Is it a glitch in the Matrix?

as I see it we must listen to those people with schizo and or other " madness " as we call it because they really have something to tell us, something very important but like always we do not have time to listen or we think we already know it all .....
those people are sometimes more aware of the problems around us .... and they tell it their way : we think : hey, he or she is crazy !!! ... but we do not listen and we do not say " yes, you are right, very right, but now calm down and smile, do not be upset that way, we understand your feelings about this CRAZY world ... ". Because the reason they are " sick " is the fact that this world is really sick and they feel it a 190 % !!!!! we just fell it a 30 %, ok ?
So BP oil spill : when you just do not care about it too much, then maybe you will be the " normal " one, but they just get sick about it, they are just sick because they feel it much more times stronger than " normal " people, they get crazy about it and could suicide themselves because of example this crazy BP life killing oil spill.
You see : their consciousness is much more influenced by the global impact than ours ... but if the situation gets very dangerous, everybody will get mad about this .. I tell you, I want to see all those americans screeming with their children in front of the dying oceans and the petrol rain on their fields .... lots will get crazy or suicide themselves ... but I do not want this, but it will happen, believe me !
We just DO NOT LISTEN to them, because we hide those problems that make us sick, they cann't and do not hide it, they live with it all the time. We do not talk all the time about the big problems in this world, they do and we call them crazy ...... until until until yes something will happen that disastrous that we will cry and tell just the same as they do .....
why are they crazy ? why do we call them crazy ?? because they have their mind full of this crazy world devastating our lives and get sick about it ...
while we all do sleep in front of reality, they feel the end is coming and are 200 % upset with this so they cann't live a normal life any longer.
Peace.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

No, not when the idea could lead to very dangerous actions, I won't take back that the idea is crazy.

I find your ideas just as dangerous. I have been to a mental hospital for a week and have been around suicidal crazy people, the thoughts that their hallucinations are not a simple "glitch" (which is a comforting notion) and are the product of their own uncurable dysfunctions just leads to severe depression.

Ideas like yours(that other peoples perceptions of reality are inferior and "crazy" and dangerous, just because they are radically different) get people like me stuck in physc wards although Im no risk to anyone including myself, nor experience delusions.

No one is saying that anyone should listen to what the voices say to do, the discussion here is about what the hallucinations are, not how you should or should not act on them.

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by hippomchippo

No, not when the idea could lead to very dangerous actions, I won't take back that the idea is crazy.

I find your ideas just as dangerous. I have been to a mental hospital for a week and have been around suicidal crazy people, the thoughts that their hallucinations are not a simple "glitch" (which is a comforting notion) and are the product of their own uncurable dysfunctions just leads to severe depression.

Ideas like yours(that other peoples perceptions of reality are inferior and "crazy" and dangerous, just because they are radically different) get people like me stuck in physc wards although Im no risk to anyone including myself, nor experience delusions.

No one is saying that anyone should listen to what the voices say to do, the discussion here is about what the hallucinations are, not how you should or should not act on them.

What ideas have I had?
I'm against drug therapy aswell as most modern forms of psycology.
Please don't assume things.
And if you think that other peoples perceptions of reality can't be dangerous, you need to ACTUALLY research schizophrenia, as it isn't all sunshines and rainbows.

reply to post by hippomchippo


That is a perspective held by those who believe in traditional medical practice, and it is only that: A perspective. A personal viewpoint on something. Schizophrenics' perspectives, according to the majority's accord, are largely delusional, correct? Have you ever thought that perhaps the central thought process driving the "delusions" was so intricate and complex that it was merely incomprehensible to recount verbally in an accurate manner?

I do not wish to argue, but discuss. No perspective is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Goddy
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

That is a perspective held by those who believe in traditional medical practice, and it is only that: A perspective. A personal viewpoint on something. Schizophrenics' perspectives, according to the majority's accord, are largely delusional, correct? Have you ever thought that perhaps the central thought process driving the "delusions" was so intricate and complex that it was merely incomprehensible to recount verbally in an accurate manner?

I do not wish to argue, but discuss. No perspective is irrelevant.

I never said we knew everything there is to know about schizophrenia, and we're probably mostly wrong, but that doesn't mean we should accept random theories that are sparked from hollywood movies as valid when they can be dangerous to the person who actually has schizophrenia.

[edit on 1-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

i feel we are being very unfair to kevinunknown (edit: and hippochimpo for that matter). He raises an important and valid point.

Yes its true we do not fully understand schizophrenia, in there was a fairly recent discussion to have schizophrenia reclassified as many individual "mental disorders".

Whether or not people with schizophrenia are more attuned to the universe or can see parallel dimensions the fact remains that it/they can be very serious and debilitating disease/s. And if it is a disease in which the mind cant wake up from a dream it would be very destructive and counter productive to fuel such delusions (if they are delusions).

Psychiatry has come a long way in the last 20 years but never the less it is still a young (i hate to use the term) science.

Calling schizophrenics "mad" or "insane" is very counter productive. There have been tens of cases before the 70's of people having been driven mad by being called mad. I remember reading of this one case where the parents of a girl thought she was insane and psychic. They invented a secret language (mostly based around hand gestures and facial expressions) so they could communicate secretly infront of her to see if she really was psychic. Needless to say this drove the unfortunate girl mad. She couldnt "read" peoples facial expressions because of her parents and was locked up for 20 years until her parents were called in to a discussion with a more "modern" psychiatrist.

im just trying to show you how dangerous other peoples opinions can be on a persons mental well being.

that being said... lets assume that what they are seeing feeling is a dellusion. Surely you cant deny how serious an effect reinforcing peoples delusions could have?

~TR~



[edit on 1-7-2010 by Tomb_Raven]

reply to post by CREAM


First I never presumed that what we see is what is REAL, I said that to hypothesize that our reality is not "real" is useless. If you want I can add meaningless since, by definition, we cant make meaningful hypothesis on concepts we have NO WAY of confirming empirically. That means anyone can create an hypothesis that sounds good and there is little chance to be able to refute it...
I could add that's even dangerous, or at least sloppery thinking, since you would become schizophrenic-like yourself: You would "see" (imagine) a "reality" far from the one we can study.

I would confess that I dont know about "Holographic Universe" but if new ager "great teachers" base it on quantum physics this can explain it.

Because I know about quantum physics, and you can base ANY mystic/occultist/meaningless theory on it... Science it's not a science per se. That's a "science" which asserts as a principle that there are no causes nor effects, there is only randomness. Quantum physicists are mystics themselves (Read about Wolfgang Pauli, Niels Bohr, Eisenberg...) and they declared (back in the 1910-20s) that "Understanding isn’t possible."
Not because we don’t have the knowledge nor the tools to attain it but because that’s the inherent nature of mater/energy/life/universe. We CANNOT KNOW ANYTHING. Everything is random. There are NO laws to govern reality!(at least, in the world of particles.).

I’m not playing with you. That’s what our best/most brilliant scientific minds (ironic) BELIEVE!
And it’s illustrated by the «non-locality principle», the «non-causal» approach. It leads to forsake the «why» and even the «how» and embrace a probabilistic/statistical method. And to think it’s okay because it «works»… That’s scientific now… Truly, quantum physics is the death of physics/science.
Einstein (who made his own mistakes, he was not the genius people believe him to be) couldn’t accept this antiscientific movement (known as the Copenhagen school) and was a fierce opponent of quantum «physics». He had this to say: « God doesn’t play dice!» To try to make understand that a science based on randomness and probability/statistics was not a science. It was occultism.
Also, we find the Jungian concept of synchronicity applied to quantum physics to describe what they believe to be an instantaneous transmission of data between photons (?!) but simply is a «behavior» induced by the nature of the experiment at its very beginning. There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to consider a transmission of any data (between the 2 parts of a photon split in two following 2 mirrored paths)! No, for them, photons are alive and they are telepaths!!!

No wonder why self-proclaimed "enlighted men" can come up with all the bs they can think of... No one can prove them wrong! Even "scientists".

If only you knew what has become science...
Didnt you notice that's almost 1 century there is NO breakthrough in physics?! ONE CENTURY!

Be wary of new pseudo-scientists/new agers/conspiracy theorists (those who mix " truths" with spiritual teachings)/great spiritual teachers/2012-enlightment-guides who use what is already a pseudo-science to come up with ideas that are utterly BS-non-sense!!!
No wonder why people are lost among more and more senseless ideas!

[edit on 1-7-2010 by Project_USA]

Dr. KevinUnknown & Dr. hippomchippo,
Are you two trying to set a record for the use of ad hominems?
"Why Schizophrenics can't possibly be experiencing an alternative consciousness because they do stupid things like cut themselves!"

"Why you can't be right because I am a doctor and I have been studying the mind for 20 years!"

"Why your theory is just absolutely wrong because its DANGEROUS!!"

"Why your theory is completely wrong because you are a new ager!!"

The two of you have the combined debating skills of a fourth grader who has been held back two years.

Originally posted by craposaurus
Dr. KevinUnknown & Dr. hippomchippo,
Are you two trying to set a record for the use of ad hominems?
"Why Schizophrenics can't possibly be experiencing an alternative consciousness because they do stupid things like cut themselves!"

"Why you can't be right because I am a doctor and I have been studying the mind for 20 years!"

"Why your theory is just absolutely wrong because its DANGEROUS!!"

"Why your theory is completely wrong because you are a new ager!!"

The two of you have the combined debating skills of a fourth grader who has been held back two years.

I'm not a doctor, I never said your theory was wrong, I said it was dangerous. I never once used an ad hom, I simply stated that the idea was crazy and could potentially hurt people.
I like how you have to use strawmen to attack me when all I'm saying is that your ideas can be very dangerous to someone who is mentally disturbed.
Also like the complete ad hom at the end of your post, nice hypocrisy.

reply to post by kevinunknown


I'd like to say that I pretty much agree with you.

I'm sure its possible that we all exist in the "Matrix", but I haven't seen any proof. I have seen the mentally ill respond favorably to drugs.

woah i agree with you 100% on the "glitches"
like ive had some pretty odd things happen to me ( dont wanna get into them)
and ive had some super scary dreams, and some really inlighting dreams,

i feel like when i dream i can see things that are going to happen, and its almost like im looking at myself lol =D

as I see it we must listen to those people with schizo and or other " madness " as we call it because they really have something to tell us, something very important but like always we do not have time to listen or we think we already know it all .....
those people are sometimes more aware of the problems around us .... and they tell it their way : we think : hey, he or she is crazy !!! ... but we do not listen and we do not say " yes, you are right, very right, but now calm down and smile, do not be upset that way, we understand your feelings about this CRAZY world ... ". Because the reason they are " sick " is the fact that this world is really sick and they feel it a 190 % !!!!! we just fell it a 30 %, ok ?

Dude...that's a mighty big star for you...you're spot on...and I would say it's more an awareness of what's going on rather than "feeling" it...that's why everyone thinks 99% of us conspiracy theorists are wacko's...we blabber on with some crazy sort of crap in a "mad-scientist" sort of fashion...and people don't like to listen until information can be presented rationally, calmly, and in a professional manner...but when you do, you better do it properly, because skeptics will be furiously hounding your theory and facts for flaws...

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Also like the complete ad hom at the end of your post, nice hypocrisy.

You obviously have no idea what an ad hominem is. If I had used the statement as an argument it would have been an ad hominem. I was just making a statement.

First off nobody is going to win this argument as nobody here can prove their points as it is impossible. As dangerous as it is according to the self proclaimed internet doctors on this thread all we can do is come up with theories. Anybody ever been to ats.com? Guess what, it's 99.9% THEORIES!!! What a freakin shocker.

With that being said I think the doctors on this thread took the OP a little too literally. I don't think he literally believes in the Hollywood version of the matrix being a reality although I guess i could be wrong about that.

So here is my theory, and it is going to come off as crazy to anybody who has never truly experienced a conscious hallucination. There are some things you can only acknowledge through experience and a hallucination is most definitely one of them. 3 years ago I would have been siding with the doctors on this thread and the idea that there is nothing super natural about schizophrenia.

I believe that the human mind has evolved in a way such that it has created a partition of sorts, most likely chemical, that keeps a small subset of consciousness tricked into thinking that it belongs to a specific bag of flesh and bones. This illusion benefits the human race by giving us an individual identity that will help further the bag of flesh and bones that the partitioned consciousness belongs to.

In some people this partition doesn't work very well which could cause this subset of consciousness to spill out into the collective conscious, the matrix, spirit dimension, the other side or whatever the heck you want to call it. I think that this partition can also be breached chemically and also through specific types of meditation. Ancient man has been using methods which are illegal to discuss for thousands of years to tap into a higher consciousness. Hindus, Jainists, Buddhist monks as well as other Eastern belief systems have been tapping into this higher consciousness for thousands of years through meditation.

I think that it is possible that schizophrenics are experiencing more consciousness then most of us because of cracks or flaws in this partition of the consciousness. I don't for one minute think this to be a good thing though. I most definitely wouldn't romanticize it in any form or fashion. Anybody who has ever hallucinated knows that although it can be incredibly euphoric and give a sense of everything being interconnected it can also be scary as hell. I wouldn't wish a 24/7 perpetual hallucinogenic mind on my worst of enemies as it would be incredibly dangerous to the person and possibly to those around him. I typically am opposed to meds but I think schizophrenia is one of the exceptions, take your meds keep yourself healthy, you most likely aren't Neo.


(For the mods: I know I insinuated that I have hallucinated. I don't care to discuss the method publicly, send me a U2U if you need an explanation. I will state that it was completely legal, natural and was based on a form of meditation)

[edit on 1-7-2010 by craposaurus]

reply to post by CHA0S


Instead of blaming rational/skeptic people, take their behavior as a motivation.
That should incite you to use higher standards of reasoning to develop/base your ideas/theories upon, rather than only gut-feeling and intuition...
That should make you think more rationally, logically.
In that way what they can argue on is less vague and they have less opportunity to contradict you.

But, if you cant raise/articulate your reasonning enough/properly... You should start to reevaluate it... As it could be less sound than you previously thought...



[edit on 1-7-2010 by Project_USA]

reply to post by LightofLiberty


Perhaps if you posted these conversations we would actually know if they were intelligent or mindless garble if your insanity?

He don't feel offended. When it's 2 AM and I've not slept in 2 days, I hear and see things too. I listen sometimes. Hear hello's and conversations.

[edit on 1-7-2010 by Gorman91]

im not ashamed to admit i didnt read all the stuff between the first and last page....probably where most ppl were arguing.

i read somewhere legit that ppl with psychosis or different kinds of thinking abnormalities often have heightened senses which most of us are able to filter out because our 'filtering mechanisms' are working.


there is no 'normal', except in statistical terms which in my opinion is largely useless in 'real life'.

reply to post by LightofLiberty


You cant be nuts and then tell someone rationally about your experiences and question them. There is no matrix, stop watching movies. Movies have melted your brain lol, Just kidding. Are certain spirits trying to tell you something? Go see a good well known psychic and see if your gifted or just plain coo coo for coco puffs.

I have wondered this myself, schizophrenia is found in DNA. Now imagen an alien being from a far away planet, if this gene was turned on perhaps it would have a differnt effect for him, to better understand the world around him.

But we are a simple breed of monkey, the effect is much differnt.
So either we havn't fully developed as a species to fully intake much a differnt perecption.

Only a theory, but we cant pretend we have all the answers when we havn't left our solar system, think about it being gay use to be called a mental disorder.

Great thread OP!

I always wondered about the same thing... came to accept there is Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to life then we currently understand. What we can learn from our historic fact is that ALL if not majority of people could be wrong... what once seems "normal and acceptable" in another time, is just wrong.

for hundreds of years, people thought Earth is flat.... and for those to question this, because the object of reticule and torture, simply because they're perception of reality was different then the mass.... Today we use "science" as that tool, to shut down anything we can not hammer.

Tomorrow it's gonna be something else... people need to learn to put their Ego behind them and "really" try to understand the world, not by ONE method... but by ALL methods... otherwise the observation is going to be half ars!