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NEWS: 'One Nation Under God' to stay in Pledge

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posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by curme


This nation was founded on a lot of dumb ideas. Slavery, inequality of women, the massacre of Native Americans, but as we grow as a Nation, we become more mature, and understand that some of the things this country was founded on aren't that great and needs to be changed.


Well said curme, it is often forgotten under the illusion of grandeur.

[Edited on 16-6-2004 by Narnia]



df1

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Faisca
This nation was founded on Christian principles.


Pure unadulterated poppycock. The nation was founded on masonic principles and I am no mason. The masons on ATS will surely attest to that fact.

The christians which fled to the new world did so to attain freedom from religion, inorder to escape persecution from other christians. In no way was it ever their intention to bestow the power to dictate religion in government, christian or otherwise. You have been brainwashed by your clergy, as your assertion has no basis in fact.
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posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by df1
The christians which fled to the new world did so to attain freedom from religion, inorder to escape persecution from other christians. In no way was it ever their intention to bestow the power to dictate religion in government, christian or otherwise. You have been brainwashed by your clergy, as your assertion has no basis in fact.
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I've been brainwashed by no one. People don't seem to understand that when I say our nation was founded on Christian principles, that doesn't mean I'm saying our country was intended to be a theocracy. But look at our constitution. We have the right to life, freedom, property, due process, etc... And look at Christianity's core beliefs: don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc... Is that so hard to understand?

I wish TC would get into this because he knows a lot more about this than I do...



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Faisca


I wish TC would get into this because he knows a lot more about this than I do...


LOL, should we take this to the pit?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Narnia

Originally posted by Faisca


I wish TC would get into this because he knows a lot more about this than I do...


LOL, should we take this to the pit?

Of course not, it's news... I just know that he's done a lot of research into the founding fathers and the origins of the country, and he knows a lot more than I do.

I guess I just can't get my point across, that I'm not saying we were meant to be a theocracy, but if you look at how our country was intended to be, you can clearly see Christian morals and values...


df1

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Faisca
And look at Christianity's core beliefs: don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc...


Using the bible?
Then this is a jewish nation since the christians took those principles from the jews. It never ceases to amaze me when christians are seemingly unfamiliar with the source of their own scripture.
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posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by Faisca
And look at Christianity's core beliefs: don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc...


Using the bible?
Then this is a jewish nation since the christians took those principles from the jews. It never ceases to amaze me when christians are seemingly unfamiliar with the source of their own scripture.
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Ok, you know what? I don't appreciate you assuming I'm unfamiliar with my religion. Don't go making comments like that when you don't know me and you don't know anything about me.

Even if Christianity comes from the Jews that doesn't matter... It turned into Christianity. The religions share beliefs, but they're different. If you really want to get into it, those beliefs stem from human reason, but they're found in Christianity. The founding fathers were Christian, they looked at Christianity as a source for the ideals on which our country was based. They weren't Jews, so they didn't look at Judaism... It's not that hard of a thing to understand...

But I don't want this thread to stem off from its main purpose... So I guess I'll stop with this debate because it's been discussed many times on ATS...

Continue with the talk about God being taken out of the pledge... I'm sorry for the digression.


df1

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Californian Michael Newdow could not bring the case because he did not have legal control over the now 10-year-old girl. It left open the possibility of future challenges.

The court made no ruling upholding any religion despite the numerous representations to the contrary on this thread. It seems to me that the supremes new this fact long before hearing arguements and pretty much just wasted our tax dollars by hearing the case at all.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by df1
Californian Michael Newdow could not bring the case because he did not have legal control over the now 10-year-old girl. It left open the possibility of future challenges.

The court made no ruling upholding any religion despite the numerous representations to the contrary on this thread. It seems to me that the supremes new this fact long before hearing arguements and pretty much just wasted our tax dollars by hearing the case at all.


Yeah, why didn't some local court in California catch this and stop it before it went anywhere? That's what I want to know, why'd our tax money go for nothing?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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This is obviously not a trivial issue as it has sparked a heated debate on both sides. If it were a non issue, we would not be arguing over semantics, theocracy and the intent of the original pledge. It would simply not be discussed. As I have said before, it isnt over til it is over.



Thank "god" for the 9th circuit court here in San Francisco.

[Edited on 16-6-2004 by Narnia]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Narnia
I would have to agree, the question one has to ask is why was it put in 50 years ago? Was it to "sneak" in a protestant agenda? It should not be there, it is a subliminal message, "under god" most certainly implies a christian god. It is also pretty ethnocentric to say "one nation under god", like the rest of the world does not matter. In other words we are the chosen people, one nation under god. Nice huh? No wonder the world hates America. IMHO.
[Edited on 16-6-2004 by Narnia]


THERE IS NO DEITY WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER. ...

Now, does the whole world hate Islam because of that statement? In, other words, are they the chosen people?




posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 05:53 PM
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They are not invading countries for personal gain, as of yet. If they were to by using that slogan, then sure I could see much of the world disliking that and thinking it arrogant.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 07:04 PM
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Woa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you people can make such a big deal about a word like god, I wish all the fire will be directed to something more useful like making this country more tolerable about the different nationalities and beliefs that make US.


Maybe we should use this energy to make this goverment listen to us for once.


[edit on 17-6-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:37 AM
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I think this is probably what always happens when this topic comes up. It becomes a religious debate and not a question of what the situation actually is.

This is not a theocracy.
The original pledge was altered to include the mention of a deity.
Should that mention be removed?

It doesn't matter what the nation was founded on, what the founding fathers intended or what most of the population believes in. The pledge is not based on a belief system. It's a pledge of allegiance to the country via the flag. Religion was not a factor until it was made a factor.

Bottom line: Does the mention of any deity have a place in the pledge of allegiance for a non-theocratic society?



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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Text Red
People, understand that just because a phrase has "god" in it, does not mean it is the God you worship. The pledge was made to include the term God in an act in June of 1954. It is illegal because it was ratified in Congress. Not in Congress Assembled which is the lawful and legal name of the Congress. There is a difference. Congress is the standing political committee. The Congress are the people talking directly. Not through representatives. They would have voted for the guy if he argued on this premise of law and not on his daughters behalf.

[edit on 6/22/2004 by MOOR45]



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 12:28 AM
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You also have to understand how government has stripped away what little constitutional rights citizens had already. It is our job to look at these laws, rulings ,etc and see how as a majority we can change them. Look how the law on voting with an electoral college and choosing a running mate completely contradicts the Suprem Law of the Land.







 
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