It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do revenge and justice have the same meaning?

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:03 PM
link   
What do you personally believe revenge means? How far is it worth taking? Does any of your belief structure have a foundation built on revenge? Could it be something that you are motivated by subconsciously?

From my own perspective i believe that much of what we have as a society is built on the idea of revenge. This ranges from our justice system, to our foreign policy.

What do you think the driving force is behind revenge? Is it super ego? Is it an insecurity with self? How did this word come into development and what was the root meaning behind it?




posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:23 PM
link   
I think that revenge is a lie(fear based). Revenge will tell you that you will feel better if follow its ways. Revenge comes into play when someone makes anothers fears become a reality.

Revenge and Justice are really fear based belief systems that into the end still leave you feeling empty because they both are based on lies and not truth.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:30 PM
link   
reply to post by onequestion
 

As far as the origin of the words is concerned;

"Revenge" comes ultimately from a Latin word meaning to "lay claim to". People "take" revenge; they believe it is their entitlement. So "revenge" is ultimately about their personal emotions.

"Justice" comes from a Latin word meaning "straight, fair, equitable". It's about getting things right. So it ought to be something objective, making sure that everybody gets treated as equally as possible, in the interests of society at large.

When society at large decides to have revengeful feelings, that's when you get lynchings.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:34 PM
link   
I have never taken revenge on anyone, i think the world deserves all the rubbish people it has. People have in effect murdered my life, and i could not give a damn about them, as they are the trash that are ruining society while on some sort of witch hunt to murder me.

Justice is something i doubt this world can do, and give a victim. It means something more than what we perceive it to be.

I will never have justice in my life, but at least the scum that destroyed my life make this world a worse place to be for everyone else.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by onequestion
 

In evolutionary terms, perhaps a tendancy to avenge injuries had survival value-
Any early human known for not taking revenge would just get injured more often.
It would become instinctive.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:06 PM
link   
Onequestion: The difference between revenge and justice is a fine line, and many people, as you have, can make a logical claim that there is no difference. I believe it is all you have said it is.

andy1033: So much anger and blame inside of you. If you were so much 'better' than the 'scum' who 'ruined' your life, you would not have such emotions, as you would understand the 'why's and how's'. If I were to explain to you my own past situations, I am sure they could rival yours and there was a time when I too felt the same as you, until I realized feeling such a way meant I had no control over my life and instead gave it all to them. Only you determine what your life means. Forgiving them is the first step towards bettering yourself.

"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:24 PM
link   
reply to post by onequestion
 


Revenge is something I do not believe in..................Now Karma, that comes NATURALLY


And it does! (How and why I do not know?)



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:30 PM
link   
Revenge and justice come from the same place evolutionarily, but revenge is the one individuals reaction to the wrong, and justice is an objective reaction to the wrong.

I disagree with anyone who says they are both wrong minded. The concept of punishing those who transgress against us is absolutely crucial to having altruism and cooperation. It is impossible to have the latter without punishment against those who "cheat" against those concepts.

This has been demonstrated by game theory, and nature, and by evolutionary computer simulations.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by onequestion
What do you personally believe revenge means? How far is it worth taking? Does any of your belief structure have a foundation built on revenge? Could it be something that you are motivated by subconsciously?


I equate revenge with 'an eye for an eye,' and that it is motivated by emotion.

Justice, is a way of quantifying revenge without emotion. Hence, jail time, restitution or fines.

I can't imagine the situation that would inspire revenge in me. Its power of motivation could only be discovered if and when it showed up.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Do you think the motivational factor behind the transgression is an important fact?

Second line.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:54 PM
link   
That is an interesting questions, both are about getting even. Maybe one is more vigilante. Reciprocity is important in society. If you give "goodness" you expect to get an equal measure back. So if you get "badness" you expect to give an equal amount back. If you don't get justice, that might then force you to change your expectation of "give goodness, get goodness" but then people would stop trying to be good....which of course would be bad
So maybe justice or revenge reinstates the idea of "give goodness, get goodness".



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:56 PM
link   
reply to post by ghaleon12
 


Do you kind of mean, positive and negative reinforcement?

You do good things, get positive reinforcement? You do negative things you get negative reinforcement?

So if you do something bad, and gain something bad in return, does it create something good as a result?

-1+-1=-2



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 08:27 PM
link   
If you truly loved someone, would you find a need for revenge or justice?



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 08:40 PM
link   
I believe very strongly in revenge. It is an essential part of my personal philosophy, and I believe it to be just.

Justice is more subjective, I suppose, seeing as systems of crime and punishment differ depending on geography and ideology.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 08:53 PM
link   
reply to post by onequestion
 


I think individuals (and societies) do consider "intent" very carefully, generally. (Not all individuals do of course, and not all individuals get "intent" right when they do consider) but we do tend to differentiate between whether someone steps on our toe inadvertently or whether they do it on purpose. And generally speaking, we are less vengeful if we think they have hurt us on accident rather than intentionally.

When the action is for certain intentional, we still look even further at their motives generally, as individuals, and are less likely to want revenge against someone starving who steals our sandwich than we are against someone with plenty who steals our sandwich. Of course some people are absolutists, and they follow the "rule" rather than look for nuance.

Interestingly enough, those who are the most hell bent on punishing those who transgress are often the ones who are by nature the most altruistic, so appearances can be deceiving.



new topics

top topics



 
1

log in

join