Israeli FM: 'No Chance' of Palestinian State by 2012

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by airspoon

 

The Jewish population of Germany, worked to get America into WWI, but only after Germany had all but beat the allies, offering the British very reasonable peace terms for an end to the war. The German Jewish population, who had it better in Germany than any other country, persuaded America into enter the war on behalf of the "allies", in exchange for Great Britain to allow a Jewish state in Palestine.

Source? Pretty please?

He does not have one. He is showing his prejudice by making baseless claims that speak of hate for the jewish people. I never really thought he was a anti-semite till now.

reply to post by proudcaptalist


Are you kidding me? This just shows your failed tactic of hollering anti-semitism whenever somebody speaks out about Israel's atrocities. I am a Jew and nothing I say is against is Judaism or the Jewish people. In fact, Zionism is anti-semitic, by having an anti-Palestinian agenda. I'm not anti-semitic for two reasons, one being that I'm Jewish and love my people and the other reason being that I'm siding with semites - Palestinians. Dude, just try to deny ignorance here!

--airspoon


Edited to add:
Zionism and Judaism aren't synonymous.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by airspoon

I studied this in graduate level history course, just something I have in my head, though it is common knowledge among historians.

No it is not. Even Nazi historians did not speak about Zionist. They blamed Jews for turning against Germany because they were Communists. You surely know the difference between both groups.Like - Communist - internationalists and such. As opposed to Zionists - nationalists and such.
And the funny thing that hundreds of thousands of German Jews served in German army in WW1. While only tens of thousands of Jews were Communists.
Even less were Zionists.
So who is that Jewish population you mention i wonder?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I didn't say that the Germans turned on Jews because of Zionism. They turned on the Jewish population because of their agreement with Great Britain. Now later, as time whent on, the Nazis also used the excuse of communism, citing the Bolshevik revolution and a clear communist movement in Bavaria. Arguably, communism also played a part with the German Jewish elite to bring America into the war to defeat the then Germanic aristocracy, hoping that it would allow communism to take off.

--airspoon

[edit on 30-6-2010 by airspoon]

Oh God, here we go again...

99.9% of people have no idea about the history of that region is so it's impossible to have a real debate. Just more hate spewing and blind and ignorant solidarity with either side mixed in with conspiracy theories and baseless conjecture. Just another pointless fight thread.

reply to post by Mr Poopra



Is that arrogance or ignorance that you berate others without actually adding to the debate?

I agree with you, that history means this is a volatile area..

BUT..

That does not mean we should just ignore todays problems and ignore it.
Its an entirely different scenario today.. nuclear weapons, world trade, finances and medical aid... todays world is completely different to the world where these problems were created.
Id like to think todays worlds more civilised and understanding and perhaps we can be civil and create a solution.....


... instead of stating this was born in the old ages and should be treated as such!

reply to post by Mr Poopra


That's generally what Israeli apologists do, they get all huffy when you bring Israeli atrocities to the forefront. You can't expect people be as ignorant as you choose to be. The other guy is just a troll, trying to derail an otherwise perfectly good and informative thread by turning this into a debate about anti-semitism and other irrelevant issues.

The motto of this site is to "deny ignorance" but we can't do that if we ignore the atrocities committed by Israel, just because it's Israel or because pro-Zionist trolls try to derail the thread.

Is what Israel does relevant to us, Americans? Absolutely, because it is in our name and with our tax-dollars that they do these things. Arguably, it is the reason for terrorism or most anti-American sentiment, on behalf of Muslims. I don't know about you, but I sure don't want Child murder and genocide done in my name, especially when the repercussions cost the lives of my fellow citizens, brothers in arms and human beings.

Furthermore, I'm going to deny ignorance by bringing these atrocities up whenever they come up because god only knows that the MSM sure doesn't do it, even though we are financing, supplying and enabling it to happen. It is because of American ignorance that this happens in the first place, so lets try and deny that ignorance to educate our neighbors on what's really happening and how they are involved. If you are American, Israeli, Palestinian or of Jewish dissent, you are involved and if your not any of these nationalities or ethnicities and don't care for any of them, then simply don't respond to the thread, otherwise you're trolling.

--airspoon

Someone's got to do it airspoon, and you have your stuff together on this. Thank you. I'm learning a lot that even I didn't know about Israel after many decades of attempting to make sense of this mess.

Israel has the most fervid and intense public relations and propaganda network the world has ever seen, and it began long before WWII and intensified when the deal for Israel was made. It's tough to go up against a beast like that and make any headway. And the fact that billions of our dollars goes to support this infuriates me.

The one thing I will never get over or forgive is their propagandizing the Holocaust. Not that they did it but the way they did it...at the expense of history and spitting on the memory of all the other people who died during that war, which though many fools believe was just about the Jews and Israel, was about so much more. It's a dangerous revision of history, and it masks some things that are quickly leaving the collective consciousness.

Look at all of these jew hating, anti-Semitic assholes!

Anyone who consistently bashes Israel and only Israel (i'm talking to you airspoon) is clearly either ignorant or a racist. It's more complicated than the way you make it out to be. There are no "good guys" and "bad guys" in this. Neither party is innocent and frankly I'm fed up with the "omg the poor Palestinians are constantly victimized by the monstrous and blood thirsty Jews lol!!1

There is racism and hatred ingrained in both these groups from a young age. They are indoctrinated to hate each other from birth. The cure is to teach our children that they both loved by God and equal. It's possible. My cousin (a Jew) married a Palestinian. They are kind, warm people. But guess what? So are we. The sooner we both see that in each other, the better. Until people see the humanity in each other, don't expect them to treat each other humanely.

I have to add the most interesting part is seeing how different people become once they leave that area. A Palestinian and Jew might want to kill each there, but if you were to move them to the US for example, they'd probably be best friends. I swear that part of the world is cursed.

Since when does attempting to be fair, unemotional, and objective about a matter constitute bashing?

www.associatedcontent.com...

my jewish frend sent this to me so i know not how credible this is but if this is in fact the case it might explain what our fleets realy doing in iran....occording to this guy obamas goal is to "get rid of the mistake of the state of Israel" distance our self from the uk and western europe.......i almost dont wanna belive this as if this is the case then i guess war is inevitable but any reaction from u guys would be aperciated as i dont know if this is propaganda or a credible source and sorry if i put it in the wrong thread

en.wikipedia.org... Thats a link to the wiki page on him seems to be a teologian of sorts so i dunno if this adds more creedence or less credence ill try to find more info

[edit on 1-7-2010 by KilrathiLG]

reply to post by airspoon


Hey, nice thread..ofcourse Israel's government do not want any Palestinian State. That is also one of the main charters of Likud party..the ruling govt. of Israel does not recognize Palestine and will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state.

Read about it here - www.knesset.gov.il...

Even in 2009 Israel warned Palestinians over seeking recognition

JERUSALEM — Israel on Monday warned Palestinians against seeking recognition of an independent state, while dismissing the move as a political manoeuvre amid frustration over the stalled peace process.
"Any unilateral action will undo the framework of past accords and lead to unilateral actions from Israel," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said late on Sunday.
"There is no substitute for negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority," he added.
His comments came after the Palestinians said they intended to ask the UN Security Council to recognise an independent Palestinian state as US efforts to relaunch peace talks flounder.

Israel warns Palestinians over seeking recognition

Therefore, it's not a bit surprising or shock to hear the same thing again from Israeli leaders.

Also don't worry about the day old provocateurs attacking you. They usually follow a step pattern explained here:

To the benefit of the many not-very-bright zionist wannabe apologists who read this a$$iduously, I decided to offer a clear and simple method of arguing the case for Israel. This clear and simple method has been distilled from a life spent listening to and reading Zionist propaganda. It is easy to follow and results are guaranteed or your money back.

So don't hesitate! Take advantage NOW of this revolutionary rhetorical system that will make YOU a great apologist for Israel in less time than it takes to shoot a Palestinian toddler in the eye.

Ready? 1..2..3..GO!

You need to understand just one principle:

The case for Israel is made of four propositions that should always be presented in the correct escalating order.

1. We rock
2. They s%ck
3. You s%ck
4. Everything s%cks

That's it. Now you know everything that it took me a lifetime to learn. The rest is details; filling in the dotted lines.

You begin by saying how great Israel is. Israel want peace; Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East; the desert blooms; kibutz; Israelis invented antibiotics, the wheel, the E minor scale; thanks to the occupation Palestinians no longer live in caves; Israel liberates Arab women; Israel has the most moral army in the world, etc.

This will win over 50% of your listeners immediately. Don't worry about the factual content. This is about brand identity, not writing a PhD. Do you really think BP is 'beyond petroleum'?

Then you go into the second point: They suck. Here you talk about the legal system of Saudi Arabia, gay rights in Iran, slave trade in the Sudan, Mohammad Atta, the burqa, Palestinians dancing after 9/11, Arafat's facial hair, etc.

There is only one additional principle you need to understand here. It will separate you from the amateurs. You need to know your audience. If you've got a crowd already disposed to racist logic, go for it with everything you have. But if you get a liberal crowd, you need to sugar coat the racism a bit. Focus on women rights, human rights, religious tolerance, "clash of civilizations", terrorism, they teach their children to hate, etc. Deep down your audience WANTS to enjoy racism and feel superior. They just need the proper encouragement so they can keep their sophisticated self-image. Give them what they crave and they'll adore you! But be careful not to 'mix n match,' because it will cost you credibility.

When you're done, there will always be dead-enders insisting that abuse of gays in Iran does not justify ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Take a deep breath, and pull the doomsday weapon: You suck!

You're a Jew-hater, Arab-lover, anti-Semite, you're a pinko, a commie, a dreamer, a naive, a self-hater, you have issues, your mother worked for the Nazis, Prince Bandar buys you cookies, you forgot you were responsible for the holocaust, etc. The more the merrier. By the time you end this barrage, only a handful would be left standing. For mopping them up, you use the ultimate postmodern wisdom: Everything sucks.

War, genocide, racism, oppression are everywhere. From the Roma in Italy to the Native-Americans in the U.S., the weak are victimized. Why pick on Israel? It's the way of the world. Look! Right is only in question between equals in power; the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. Ethics, schematics. Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Eat, drink! Carpe diem! The Palestinians would throw us into the sea if they could. Ha ha!

Trust me, that's as far as words can go. If you followed this method faithfully, you've done your work. You should leave the few who are still unconvinced to the forces of order.

Congratulations!
You are now ready to
apologize for Israel like a pro.

How to make the case for Israel and win

Originally posted by Mr Poopra
Anyone who consistently bashes Israel and only Israel (i'm talking to you airspoon) is clearly either ignorant or a racist.

And what qualifications do you have to make such an assessment? Why should anyone take your baseless ad-homs seriously?

IRM

Originally posted by Mr Poopra
Anyone who consistently bashes Israel and only Israel (i'm talking to you airspoon) is clearly either ignorant or a racist.

Anyone who do not raise voice against injustice, crime and genocide and make excuses with being racist or ignorant is a provocateur or simply is to ashamed to talk the topic at hand (and yes I am speaking to you poopra).

If we go by your way of thinking then whenever someone talks about Holocaust he shouldn't criticize Nazi's because that's what everyone does all the time and that would make them ignorant and racist so should now instead praise them!

Isreali arrogance thumbing their noses while continuing to implement their "final solution" as they know the western world will do nothing to stop their genocide and crimes against humanity.. Stop and think.. Who will the "chosen race" go after when there are no more palestinians ?

reply to post by Mr Poopra

Anyone who consistently bashes Israel and only Israel (i'm talking to you airspoon) is clearly either ignorant or a racist. It's more complicated than the way you make it out to be. There are no "good guys" and "bad guys" in this. Neither party is innocent and frankly I'm fed up with the "omg the poor Palestinians are constantly victimized by the monstrous and blood thirsty Jews lol!!1

That's funny because right after WWII, Nazi apologists would make the same argument when news would come out of Germany about the concentration camps. Was the holocaust a complicated issue, even shared between both parties? You do know that sometimes people are oppressed, enslaved and the target of genocide, don't you?

In fact, if it's both sides fault, please tell me, what is it that the Palestinians are doing that's wrong? It's not really complicated at all, in fact it's quite simple. The Israelis want to rid the region of Palestinians and due to international pressure, they can't just go in a mow them down with gas chambers as they would probably like to do. Instead, they have to create conditions that are unfathomable so that the Palestinians act out (as anyone would) and that gives the Israelis an excuse to come in an murder large groups at a time. Then, through the use of pro-Zionists media and the world's largest lobbying groups, they hide from the western world the conditions that they impose on the Palestinian people. Not only do they wait for these instances to kill large numbers, but they also evict families, then arrest them for not having home, only to boot them out of the country for no longer having a residence.

Why is Israel doing this? Well, in order to have a "whole" and "complete" Israel, the Palestinian territories have to be gone. Jerusalem has to be complete and the al Aqsa Mosque has to be demolished in order to rebuild the Temple so the Messiah comes. It will complete Judaism. In fact, I have learned since I was a little boy that this is the goal and will probably be realized within my lifetime. It wasn't until seeing what this
"goal" entails that I became disillusioned with it. What's even crazier, is that Jews laugh at stupid Americans who are so quick to blindly defend Zionism, without realizing how it's accomplished.

Do Zionists loose sleep over the whole sale murder of Palestinians? No, they believe it is God's will and they believe that God handed them this mandate for thousands of year. Zionists believe that it is because they haven't done this earlier, is why they have been wondering around and oppressed themselves for thousands of years.

It is more than clear that this is a one sided fight, solely to blame on Zionism, just as the Holocaust was squarely to blame on Nazism. Ignorance, pure stupidity or blinding bias mixed in with ignorance would lead someone to believe otherwise. In fact, ignorance is so rampant on this issue, the Israelis count on you being so ignorant. That's why they are so effective at their genocidal strategy. Blaming both sides is just as bad as blaming the Palestinians only, because it allows Israel to continue on it's path and make no mistake about it, the goal is to remove every Palestinian man, woman and child, either by force or by death.

--airspoon


p.s. It may be a good idea to research something a little before responding, that way you can at least pretend that you know what you are talking about.

reply to post by proudcaptalist


Airspoon, to comments such as this, and to individuals such as this you just say "I have my reasons".



Yes hate is a natural character of human beings, but hate comes to rise for a reason. Actually two reasons, the sh1t reason is propaganda, the good reason is the truth.

See if Israel wasn't treating Palestinians like sh1t, you wouldn't see so much of these threads.

Don't blame airspoon, blame Israel.

These articles come up not because airspoon made them up, but because Israel continues to occupy Palestine, continues to expand its settlements, continues to treat Palestinians like sh1t, continues denying Palestinians their basic human rights, continues breaking International laws, continues committing war crimes, and to add salt to the wound the US VETOES every hope for justice.

So please, don't blame airspoon, blame Israel.

Your ignorance amuses me.