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ACLU issues travel alerts for Arizona

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posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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ACLU issues travel alerts for Arizona


www.cnn.com

(CNN) -- Dozens of affiliates of the American Civil Liberties Union have issued travel alerts for people heading to Arizona this Fourth of July holiday weekend -- the group's latest effort to condemn the state's new immigration law.

Arizona's measure stipulates that police can ask the residency status of people being investigated for a crime.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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Just a heads up to those who might have a need to know. I wonder where all this will actually wind up. Fed lawsuit and all. I understand the need for border security, especially in these strange days, but the Arizona law is IMHO a slap in the face to all Americans. Head to Cedar Point or Six Flags or something. Arizona is a toxic place to be right now.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 7/1/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Apparently ATS member buddhasystem beat me to the post on this one. His thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 7/1/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]


+5 more 
posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Well I guess those of us who are actually legal citizens have nothing to worry about then.

Looks like it's time to visit Arizona and give them some support!


+7 more 
posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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I can tell you where it will end up. AZ being right.


If the law were anything but legal the Feds would not be attempting to sue them they would declare the law unconstitutional.


AZ has a problem with illegal immigrants they are doing what they need to do to fix that problem. If anyone can show me where this law is anything but Constitutional and point out where it is racist please do so.

As usual, the ACLU is doing their normal thing, not helping America.


Raist



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Soloist
Well I guess those of us who are actually legal citizens have nothing to worry about then.


I strongly disagree. How many people at different times in history have remained complacent while liberties were stripped away slowly and deceptively in the name of keeping some group of people at a distance?

Conversly, I am not a proponent of illegal immigration, but random stops and checks for papers? You're next! (not you personally).

But then again... you could be next.

[edit on 7/1/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


There are no random stops and checks for papers.

Reading the laws shows this. They can only be asked for proof of citizenship if they have been detained for committing or are detained for suspicion of committing a crime.

If they are not committing crimes they have nothing to worry about.

Raist



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 

Ugh, the ACLU is one of the last bastions of defense we have as Americans, and I wouldn't want to be without them because there is no alternative, but it makes me cringe to see them behaving this way.

Issuing a travel alert? A month before the law even goes into effect? What is the danger here? They're making drama where there is none and grabbing for headlines and that's insulting and beneath them.

And I'm going to say this too. Their name is the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union. No Americans need worry about this law, aside from maybe a minor inconvenience should a law enforcement officer make the extra check about citizenship during a stop. As far as the inconvenience goes? There's always some if we want to resolve issues and fix problems. How does the ACLU propose we do it? What's their idea?



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


They already check for ID anyway if you get stopped, don't they? I have no problem being asked to prove I'm a citizen. (Not that I currently can, as none of us carry those kinds of papers, which is a whole other issue...an issue by the way which this illegal thing is going to FORCE upon us and which will be a real concern for the ACLU.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


There are no random stops and checks for papers.

Reading the laws shows this. They can only be asked for proof of citizenship if they have been detained for committing or are detained for suspicion of committing a crime.

If they are not committing crimes they have nothing to worry about.

Raist


Anyone can be stopped on "suspicion" of anything at any time. It's alltogether too vague a turn of phrase. Valid laws dictate that probable cause must be established.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
Conversly, I am not a proponent of illegal immigration, but random stops and checks for papers?


Somehow I get the impression that you have not read this law.

It seems you have a lot of incorrect information about it.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 



This from extremeliberal.wordpress.com...

"It’s important to remember that unless people are caught in the actual act of crossing the border, and not merely found on a freeway crammed into a minivan, there is no criminal violation that any officer could suspect them of. The only violation likely to arouse suspicion would be a civil one.

Thus, as you can see, Kobach’s and Van Susteren’s analogy comparing someone suspected of being in the country illegally to someone pulled over with a bag of pot on the seat, or some other criminal violation, is all wrong.

A more apt analogy would be a situation in which a police officer approached a suspect for a drinking-and-driving violation and began to suspect that the same person was a tax cheat because he was a wealthy white Republican. Certainly, there are no shortage of those in Arizona.

If the Arizona law were applied similarly regarding all federal civil violations, well, the officer would be required to call the IRS and have that person audited.

Anyone wanna bet the Arizona Legislature won’t be demanding that of their police officers anytime soon?"




[edit on 7/1/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


So when you are out driving you do not have a driver’s license and proof of insurance?
Those who are immigrants are supposed to carry the proper papers on them at all times regardless. Some states even have laws saying that all citizens should carry proof of identification on them even if walking down the street (nothing was said about those laws and they make some sense). If I am stopped for being suspicious I can prove who I am. I can even tell them the hospital I was born in, my SS number and all that can be found on their laptop fairly quickly.

Raist



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


Give illegals 1 week to get out on their own.. Then round them all up and ban them for life.... Its that easy. You damn bleeding heart liberals that think its wrong... You can drive the busses and ban you too..

Its rediculous.. If you cant go through the legal process.. go elsewhere..

Also.. if you come here to have your baby...to force us into giving that child citizenship.. THATS OVER.. Pick up your baby and get the hell out.. I am sick of our country bending over backwards to apease everyone..

I say we use the border for sniper training.....
You are not welcome illegally... You are not welcome illegally... You are not welcome illegally.. It sounds so simple to understand... Are the people south of Mexico that stupid that they can not understand that? Oh wait.. they know that, but know that life is better here... So they are LAZY.. Lazy you ask?? YES if things are so bad in Mexico.. Get off your taco eatin azz and make your country better!!!!! Mass exodus is not the way to bring prosperity to a country or area.

I know this is harsh and mean.. But I am sick to death of the illegals flowing accross the border and the spinless americans that think that this is ok.

Go sneak into Russia,Iran,Saudia Arabia or Australia and see what happens.

Our country is getting weak!!!

Again.. the border should be used for mine disposal and sniper training.. Nothing else seems to work..



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


"If I am stopped for being suspicious..."
Raist


What constitutes suspicious. Walking down the street? Driving around town? Ordering a Margarita? What?

Oh... right. If one looks Hispanic one is to be stopped on the suspicion of being suspicious.



[edit on 7/1/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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Amazing how its been over a month and people still haven't read the law, yet obstentaciously oppose it. Random stops and checks? Lol.

ACLU needs to change their warning to:

"Caution, travellers stopped in Arizona for commiting a crime or infringing the law will be asked to provide documentation that they are legitimate residents of this country, or legal visitors. Such documentation required would be your liscense, green card or other such official legal document that you should have on your person anyway."

So tired of this. The law explicitly, and implicitly states that documentation is required only when pulled over for another offense, be it speeding, swerving on the road, running over your neighbor, etc. IT IS NOT RANDOM STOPS AND CHECKPOINTS.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


Edit:Actually I did bring up suspicion sorry about that. Still the rest of the post holds.:Edit

If you are sitting outside of a closed store in the middle of the night you could be “stopped”, if you are driving a car that matches one used in a crime you can be stopped also.

Why just go to that though instead of getting to all the points brought to you by not only myself but the other posters as well. Your questions could better be answered though by reading the law, I mean that in the most sincere of ways too and am not just being rude about it. You can find out several differing reasons of suspicion by looking into it through any precinct you wish.

You have to remember if they are wrong on a “suspicious” stop and it is nothing more than drummed up reasons the officer and the precinct can suffer greatly though lawsuits. Cops tread lightly on the “suspicious” thing. Normally they pull you over or stop you for a crime.


Edit to add:I noticed you brought in (edited in) the race card. They cannot stop you over race.


Raist


[edit on 7/1/10 by Raist]

[edit on 7/1/10 by Raist]



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 



This from extremeliberal.wordpress.com...


So I cite that i suspect that you have not read the law.... and you link me to a blog site punctuated by "extreme liberal"?

Have you read the law or not? Can you reference something other than a far-left analysis blog of the law?



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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Too bad. I've already planned a grand canyon and monument valley adventure for the months of July and August. This is not to show my support of the immigration laws of AZ, as it was already planned. However, my not cancelling the trip should show which side of the issue I take. I am not the least bit concerned as my wife is a LEGAL immigrant and her sister is also here with me legally. If we are to be stopped for whatever reason, I will not be concerned because everyone has the proper papers, and the only issues are whatever other laws I happen to be breaking at the time.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Surely there must be a more reasonable way to curtail the illegal alien problem than with a broad, sweeping and thinly camoflagued quick fix. That's all I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Deal me out.

Robert A Heinlein:
"When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere."




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