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NEWS: 'One Nation Under God' to stay in Pledge

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posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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In the day of every thing must be politically correct and something offends everyone, one man has lost his battle to change the Pledge of Allegiance by taking out "one nation, under God".
 

Court Ruling


WASHINGTON (AP) The Supreme Court preserved the phrase "one nation, under God," in the Pledge of Allegiance, ruling Monday that a California atheist could not challenge the patriotic oath but sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state.
At least for now, the decision which came on Flag Day leaves untouched the practice in which millions of schoolchildren around the country begin the day by reciting the pledge.

The court said atheist Michael Newdow could not sue to ban the pledge from his daughter's school and others because he did not have legal authority to speak for her.

Chief Justice William Rehnquist agreed with the outcome of the case, but still wrote separately to say that the pledge as recited by schoolchildren does not violate the Constitution. Justices Sandra Day O'Connor and Clarence Thomas agreed with him.

The ruling came on the day that Congress set aside to honor the national flag. The ruling also came exactly 50 years after Congress added the disputed words "under God" to what had been a secular patriotic oath.

The high court's lengthy opinion overturns a ruling two years ago that the teacher-led pledge was unconstitutional in public schools. That appeals court decision set off a national uproar and would have stripped the reference to God from the version of the pledge said by about 9.6 million schoolchildren in California and other western states.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I'm happy about the outcome of this one. I support the "Pledge" and would like to see prayer brought back into our schools.


[edit on 6-14-2004 by Valhall]




posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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The phrase "under God" was added in the last century, not in the original pledge.

Bringing back prayer in schools, free to everyone, sure its a nice thought. But the problems would be more severe than they are now. Shoot, the community church kids already hassle everyone else enough, imagine if they had free reign. Do you really tihnk anyone else would get a word in?

We don't even get a word in now.

The man's case was frivolous, there was no way he would ever win. Prayer isn't coming back into schools and the "under God" phrase isn't hurting anyone. Another man said that we shouldn't say the pledge at all because it pledges allegiance to a flag, when we should only pledge allegiance to God and nothing else. So you see, it works both ways.

Honestly, the pledge has lost its meaning. It seems we only know it out of habit.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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I for one am glad that it will stay in the pledge. I wouldn't want my kids saying it without the word "God" in it.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by kaoscreator
I for one am glad that it will stay in the pledge. I wouldn't want my kids saying it without the word "God" in it.


Out of curiosity, why not?

As for the court decision, it's not much of a decision is it? Basically the SCOTUS said "You don't have the authority to be a plaintiff in this case" to the father, but all it would take to get a similar case heard would be the student him or herself to bring the charge forth, or that student's legal guardian.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Scat
The phrase "under God" was added in the last century, not in the original pledge.

Bringing back prayer in schools, free to everyone, sure its a nice thought. But the problems would be more severe than they are now. Shoot, the community church kids already hassle everyone else enough, imagine if they had free reign. Do you really tihnk anyone else would get a word in?

We don't even get a word in now.

The man's case was frivolous, there was no way he would ever win. Prayer isn't coming back into schools and the "under God" phrase isn't hurting anyone. Another man said that we shouldn't say the pledge at all because it pledges allegiance to a flag, when we should only pledge allegiance to God and nothing else. So you see, it works both ways.

Honestly, the pledge has lost its meaning. It seems we only know it out of habit.


well there are certain amendments that were not there when the consitutition was originally written, shall we dismiss those or challenge them in court as they werent there originally?

i'm an atheist and i dont have a problem with under god being in the pledge. i also believe that if i so chose i can omit those two words without taking everyone else's freedom to include them if they want.

hell say under buddha, allah, shiva, yaweh or whatever you like. its a free country still!



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Whiskey Jack

Out of curiosity, why not?



Well, because for as long as I can remember it has been in the pledge of allegiance. I feel that it has sentimental meaning to my family for starters. I can't explain exactly what it means, we've been through alot together, my father fought in vietnam and my brother is in iraq, neither of them can imagine the word "God" not being in our pledge either.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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If God is ok, why not Jesus? Aren't they one in the same? "One nation, under Jesus, for which it stands""



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by curme
If God is ok, why not Jesus? Aren't they one in the same? "One nation, under Jesus, for which it stands""



um let me refer you to a comment i made earlier...you obviously missed it.




hell say under buddha, allah, shiva, yaweh or whatever you like. its a free country still!


say whatever you like! you can say "under me" for all i care. its a free country. you can say under frogs or whatever else that strikes your fancy.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by curme
If God is ok, why not Jesus? Aren't they one in the same? "One nation, under Jesus, for which it stands""


Well like another person had said, you can really substitute "God" for any deity really. It doesn't have to only be the Christian God. If you want to believe it means Buddah or Shivah, go ahead. To me, it means the Christian God. But the word "god" is a universal term, it could apply really to any deity.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 02:02 PM
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curme, I can answer that, not from the point of view of the pledge, but from a constitutional standpoint and from the intention of the Founding Fathers.

The nation was intended to be not a religious nation, per se, but a Christian nation. However, Christ is a Jew, and the Jews are a big part of Christianity, and so they are afforded a place.

As far as inserting Shive, or whoever, the rest of the world's religions were not afforded a place. That does not mean that you cannot do what you want, but the Founders intended this nation to be a Christian one. It doesn't take a sociologist or a Founding Father to understand that a divided nation, one with numerous sets of norms and values, will not stand long, much less be a great nation.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Hmmm, well from what I understand the use of the word "god" in the pledge was not a religious use of the word but the legal use. Such as viewing god as the judge of all in a fair and legal sense, not a praise and worship sense. You have the right not to say the pledge, although I will admit it is an old tradition and doesn't have any real impact or meaning any more.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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Ok, here's the History of it once again....


Original Pledge read as follows: Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931)
'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'
He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. 'to' added in October, 1892

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
(**Note: Knights of Columbus???)
history.vineyard.net...


It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. In fact,today only half of our fifty states have laws that encourage the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom!
www.usflag.org...



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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Here's some more Historical Goodies:

Since the founding, critics of America's secularism have repeatedly sought to break down the church-state wall. After the Civil War, for example, some clergymen argued that the war's carnage was divine retribution for the founders' refusal to declare the United States a Christian nation, and tried to amend the Constitution to do so.

Typical of the Clergymen, the so called 'Voice of God' & 'Teachers of His Divine Word' huh? So the Civil War Carnage was the Divine Act of God against his children, huh!! Gee, and yet is there any wonder why the Founding Fathers kept Religion out of Government??? Perhaps there is your reason right there!! Cause according to Religion, God Loves a Good War and Carnage against his Children who He also Loves so much. Hell, even Bush claims it's God's Will that he is carrying out by starting a War in Iraq. Interesting isn't people!! Wake up!! Wake up!!! THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY, LIARS AND MURDERERS WHO SAY GOD WANTS THEM TO KILL AND WAGE WAR!!!

The efforts to bring God into the state reached their peak during the so-called "religious revival" of the 1950s. It was a time when Norman Vincent Peale grafted religion onto the era's feel-good consumerism in his best-selling The Power of Positive Thinking; when Billy Graham rose to fame as a Red-baiter who warned that Americans would perish in a nuclear holocaust unless they embraced Jesus Christ; when Secretary of State John Foster Dulles believed that the United States should oppose communism not because the Soviet Union was a totalitarian regime but because its leaders were atheists.

Hand in hand with the Red Scare, to which it was inextricably linked, the new religiosity overran Washington. Politicians outbid one another to prove their piety. President Eisenhower inaugurated that Washington staple: the prayer breakfast. Congress created a prayer room in the Capitol. In 1955, with Ike's support, Congress added the words "In God We Trust" on all paper money. In 1956 it made the same four words the nation's official motto, replacing "E Pluribus Unum." Legislators introduced Constitutional amendments to state that Americans obeyed "the authority and law of Jesus Christ."

And there is more too. Even more about the Knights of Columbus!!
The Pledge of Allegiance
Why we're not one nation "under God."

slate.msn.com...



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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This is the best news all day.

Firstly, this man is an opportunistic bastard who feels the need to use his CHILD to further his ACLU-like agenda. The fact that he could parade his child across the media as this poor little atheist (which according to her mother she is not) who is forced by evil teachers to believe in god simply by stating the pledge is pathetic.

Secondly, think of the precedent this would set. The preambles of ALL 50 STATE CONSTITUTIONS contain the word god in it. Our money says In God we trust.

The seperation of church and state was meant to prevent this from becoming another church of england type situation where sinners could be beheaded by the government if they disagreed with something religiously. Seperation of church and state was NOT however meant to prevent any person in the United States from publicly mentioning the existence of god. If you don't like the pledge, don't say the words.

Some of the State constitutions date back nearly 200 years. Go onto your state's website and read it's Constitution. If you can tell me that you have a better understanding of what our founding fathers intended than our founding fathers do, well then I suggest a psych evaluation.

Good for the supreme court. So it kicked the case on a technicality. The outcome was the same. There's no reason this should've even gone that far, and I'll be saying the pledge with under god in it as long as I'm around. If you're an atheist, good for you, I don't have to be one also.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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ya know its funny, i watched a news report awhile back asking 4th graders(not sure exactly) what they thought and you know every one of their answers? they all said they didnt care, it was stupid and pointless and theres more important things to worry about, i agree with them plus it is wasting time and money to keep dragging this into courts when it could be used on something actually useful instead of this.

even little kids see how childish and retarded it is, i think people need to grow up, not everything is fair and you cant have everything.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 03:06 PM
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Namehere, you're right. Unfortunately this is common for such groups of people. I read an article in a Los Angeles paper saying that people were planning on demanding LA change its name due to the offensive nature of the word "Angel". Apparently this will also refer to all the "San" cities, and "St." cities as well. Their logic is that the poor atheists are being forced to follow Christian ideas because the cities are named after saints or mention angels.

This group of oddities needs to find something else to do.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 07:20 PM
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Man...I'm so tired of these "liberal" activist judges pushing their agenda.


and regardless of Thomas Crown's declaration that the "Founding Fathers wanted this to be a Christian nation" most didn't. The first 7 presidents were high-ranking 'free' masons and 'free' thinkers. This was done deliberately to set the tone for this country. A tone that they wanted to reflect from the European enlightenment period mixed with German mysticism.
These men were far more advanced philosophically than the "jesus chanting sheep" of today. Lets take a look eh kiddies??

"The Treaty of Tripoli, drafted while Washington was still the nation's chief executive, was unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1797. Article Eleven of that treaty states:

As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself not character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musslemen [Muslims] . . . it is declared . . . that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

hmm..must be one of those leftist-commie sites distorting the true meaning of the founding fathers...right? I mean, it does say, "is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" but I'm sure thats taken out of context.
B
U
T
wait...how about the words of a "founding father" Thomas Jefferson, "Millions of men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
Maybe thats taken out of context...maybe that statment came out right after he said, "God is good, Jesus is great...all others will burn in hell for their disbelief". Ahha. Now it makes sense. He probably just said that to score some.
Wait...how about some more TJ, ""Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one he must more approve of the homage of Reason than of blindfolded fear . . . [N]aturally examine, first the religion of your own country. Read the Bible . . . For example, in the book of Joshua we are told the sun stood for several hours . . . it is said that the writer of that book was inspired."
Now that is truly one jesus loving freak there! DAMN! Wait, I have more.
"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. " Ya.
Of course this has been taken out of context yet again..
What it really means (transalted into 21st century linguistics) is, "Jesus is just alright with me!"
YA! say it again kids!
Another one???
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Mineva in the brain of Jupiter."
Man that Thomas J is one deceptive mofo. It almost sounds like.......nah, it couldn't be. I mean, Thomas Crown (SUPER MODERATOR) and intellectual giant has blanketed us with THE TRUTH. I'll repeat it for the weary. "The founding fathers wanted this to be a Christian Nation". Everybody remember?
ok...maybe its this Thomas Jefferson guy. He was kind of a loner...and he was banging a black chick...so there's NO way he was a "Christian" eh???
But the REST of the Founding fathers wanted this to be a Christian Nation...so lets continue learning.
Thomas Paine, "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
Damn...I'll be that guy is a priest or something...
As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of all government to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith. Thomas Paine
More?
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." James Madison

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. James Madison

Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance. James Madison

The establishment of the chaplainship in Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights as well as of Constitutional principles." James Madison

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of greed has produced!" John Adams

"The 'divinity' of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find Christianity encumbered with." John Adams

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, i apprehend, of its being a bad one." Benjamin Franklin

www.exmormon.org... (if you would like to enjoy more)

Now I'll admit that these are some of the LESSER known of the "founding father" and I have obviously taken their words, writings, declarations and publications out of context...but what can I say. I am the Voice of Doom...and you will all learn, in this life or the next.


There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

(thats a big shout out to the christians, today)



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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I am sure glad it was tossed out. Seems sort of silly for a parent to sue on behalf of his daughter, who said she did not mind to say it either. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid these people are. If this anal perferation said he was an atheist, then that is his right, but do not walk on my rights either, buddy-boy.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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[edit on 14-6-2004 by pfcret]



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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Voice_of Doom, that was a work of art! That is all I can even say at this point.

My favorites:
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, i apprehend, of its being a bad one." Benjamin Franklin

There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse



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