?

Since the Arizona Law does not allow profiling in any way shape or form, I can't think of a good explanation. Surely after all this time people who have not read the law would not be foolish enough to keep posting since they don't even care enough to read the law?

This ridiculous boycott is not only over a lie, its the actions of childish mind. Punishing the people of Arizona, who are in a large part legal, welcome and wanted. What kind of childish mind conceives of that?

The ACLU has always been a dumping ground for Ambulance Chasers and people so radical no Law Firm would want them around.


[edit on 7/1/2010 by Blaine91555]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by mooseinhisglory
 


Ahem.

There are no indigenous people to the north american continent.

Simply arriving here before someone else doesnt make them indigenous.

Stop being intellectually dishonest in order to prove a failing point.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by mooseinhisglory


ok, then that question was completely loaded. im not okay with being a slave, which is why i stated "and had no way of changing it on my own." if i had no way of changing it on my own, WHAT OTHER OPTION WOULD I HAVE?


[edit on 1-7-2010 by mooseinhisglory]


You visit violence upon them and secure your freedom, your land, and your life.

The concept isnt difficult to understand.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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can't they build a wall with on top of it a high power line which you can connect west and east coast and they build the dessert full with solar and wind.
then when someone things he can climb over the fence /wall they get a big zap of power . then they will learn not to climb over.
people forget that not only mexicans are getting over also terrorist from the middle east and other radicale terror zones around the world are getting over and in the USA .
Europe should do the same with the fence in North Africa set some massive volts onto in it because today they are climbing over in the thousands.. some warning signs before and on the wall / fence so they know when they touch it they get some 50.000 volts or more.
No one will try and we are all a bit safer.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by MarkLuitzen
 


This is about votes. They could easily control the border in the same way other countries have done. Obama knows this law is harmless. He is doing this to protect his Hispanic vote. There is no way he will allow the border to be closed before the 2012 elections.

They could put in the same double fence setup the Israelis use that is 100% effective. They could use local contractors, create jobs and still do it cheaply. The rest is a lie. Even the cost. Those Unions who own the government take a project and make it cost many times what it can really be done for. It lines the pockets of the Union leaders, organized crime bosses, who stuff the ballot boxes and force their members to vote for only one Party.

It is really sad how Politics has turned us into a nation of liars. When our President lies over and over again people start to think its OK to lie, no matter who you hurt. They don't give a damn about the Illegals. I don't even think Obama likes America. He is an impostor in the White House.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by Soloist
Well I guess those of us who are actually legal citizens have nothing to worry about then.


I strongly disagree.


Then it would appear that you are sadly mistaken.


How many people at different times in history have remained complacent while liberties were stripped away slowly and deceptively in the name of keeping some group of people at a distance?


Nothing here is being stripped away from legal citizens . Just criminals who are trespassing illegally, breaking our laws.


Conversly, I am not a proponent of illegal immigration, but random stops and checks for papers? You're next! (not you personally).


There will not be "random stops". If you bothered to inform yourself, you would have known this. It is "routine" traffic stops that this law will affect.


But then again... you could be next.


A bit of a sensationalist arn't we?



[edit on 1-7-2010 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Mike6158
 


Read my post. I said I would work minimum wage if I needed a job. Not what I want but welcome in a time of need. Do not put words into my mouth.

Anything below that is near slave wages. Unless you think it is fair to not pay someone at least minimum wage?


Edit to add: I know Americans who clean hotels. I as an American have cooked for minimum wage.

Raist

[edit on 7/1/10 by Raist]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Blaine, it does not help.

No matter how often they are told nothing bad is happening they still continue to not read the law and remain ignorant of it. They wait to be handed information and lies from someone else, I believe mainly due to laziness.


My favorite is when they say that illegals do jobs American will not do. When really they are doing jobs that companies will not pay Americans at least minimum wage to do and give them a safe work environment.

Raist



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