Greetings from an occult-loving Scientologist!

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posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Novise
Well first of all you sound very interesting! Welcome to the forums and on any topic of your interest you will be sure to find opinions from across the spectrum here. I do not think Scientology and Dianetics are bad on their own, what's bad is the the cult/church ruining people's lives with extortion, and the bookstore/welcome centers scamming people out of their life savings.

I am interested in your dreaming, I would assume you are a lucid dreamer? I am confused on why it costed you money to advance the OT levels if you weren't involved in the church but had an individual teacher.


Hello Novise,

Thank you for being able to separate the harmful actions of people immersed in a bureaucratic institution from the pure pursuit of confronting a reactive mind.

I do not generally control my dreams, but am generally aware that I am dreaming while I am dreaming. I was doing this prior to scientology processing, so I do not credit my lucid dreaming experiences to it. My first experiences with lucid dreaming were in high school while experimenting with dream journals and “HemiSync” cassette tapes from the Monroe Institute. However, I did notice a correlation between my increasing clarity with which I saw myself and others in waking life, and the range of choices I consider when making decisions within my dreams.

Regarding why running scientology levels cost me money away from the church, it is because services cost money. Car mechanics, lawyers, and plumbers charge for their time also. I simply paid someone for the hundreds of hours of proficient technical service they provided me. Since my own experience is related to the original scientology research line of the 1950s and 1960s rather than the personality cult based on the words of Hubbard, I will not speak for the Church of Scientology. However, I will define the concepts of “clear” and “exteriorization” as they pertain to my own experience.

Being “clear” on something simply means that one sees what it is without distorting associations. Technically, being “clear” on something means that placing attention on it does not illicit any arousal of the autonomic nervous system. Clearing practitioners utilize any number of varying biofeedback devices (e.g. E-meters, Clarity Meters, GSR meters, etc.) to detect even slight levels of reactive thought—often unconscious—and “process through” any associations preventing an unbiased assessment of what clients are looking at. Think of the “clear” button on a calculator; whereas entering in a computation with contents already in its stored memory yields erroneous answers, a calculator “cleared” of its previous entries will yield the correct result.

As Juno Lucina writes in The Kingdom Within Tarot, “Innocence is a faculty, an ability that we can all choose to employ at any time that we are able to escape from our preconceptions…correctly perceiving the nature of the object without bias and clearly seeing whatever is presented.” What members in the Church of Scientology do not seem willing to communicate or confront is that we are each already clear on certain subjects. Sure, there are certain common denominators, certain ways in which most of us are wound up (e.g. right vs. wrong, problems, help, change, power, etc.), but this doesn’t mean that everyone is “wound up” the same. A ball of yarn only untangles one way, so there is no room for feeding clients conclusions or enforcing doctrine in correctly-applied scientology tech. Rather, clearing practitioners merely direct their clients’ attention toward areas exciting their “fight or flight” response, to the end of freeing man from the distortions of his reactive mind.

(continued in next post)

J.F.




posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Novise
Also can you explain in your own words the Scientology take on being "clear" and the claim that anyone "clear" is able to exit their body at will? Is it merely a mental exercise one is taught or can anyone at that level achieve a full blown astral projection?

What is your take on Buddhist philosophy? What about the afterlife? Is it a matter of will to keep one's spirit body intact, or is it simply eternal and indestructible?


Exteriorization is leaving your body. It is similar to astral projection, except it is quite effortless once one works through the standard body scripts designed long ago to keep you in them. It is also a gradient phenomenon, meaning that there are varying degrees of out-of-body awareness. Regaining the ability of acting free from one’s body, and developing spiritual abilities, occurs at different times for different people; but, by the time an individual completes his scientology bridge—which, according to Geoffrey Filbert, has probably never been done within the church, s/he will have increased their awareness and ability to cause change as an exterior spirit by several orders of magnitude. Clearing away limiting mind machinery and the reactive contents of the mind increases one’s ability to act independently from their body because, in truth, they never actually were their flesh.

As for Buddhistic philosophy, I have developed a deep respect for it but discern between its vibrant core and its institutionalized dogma. As has happened with most every life-filled idea birthed by a giant, lawyer-minded businessmen bureaucratized it and flung its commercially-packaged pieces into the minds of the mediocre masses. Frankly, most of the Buddhists, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, and Scientologists I have spoken with regarding their beliefs are almost completely ignorant of their belief system’s source materials. Apparently adherents to dogma are functionally illiterate, have dishonest intentions, and/or have not read or understood the writings upon which their dogma is purportedly derived.

But as for Buddhism’s equanimous soul, I like the sheen of its pearls pertaining to non-being, meditation, no-mind, rising above cyclical existence, and its emphasis on holism and balance. I particularly enjoyed the books on Buddhism credited to Osho, and Ouran’s “Ghost Danse” articles (sections have a distinctly Buddhist flavor to them). My research into the life, works, and words of the Dalai Lamas has been enlightening, a bit down the path from Herman Hesse’s book “Siddhartha” I read in high school.

To answer your question about the afterlife, what happens to a spirit after its body dies is hardly uniform, varies depending on what a spirit is in agreement with, and has generally changed over time. This response is already quite long, so perhaps a future post on this is in order. As far as maintaining individual distinctiveness or awareness, I have never had any trouble. However, I recall many times being overwhelmed by death's accompanying loss of identity, personal significances, and sense of reality.

J.F.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by absolutestatic]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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but thanks for replying, point taken, and hey now that the ice is broken, let's be friends! after all, scientologists are people too! (so i've been told, anyway..
)

23


My closest friends have been those who see the world differently, whose insights and questions require lucid analysis and explication. I would be happy to count you among them.

After all, what is experience without contrast?


Sincerely,
J.F.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by absolutestatic]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by absolutestatic
 


Welcome. Nice to have you on board, and I look forward to your contributions.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by GobbledokTChipeater
reply to post by absolutestatic
 


absolutestatic you sound like a smart person with a lot of interesting learning experiences. I feel it is almost a shame you mentioned scientology and tainted peoples opinions. This is coming from someone who takes people for who they are and what they say/do, not for what they believe.

You seem well equipped to deal with the criticism though


[edit on 1/7/10 by GobbledokTChipeater]


LOL... I completely understand, but at some point I would probably have written something reminiscent of scientology (e.g. the reactive mind, exteriorization, the expanded tone scale, awareness as a gradient, etc.) that would have prompted much the same interaction as has occurred in this thread. I elected not to parse an already specialized vocabulary, exploring in depth why the Church of Scientology might have very little (if anything) to do with the practice of scientology. I decided my efforts would be better spent in personal responses to any parties interested enough to ask questions or heckle.

As for now-erected preconceptions potentially affecting others’ consideration of my future posts, in my estimation anyone either unwilling or unable to look past their self-gratifying judgments at options outside their protected beliefs is unlikely to have derived anything spiritually constructive from my posts anyway!

“Meh,” I said, “might as well this over with now.”

J.F.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by absolutestatic]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:11 AM
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You do know that, contrary to popular opinion you can leave Hotel California and live to tell the tale.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by dlifesjrny
After reading that page I then noticed it was on a (Freezone) Scientology website. I may be missing something...I don't understand the connection between that page's info and Scientology.

My other question for you is since you've done OTs, do you believe in body thetans? I understand you answered similar questions. I'm just trying to understand the difference between a church member and non church member. What are the fundamntal beliefs/understandings/ideas that the two share, and conversely what are the points they differ on?


I encountered something similar when looking into Freezone Scientology and the Discordian Society a few years ago. I would guess that the guy hosting that Freezone site either gave some server space to a member, or else started that site to speak his mind on other topics interesting him. As we are writing this on ATS, I am sure you see how many people interested in one alternative context are interested in others as well! As to the specific information you read on that site, I have no direct experience with it and so will not contaminate that line of inquiry with mere hearsay.

In reference to body thetans, it is a fancy-shmancy term to describe those broken spirits who cannot control a body on their own so instead glom on to other spirits (who do have control of a body) to use as an energy source and/or accomplish their own agenda. Generally, the more broken and incapable they are, the smaller the space they occupy. They can be directly addressed, and some are more responsive than others. An average guy walking around on the street has hundreds of these critters, most of them unconscious due to having failed to recover from the traumatic event(s) that broke them sometime in the past. They have their own thoughts, emotions, opinions, and purposes—typically simple and chronic—and tend to “wake up” when external events resemble the event(s) that left them so devastated. Psychics can often see them, and some are more visible than others (usually the larger, awake ones).

I will not speak for anyone else not affiliated with the church, since I am not them. Also, I can only offer vague approximations of what church members are supposed to believe, since I have never been a part of the Church of Scientology. Therefore, I cannot compare and contrast the fundamental beliefs, understandings, and ideas of these two groups with any authority without first conducting considerable research. True, I am not a member of a Church of Scientology (i.e. a non member), but I am equally a “non rapist” and a “non woman.” I get what you are going for, but would talking to one male atheist definitively illustrate what all female “non Catholics” believe?

I am not affiliated with any group, and I adhere to no dogma. I do not “believe” in body thetans. However, I have experienced a great deal that would reasonably fit into that category. Do I “believe” that I have lived other lifetimes in other bodies? No, but I remember them as clearly as I remember eating lunch yesterday. Are there other explanations? Sure. I could list and argue in favor of four without doing any additional research. But after seeing and conversing with spirits for the last decade, arguing in favor of their existence is somewhat pointless.

From what I gather, the Church of Scientology is a personality cult built on the beliefs of Hubbard and policed by military-like procedures and protocols. They have a clearly defined dogma, and if any members disagree they are labeled a “suppressive person” and barred from upper levels. I will not speak for all “non church members,” but this is all rather antithetical to my own actions and experience.

J.F.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by dlifesjrny
I've been interested in the occult, magic, spirit work, etc. for a lifetime, but have had difficulties with getting in touch with "that part" of my deeper being (seeing/feeling/experiencing things beyond my visible/physical self/physical reality).

How/where does one begin? I know there's no simple answer, I just figured I'd ask.

Thanks again!


What have you tried doing so far?

J.F.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Hi there. I read the Bible and a bit on Eastern Philosophy too. Im glad you also add the Holy books and to your library, theres alot of good info in them. I havent learned alot on the kabballah, but I found it in the old testament, so I should take a look at it more when I get the chance. Would like to learn some Hebrew down the line.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by absolutestatic
 


That's one thing I love about ATS! There is a spot for all of us on here, no matter the age, race, religious beliefs(or disbeliefs), political beliefs..it allows us to all come together and get along(or attempt to) lol.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by omarsharif
You do know that, contrary to popular opinion you can leave Hotel California and live to tell the tale.


Shhhhhhh....they're listening!!



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by absolutestatic

Originally posted by dlifesjrny
I've been interested in the occult, magic, spirit work, etc. for a lifetime, but have had difficulties with getting in touch with "that part" of my deeper being (seeing/feeling/experiencing things beyond my visible/physical self/physical reality).

How/where does one begin? I know there's no simple answer, I just figured I'd ask.

Thanks again!


What have you tried doing so far?

J.F.


Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions I have posed.

What have I tried? I've had Wicca classes, tried meditating (I'm more of an active meditator-my brain sorts things out when I'm physically active or performing on a musical instrument-than a passive meditator-lie quietly,etc.), brainwave entrainment (you mentioned you used HemiSync, I have Neuro Programmer 2 and Mind Workstation programs from Transparent Corp., so I could make my own sessions if I knew what frequencies to shoot for), I've read a little here and there, but not really made any headway.

This kind of ties in with your response about body thetans, or critters as you put it.
I'm tempted to say, and this is unlike me and don't want to sound "out there" but I believe there is "something" draining my energy and keeping me from reaching my full potential. I struggle (and to varying degrees suffer) on a daily basis to find and maintain happiness and positive constructive/productive focus.

I believe I am much greater than my current existence displays. I have a decent sense of intuition (that I could honor and listen to more than I do) and am abundant in compassion and understanding of my fellow man. Yet, I feel like I'm unintentionally drowning; I feel there is something afoot hampering my abilities and spirit.

So, my goal would be to harness my potential and extinguish or release any "external" interference.

Edit: spelling

[edit on 2-7-2010 by dlifesjrny]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by absolutestatic
 

Welcome aboard friend. Your writings are very "clear."



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 07:02 PM
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Greetings, and Welcome!
I am a relatively new active member, but have been "lurking" for several years, and have generally found ATS members to be very open and fair-minded, for the most part. I hope you find them the same!
I have read, somewhere in my voyage across the 'net, that the "Church" of Scientology is very different than what was originally intended, and that the organization was likely infiltrated sometime in the '60s and corrupted from it's original purpose. The gist of the story was that Hubbard was definately on to something, and it scared TPTB enough that they decided to interfere. It sounds like you have followed the original path, whether by chance or design, I cannot say. I look forward to your insights on some of the more esoteric topics that come up, as you hold a fairly unique perspective compared to most other members.
Enjoy your stay!



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Totalstranger
 

This is actually my first post. I wanted to share with the poster in AnnArbor that one of the most reputable "outside" scientology related organizations is in your city. They are founded on the principles of the original scientologists without that nasty dogmatic aftertaste. Contact M. Volkman at the applied metapsychology institute. I too received auditing outside of Scientology and have never been a part of the churchiness aspect. I have received Filbert style auditing up OT8.

TD



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by absolutestatic
 


I am impressed with the way you answered questions about your auditing from Mr. Filbert. I too have had a very positive result from just 10 hours of auditing from Geoffrey Filbert many years ago in L.A.. I consider it by far the most productive of all the consciousness expanding methods that I have experienced.

I have also studied his Excalibur Revisited and wish to receive more auditing from him but I don't know how to reach him now. I would very much like to talk to you privately about your experiences with him first.

Thanks,
JD



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by arkashic
 


I too have had a very positive result from just 10 hours of auditing from Geoffrey Filbert many years ago in L.A.. I consider it by far the most productive of all the consciousness expanding methods that I have experienced.

I have also studied his Excalibur Revisited and wish to receive more auditing from him but I don't know how to reach him now. I would very much like to talk to you privately about your experiences with him first.

Thanks,
JD



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 03:18 AM
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In reply to absolutestatic,

Dear Sir,

I have been engaging with Freezone scientology for about 6 months now. I stumbled across Excaliber revisited about 7 months ago and this document blew me open to the idea of doing this work. I found Hank Levin and worked with him for about a month. He is a hell of a nice guy but found his approach a bit haphazard and he was bent on being too interesting. (which by the way, he IS interesting) So, I found an auditor who was never in the COS and I'm currently on the lower third of the Bridge expanded grade 0. My auditor is a big fan of G.F.-- Let me explain why I am writing this to you: I would like to work with G.F. but I don't have any contact info of him. My auditor may be moving
sometime in the next 6 months. I want to work up the bridge with the time I have left. I am absolutely astounded by this work. I've been engaged in spiritual pursuits since I was 19 at full time. 6,000 hours of Za Zen meditation doesn't compare with what I've accomplished here. I had been looking and searching for 30+ years. This is what I care about, period. If you can send me this information, I would greatly appreciate it. I live in northern CA.
Thanks,

Ray



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by absolutestatic
 


Welcome to ATS ,absolutestatic ..Ive always found Scientology to be interesting not something id join but some of the ideas i find fascinating...Cant wait to read your threads and posts..peace,sugarcookie1





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