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Why just men? Human beings are descended from apes so why exactly are we the only ones that have spirits or chi when these ideas are typically expressed? There are only a few religions and beliefs that I can think of that include animals having a soul but if I were, for any amount of time, to believe that human beings have an actual ethereal spirit being on some other plane or somehow infused with our bodies I would also have to assume that animals have them too. Especially Chimps, Chimp behavior is so similar to our own, they mourn their dead, they go to war, they make tools (even SPEARS).
Our spiritual nature, assuming we have one, is dependent upon our spirit correct? If we have some kind of infinite spirit how can that spirit's nature be a conspiracy. Perhaps you meant that religion and other forms of control ALTER the nature of our spirit or corrupt our consciousness somehow?
I really don't think that anything can truly take our liberty or freedom away, we have to deliver it voluntarily. Even if someone has a gun to your head the action of surrendering freedom is still YOUR decision. The idea that our freedom can be taken away is an illusion, we are always free to choose, within the structural limits and laws of the Universe of course.
It seems blatantly obvious to me that it is possible to perform an act that is Both STO and STS. It's actually inevitable. So when my guardian angel stops me from walking out in front of a bus, it's not ok for her to smile and be happy about it? Pround of herself? lol.
It's like you and those who tout STO speak from a high level, but internally haven't even gotten past dichotomy and duality.
When you say STO is required to "advance" or "ascend" it becomes a ridiculous catch-22. It's dragging things down just for me to discuss this, but obviously people on a lower level would then try to do good things for the "selfish" purpose of ascending (higher energy levels, greater perceptions, bliss, heaven). EDIT: Giving your perspective the benefit of the doubt, it then becomes a matter of sentiment or intention.
Of course it's better to feed someone than to steal from them, but feeding them has it's own STS elsments.
At some point, you have to realize that the act of ascending is not selfish. If that's not selfish, then nothing is. If it is, then I guess all of you who tout STO are in trouble, in a bit of a pickle. You are then doing no different from those with a religion. Your religion is STO. How is it any different?
In these terms, Ascension is THE path (the obvious result of existence on any level), those on the negative side are then there because they want to be. Many of your experiences sound a lot like dreams, btw. I'm sorry, it just bugs me when people come up with another catch-22 to trap people with guilt. This is more insidious than the 10 commandments, because nobody can truly perform an act without an STS element - it's a slider scale, a spectrum... having both STO and STS factors.
Originally posted by Mr Green
reply to post by RobertPaulsim
Good thread on what seems a very complicated area. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us , is it difficult for you to do this though? I mean if this were true it isnt exactly what they will be wanting you to tell people is it ? Do they try to stop you voicing your opinion in any way?
[edit on 2-7-2010 by Mr Green]
What happens when we die?
Also, how certain are you of your answer? If you can give details that'd be great, but I understand the difficulty of translating experiential data into language that one who has not experienced can understand. A bit like explaining to a lifelong deaf how you can communicate without looking at the person!
Your response before to duality, I find interesting. You say the Universe doesn't give a damn, and so it is with our Brain, it does not care if you want to be Mother Theresa or Hannibal Lector, it just follows orders. To experience life from one perspective (be it say STO) would not be a full experience, taking away from free choice, because what choices do you have if you don't know the experience from the other side? That's why (for me) Religion is a hinderence to Spiritual evolution, your performance in this life is predetermined, like coming off the Japanese production line.
Imagining putting all that is to known inside a book.
Thats how low religion is to the full experience.
About not knowing from the other side.. lessons for the spirit (almost
everyone say this) dont require form, so this is not detrimental to
any incarnation. But, IMHO, it will be only the basic lessons on
how to overcome ego.
I wonder if Animals, who are probably Spiritually "immature" will ever progress to a higher consciousness, or are they just happy being who they are and that is why they remain on their level, and Humans, who were not content, are pushing, so to speak, the Universe for change, ascension?
Animals, we sure are all pet lovers in ATS, hehe. Thing is, IMHO the spirit
chooses the medium for incarnation. Like nature, the spirit also progressed
from the same mediums provided for experience.
P.S just remembered I used to have a very good friend named Robert Paul.
You're not from New Zealand by any chance?
Im from Brasil! Hehe... sorry!
[edit on 3-7-2010 by RobertPaulsim]
[edit on 3-7-2010 by RobertPaulsim]