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YOUR New Pledge of Allegiance

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posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 01:42 AM
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There is an ongoing debate in the USA over the nature of and context of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. Some think it is idolatry, others want it secular. Some don't think it should be said at all because it amounts to indoctrination.

The Pledge states:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


I for one am a supporter of a pledge. I think it is important to instill pride in ones country, at least because of its values, and Americas values (although not always exhibited or codified by its leaders) are the best on the planet.

I would like to then solicit ideas on what you think would make a more fitting pledge.

I considered simply using a modified version of the American Creed which reads:

I believe in the United States of America, as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.

I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies.


It seems a little long, but has much more that I think should be said than the Pledge. I also considered something related to the Oaths taken by the President or other leaders.

I did come across this simplified version.

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America and to the democracy for which it stands, a nation with freedom and justice for all.


At this point, I have not come up with a single piece that I find suitable, but the great quick thinking minds on ATS might. I will post my own when or if I can come up with one. If we get a really good one that most people like, I would support it going viral.

If you cannot come up with one of your own, what ideas should it contain or leave out?

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Wolf321]




posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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Like I said in a earlier thread. I support the original Pledge of Allegiance.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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I am considering something like this

"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and commit to the principles of freedom, justice, humanity and personal responsibility. [optional] So help me God."

I think it removes the idolatry of the 'flag,' focuses on the ideals of the nation and the constitution, and has an option ending like an oath of office for religious folks. Unlike the current 'under God' which is right in the middle, this one is at the end as a separate sentence.

It holds true to what I feel and think when I say the current pledge, which as stated in another thread.

is to adhere to, foster and defend the principles and ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence, the constitution, and the writings of the founders on matters of freedom in the US, as well as the positive characteristics demonstrated by the people over the course of the nations history (charity, fortitude, faith, etc.)



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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Why change a good thing?

That pledge was created just so for a reason...
A good reason.

America was born a Christian Nation - like it or not.

And don't blah-blah-blah me, I don't want to listen to the BS of crackpots trying to re-write history.
And no I'm not going to debate it.
If you think I'm wrong too bad. You can keep your opinion, it's worthless dog rot to me.

More importantly:

The number of lives that have gone to grave to keep that pledge alive demands, DEMANDS the pledge remains unchanged.

The fallen, that gave their LIVES for America - by their blood alone paid the price to keep that pledge alive and intact AS IS!


To change it? Well, would just go to show what a piece of *bleep* the USA is becoming. Wishy-washy have to please everyone bunch of can't stand up for what's right bunch of p-whipped little wannabees.

Added note: You think any other country, ohhh let's say a Muslim Country would change THEIR pledge of allegiance to make all the newcomers and discomfits happy?

Ha ha ha ha ha!



LOL, nope, only in Americant

peace

[edit on 30-6-2010 by silo13]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by silo13
Added note: You think any other country would change THEIR pledge of allegiance to make all the newcomers and discomfits happy?


I don't propose a change to make 'newcomers and discomfits happy' but to actually represent a true pledge of allegiance.

The same way the constitution didn't clearly represent ALL Americans (blacks, females etc) too many Americans think that the allegiance the Pledge calls for is misdirected to an object or deity.

I am a veteran and in numerous American Legion and VFW meetings I have been in disagreements over the concept of flag burning. Many believe it should be illegal. I am of the belief symbolically destroying personal property that doesn't endanger others to make a point of political speech is FREEDOM. As such, the Flag is a symbol, and unlike the consecration of the host at catholic mass, it is an object only. As such, to pledge allegiance to an object seems odd IMO.

Also, the part about the Republic..Indivisible. The issues of the past 5 or so years have made me personally question this part. I think if a State is too encroached upon or at odds with the Federal government, its people should be able to choose to leave the Union. The Union should be one of mutual consent like any contract, and when both parties are not in agreement, becomes void. Therefore that aspect is not needed in the pledge.

Being a veteran, I don't think that changing something like the Pledge to represent a true personal proclamation of allegiance would be offensive to my fellow servicemen who paid the ultimate price, but a testament to what America IS; much the way the change of the Constitution to include rights for blacks and women accomplished. They didn't die for words, they died for a concept, FREEDOM.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Wolf321]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by silo13
Why change a good thing?

That pledge was created just so for a reason...
A good reason.

America was born a Christian Nation - like it or not.

Except the part where it wasn't, and isn't.


And don't blah-blah-blah me, I don't want to listen to the BS of crackpots trying to re-write history.


You mean like you?


And no I'm not going to debate it.

Of course not. You can't be wrong if you never listen to anything else, isn't that right?


If you think I'm wrong too bad.

You are wrong. Too bad.


You can keep your opinion, it's worthless dog rot to me.


That makes two of us. It's especially worthless since it was wrong in the first place. It's especially funny since you're accusing others of re-writing history. Ha!


More importantly:

The number of lives that have gone to grave to keep that pledge alive demands, DEMANDS the pledge remains unchanged.

The fallen, that gave their LIVES for America - by their blood alone paid the price to keep that pledge alive and intact AS IS!



Times change. Things must change to reflect the times. You can go ahead and keep yourself in the 1700's, but don't drag the rest of us with you. What's wrong with changing something to make it better, or just to reflect on the actual state of the world or country? Doing so doesn't erase the original.



To change it? Well, would just go to show what a piece of *bleep* the USA is becoming. Wishy-washy have to please everyone bunch of can't stand up for what's right bunch of p-whipped little wannabees.

Namecalling and ignorance.


Added note: You think any other country, ohhh let's say a Muslim Country would change THEIR pledge of allegiance to make all the newcomers and discomfits happy?

And a dash of unrelated racism to make this little rant perfectly ignorant.



Ha ha ha ha ha!



LOL, nope, only in Americant

peace


Don't let the barbed-wire door hit you.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Epic Wolf
 

Exactly the 'blah blah blah' I expected - only a lot less eloquent than I would have thought. And I should have known in bringing up an example of another Nations strength in their belief system and someone would throw the race card, lol.
But, put that ignorance aside because the following is just too good to miss.


Don't let the barbed-wire door hit you.


The only thing you said that makes any sense - and I gotta give it to you, you're right - America is a concentration camp now.

Why? Because too many sheeple are too spineless to take a stand on anything.

Stand up for the foundation of the Nation (that includes the Pledge of Allegiance) and you're labeled archaic (that means old fashioned).

Speak your beliefs and all of a sudden you're trying to 'drag others down with morals'.

Take a stand for the ideals the Founding Fathers and People of the American Nation fought and died for?
Watch out, you'll be called a crackpot! Ewwww *shudder*!


Change the Pledge of Allegiance? Who cares. It's just a pledge right?
Just another worthless archaic bunch of tripe those old fogies came up with. Yeah, why not. And while you're at it why not change the Constitution!
It isn't like American's are going to do anything to stop that from being trampled too.


peace

[edit on 30-6-2010 by silo13]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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I agree completely that we need a pledge. In all honesty, I would keep it the way it is...However, if it were to change I would support a pledge that expresses alliegance to the Constitution, the flag, and the country itself. I also believe that the God part should be optional. If you want to say it, go ahead. If not, that's fine too. Regardless what anyone says, this country was NOT founded as a Christian nation...perhaps it was founded by Christian men (not even all of them mind you) but this nation was founded to not have any ties to any one religion. And if anyone wants to say I am trying to "rewrite" history, just know I am an American History major



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
Stand up for the foundation of the Nation (that includes the Pledge of Allegiance) and you're labeled archaic (that means old fashioned).
....
Take a stand for the ideals the Founding Fathers and People of the American Nation fought and died for?
...
Just another worthless archaic bunch of tripe those old fogies came up with. Yeah, why not. And while you're at it why not change the Constitution!


I admire your principle, but you are factually wrong.


The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850-1898). The original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8 issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of America. The event was conceived and promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the magazine, in a campaign to encourage patriotism and the display of the American flag in public schools.


The Pledge is not directly related to the foundation of the nation (coming in 1892) OR the founding fathers. It was conceived as a marketing idea. It was only later adopted as an official Pledge.


Swearing of the pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute.

Source

We CHANGED the original salute, would you prefer we return to that style?


And on 27 occasions, we CHANGED the Constitution.

Standing up for the principles and values for what the founders created and believed is what we Americans should fight to preserve.


[edit on 30-6-2010 by Wolf321]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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I can't believe people support a pledge that is pretty much a verbal agreement to your own enslavement.

What a good program to teach.....not.


The pledge is just more brainwashing from the secular schools.

If your in a room full of people and the pledge is being said, before you start speaking and look around the room.

How many people are doing the same exact thing?



[edit on 30-6-2010 by Quickfix]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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I hope God doesn't mind if I slightly modify a few of His words to make a point...


O America, America, thou that hatest the prophets, and jail them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the actual text from...Matt 23:37-39


37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pagans have been removing God from America for the last 30 years. I hope you are enjoying the results.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


Here is my opinion of a new pledge...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Wolf321
I did come across this simplified version.

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America and to the democracy for which it stands, a nation with freedom and justice for all.


At this point, I have not come up with a single piece that I find suitable, but the great quick thinking minds on ATS might. I will post my own when or if I can come up with one. If we get a really good one that most people like, I would support it going viral.


The Major can't abide by this great nation being described a a democracy; America is a representative republic, free of the squabbling and inequities of democracy. The Major is well aware that some of the recruits will find the above statement counterintuitive, but rest assured, democracy is one step away from anarchy. If you are unwilling to believe the Major, just as the "two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner."

Dismissed.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 

Thank you so much for the information!

I can distinctly hear my first grade Teacher telling the class the Pledge of Allegiance was written by the Founding Fathers 'Right along with the Constitution'!
Guess I'll strike that up to just another clump of poo I learned in school, took for granted was truth and never bothered to research out.

I appreciate being 'spoon fed' to no end, and what I truly appreciate even more is your kindness in the presentation of the information.

Now don't get me wrong, I still stand by my post, in view that the Pledge has been so integrated into the American way of life, who wrote it and why it came about doesn't matter much now that it's meaning has morphed into a symbol of American's basic patriotism - but - I'll still give it a think and I'll read through the information you posted.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
gracie

peace

[edit on 30-6-2010 by silo13]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
Exactly the 'blah blah blah' I expected - only a lot less eloquent than I would have thought.

I'm not here to impress you. But I must admit, you're so eloquently verbose yourself, especially where you said other peoples opinions were "worthless dogrot blah-blah-blah". Well done.


And I should have known in bringing up an example of another Nations strength in their belief system and someone would throw the race card, lol.

You targeted Muslim nations in your example for a reason? What reason could this be other than to jump on the bandwagon of hate its so appropriate right now to be a member of this decade. Although I do agree, I don't believe Muslims would easily change their country for others, but that's mostly because they're seeping in dangerous religious belief, as are many parts of the US. Or any other country for that matter.

To me it looks like you're using the excuse that "if Muslims don't change, we shouldn't either and be just like them!" Am I correct in that you do believe this?




But, put that ignorance aside because the following is just too good to miss.
(Quote omitted)
The only thing you said that makes any sense - and I gotta give it to you, you're right - America is a concentration camp now.


Not what I meant, but go ahead and use it that way, it doesn't matter to me. I guess the definition of ignorance changes when you use it to "Something I don't understand, or refuse to." Also, I didn't know we were not allowed to leave the country. I must have missed those barbed wire fences along the beaches. Or more likely, you missed the human right to leave ones country to go elsewhere and the truly ignorant one here is you.


Why? Because too many sheeple are too spineless to take a stand on anything.


"People should only stand up for what I believe in! Why won't they do what I want?!"



Stand up for the foundation of the Nation (that includes the Pledge of Allegiance) and you're labeled archaic (that means old fashioned).

Speak your beliefs and all of a sudden you're trying to 'drag others down with morals'.


You must get these names a lot.



Take a stand for the ideals the Founding Fathers and People of the American Nation fought and died for?
Watch out, you'll be called a crackpot! Ewwww *shudder*!


Yeah, like slavery and killing the natives! Oh wait.



Change the Pledge of Allegiance? Who cares. It's just a pledge right?
Just another worthless archaic bunch of tripe those old fogies came up with. Yeah, why not. And while you're at it why not change the Constitution!
It isn't like American's are going to do anything to stop that from being trampled too.



It is just a pledge. It's just a bunch of words we give meaning ourselves. It's something we should not even be reciting. No-one should have an obligation to essentially worship a colorful object like a flag or even the country itself. It seems to me like this is the kind of idea you should really be against, not for. But you're right the pledge really is archaic, and like I said before, doesn't represent the times.

Perhaps you're right though. If we change the pledge, we might as well change the constitution! We can't have that! Women and black people aren't full citizens, Blacks are slaves and only considered 3/5ths of a person. Presidents should have no term limit. It's the American way! Thanks for reminding me and showing us what you really believe in, since these things in the Bill of Rights were in no way ever changed.

If you want to see a place where things are the same as they were hundreds of years ago, go look in the deep jungles and find the tribes living there. Don't bother bringing a constitution there though, they won't want to change, just like you.

I realize the Bill of Rights and the constitution are different, but you're claiming that any change to ancient documents that will have less and less relevance to our world as time goes on should never change. You're the problem with the US. You're one of the sheeple.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by silo13]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
it's meaning has morphed into a symbol of American's basic patriotism - but - I'll still give it a think and I'll read through the information you posted.


Thank you for coming back and choosing to reconsider and analyze the idea.

I agree completely that the Pledge has become a symbol of patriotism; unfortunately, I think it is the kind that is dangerous, blind patriotism.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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IMHO we shouldn't change anything. Let's focus on real problems.

Peace



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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~ Self Edit ~

In respect to the OP

Thanks for a great thread...

I hope you enjoy this classic



peace

[edit on 1-7-2010 by silo13]



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
Target? Interesting word.
I chose 'Muslims' as they're simply the first cultural group that came to mind of which I know that takes a unyielding stand on their beliefs. Something which the people of the USA could stand a good dose of.

So...in your example you targeted Muslims as the subject of your example. Thanks for making it twice as clear. People in the US are already too cemented in their often outdated beliefs. Otherwise, it wouldn't be taboo to have an atheist in public office, and abortion would be universally realized as a mere medical procedure that is sometimes needed to save a life, and not "baby murder". Relevant, but another topic.



How do you know I'm not a Muslim? For that matter have you once even heard me say I'm an American? Noooope.

I never said you were, or that I thought you were. Thanks for assuming. However, I did assume (to myself), that your blind patriotism regarding America and Americans was showing you were an American yourself, which is a logical conclusion.


Extra Hint: I'd be the last one to jump on any bandwagon, as should be pretty clear to you by now.

I don't need your hints. Though I must have misread that patriotism and love for American "ideals" as being a bandwagon. A large portion of Americans surely don't believe the same as you do. Not at all.



Ahh, I see, so you don't subscribe to being racists against the color of ones skin - but - you're active in pigeonholing and judging negatively personal choice of religion. Ok, the picture is becoming clearer.


It's not illegal to be racist, and neither is it to dislike religions. Racism and religions are both harmful though. Of course, in my opinion. Religion can be argued as a necessary evil, but racism cannot. Paint this picture however you like; I can guarantee you your broad brush assumptions about me are incorrect.


Nope. But I'll take every opportunity I can to say I admire the strength of belief I've seen in the majority of Muslims I know.
They live by a set of beliefs and will die for them before 'changing to be part of the decade', as some might put it. I find that practice, in theory, commendable.

And this belief of keeping outdated systems is harmful and only causes more conflict as people refuse to change, like you.


You said - 'Don't let the barbed-wire door hit you...' , and in my mind the finished sentence read: 'Don't let the barbed-wire door hit you...in the butt on the way out'.

I can't see any other way to interpret that unfinished sentence, that implication.
So if you don't want to be misunderstood, next time don't be afraid to just stand up and say exactly what you mean.

You finished the sentence correctly, but then turned it into a talking point for yourself regarding America being a "concentration camp". I merely meant it as a revision of the original phrase. You know, an updated changed version.



In a word? No fly list. But that's getting too off topic.

What's a boat? Never heard of that before. Walking? What is that? Anyways, even if there is a no-fly list, it doesn't make it right for it to exist and nullify the right to go where you want to. You can agree with that, can't you?


Human rights to leave your country? Once more - think again.

I agree. You need to think again.

Article 13.
* (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
* (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

UN Declaration of Human Rights
You're welcome.


PS - Ignorant one is me? Hmmm... I think your fingers must be missing something in the translations between brain and keyboard or visa versa. I wonder if it's possible to be intellectually dyslexic? *Shakes head in wonder*...


Saying I have a mental illness. Nice.


*Looks around*... You talkin' to me? *Looks around again*... 'You talking to ME?' (Thank you Di Nero!)


I don't get it.


Sorry, again I don't understand what you're implying or trying to say, but, I will add this...

America belonged to the natives. The early colonists killed the natives and enslaved Africans. They died while doing all of this to make a new country where they could do both of these things in peace.


The treatment the people of all Indian and African Nations received at the hands of the 'White Man' IMO were so abhorrent I honestly believe (at times) the USA is now getting repaid with a big dose of Karma. And if that's the case, then the USA hasn't seen anything yet.


I might agree if I believed in the idea of karma.



Yet still it does not diminish the price paid by so many men and women, loyal patriots, who in believing the words of the Pledge of Allegiance died, and are still suffering and dying due to the USA's crimes against humanity - namely war.

I don't understand what is so special about the pledge or any words that makes them worth dying for. Words and ideas are different. The constitution and the Bill of Rights are all masses of words. The only power they have was the ideas they put into practice. The pledge did not do any of this.
I wonder if the fact that they died committing these crimes of humanity means anything to you.



Key words being 'essentially worship' for if I thought for a moment the Pledge of Allegiance was a promise to 'worship' the country, no, I wouldn't agree. But I don't see a 'pledge to 'align myself with'' as worship. To me 'allegiance' means to stand beside and uphold and protect, and support, not, to worship.

A promise (pledge) to uphold and follow the orders and directives of the country are exactly what the original pledge is. You might be right it isn't worship (though many people do anyways), but my above description of what it really is isn't any better.



Ok, fine whatever (considering I never said any such thing), this is just getting too dysfunctional, Times up.


You said Americans were sheeple. But whatever, I won't stop you. I apologize if I've gotten off topic.



posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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I think a new pledge should be when we see the flag upside down.

We the People Pledge to Respond
When we see an up side down flag and a
Patriot in Need..


By thinking of changing the pledge I take it (same as flying it up side down) as we are in need.



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