Why does religion keep saying involuntary drives are sinful?

I recently saw a documentary on the "7 deadly sins". (For a review of the History Channel documentary series: www.realmovienews.com...).
Significantly none of them appear in the Bible, just like much of our concept of hell (which stems directly from the fantasy of Dante). And yet, they continue to inform our views on Christianity. Theologians agreed that thinking or feeling "lust" was not wrong in the Old Testament - it was a question on how one acted on that lust.
Jesus made this much worse in the New Testament, by this figure claiming that even "mental lust" was sinful. So, according to Jesus, even if you look at a woman in lust you have commited adultery in your heart. Hence, we find the first "thought crime", or being a sinner by simply being lustful.
On the other hand, lust is a function of the brain, in humans and in other animals. According to the documentary, scientifically feelings of "love" are connected to involuntary dopamine excretion, while "lust" is associated with testosterone. However, each hormone leads to the excretion of the other.
While lust for active heterosexuals keeps the species procreating, controlling it also prevents conflict over female partners. Therefore not all laws against unbridled lust are wrong, but religion takes nature and turns into sin.

Shortly after the doccie, I watched some TBN, and it struck me that they were mixing new and old programs - and the messages haven't changed one bit since the 1970s! Just like live evangelical church services I've seen, they constantly dwell on the same problems, and that if people gave more money, or prayed more then they'd overcome their sins.
However, repeating the same advice over and over for decades implies they aren't conquering anything.
Far from being "new creations" after salvation, people are struggling with the same old addictions and behaviours.

To me it seems that there is a conspiracy in Christianity (and possibly other faiths). It takes our natural drives, makes us feel guilty about them, and then offers to cure them by giving money and hearing repetative junk, while WE are made to feel ultimately responsible for any failures.
Where is the supernatural intervention of "Jesus"?
Where is the radical "healing" promised by all the claptrap?
I think the churches would collapse if people actually stopped sinning.
80% Of all sermons are about guilt-tripping people, so it's all about making them feel just guilty enough to keep coming back.
So it appears that religion takes a natural drive, constrains it beyond acceptable biology, and once they have aroused people's guilt they use a carrot and stick approach to keep them hooked!


[edit on 29-6-2010 by halfoldman]

I'm not religious and I probably don't know what I'm talking about especially as to the actual content of the Bible. If God gave us the freedom of choice was it before Adam and Eve. I think the original sin has been stated that after they ate the apple they became aware of their bodies or nakedness. Does this mean that they became aware of their desires and if so were they aware of their involuntary drives such as sexual desire? The freedom of choice means that they could choose to sin or not to sin but at what point did sin become sin and what could be considered as sin to them? I believe that religion can be a good thing for some people but it depends on how much spirituality is involved. There is no spirituality involved in asking for donations, tithing or all out commercialization. The tools used to drive that money thing obviously involve guilt .

EH, I saw that. Good show. I always thought that sin was more of a action than a thought. Another reason why the church hates me. Hated on ats and the church. Go fig. I digress...

I figured out that all of sin is basically and majority a side of our animalistic. We are animals and if you disagree with that then something is wrong with you and not me. We are the product of nature. nature=God To me, but maybe not you. I was told by an important person that sin is action. anything can be a sin. cheating, eating to much, writing on the wall, being naked in front of people who don't want to be naked. ANYTHING!. Trying to force your will on someone as well. What I have found out is that 70% of the sin that we do is animalistic. 30% we just do not know of or do not want to believe it is bad.

Religion is functionally used as a kind of "proto-law," and is intended to guide people away from practices that would create all kinds of havoc in a village or city. If you're all alone on a desert island, who cares? But if you're in a social network like a city, and going around killing people, impregnating all the women, stealing, and generally confusing property and inheritance rights, that's going to cause a lot of problems.

Generally, what is defined as "good" is anything that allows a city or country or people to peacefully live and reproduce from generation to generation. Anything that doesn't do that is generally called "bad," or a "sin." So there's a practical purpose to it all.

As for making up fanciful stories about some big Grandpa in the Sky who will punish you if you do bad things, that's just the only way to get some people to follow the rules. Not everybody is smart enough to see the long-term advantages of conforming for the greater good of the tribe.

I guess we would have to go back in time and ask the Piso family what they meant when they wrote that nonsense.

In all honesty, the book is nonsense and the characters are all fiction. Silly people pray to imaginary friends without doing the slightest bit of research on their faith to see who actually wrote it.

What a SCAM, big time. Grown adults and their imaginary friends.

I am anti anarchy. Did I just say anti anti? lol

Anarchy has no real thread to hold. I think socially the guidelines that are given to us are good and I see no problem within them. Although, people do have a "fight the system attitude". I myself despise the system that I live in. I am forced to go to school 12 years and go to college all in the pursuit to make more money. Is that a good life? I dislike the united states. I dislike how the rich always win and I dislike all the thing within it. The new testament is predominantly very anti-government IMO. Although, all roads lead to rome thread may say otherwise.

But what can I do? nothing. I think whole concept of the NT is preaching that the individual is unable to overtake the government.

Do not get me wrong, I dislike our entire economic and social structure. I do not like western culture and their ethnocentric viewpoints. Some parts of india I hear are extremely peaceful, but I am poor and oppressed.



[edit on 29-6-2010 by Jordan River]

just to chime in here with my .2 cents

always think its funny when ppl make fun of religion and concept of god, and often while embracing evolution, espousing the way nature operates, then refuse to truly follow how nature works by practicing what we fondly call 'social darwinism'.

ya see, in nature, the weak and the deformed and more or less the 'undesirable' are summarily killed, eaten, left behind , or otherwise neglected by even their parents and those supposed to protect them....and yet oh no, humans cant do that, that wouldnt be 'un-civilized'. Im still not sure if animals give a FFFFF about what civilized means....i know i dont.

it took humans to depart from the way nature does things....cleanly, efficiently, and in a pretty decent degree of balance.

humans have the ability to live outside of whats 'natural'.....so in my very unscientific opinion, humans are not natural at all anymore.....we seriously havent a clue.....and all of you who get high on your intellect can go ffffff yourselves.....i see right through your bogus arguments.

I'm not religious and I believe the bible is the truth or thats how it all went down, but there are probably some true parts to the bible. Most of it is probably just a lie to keep everyone blind or a slave. I also believe its if you act on those impulses that is when it is sin.

reply to post by Baloney


and by the way, i think youre imaginary....after all, the only proof i have that you exist is this rediculous post......which could very well have originated from some program somewhere that figured out on its own how to write sentences in a structured format with a weak attempt at sarcasm.


proof....goes poof

I truly believe that Rome "USED" Christianity to create world domination. THey did not embrace it at all when it was starting. Rome=Catholic Church

reply to post by halfoldman


The whole idea of spirituality is to conquer this materialistic world. Those sins will lead to an unhealthy life, so the main practice is moderation and the ability to conquer oneself.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by halfoldman

 

The whole idea of spirituality is to conquer this materialistic world. Those sins will lead to an unhealthy life, so the main practice is moderation and the ability to conquer oneself.

Know thy self. Greek god Apollo.

Originally posted by Jordan River
I truly believe that Rome "USED" Christianity to create world domination. THey did not embrace it at all when it was starting. Rome=Catholic Church

Ill give you that, and the Vatican is an integral part of he control structure. The idea of a thought crime is based on lording guilt over people. Yet there is also a deeper part. We as sentient beings like to punish ourselves with the impossible idea of perfection. Most people are masochistic but express it in differing ways.

Originally posted by ISHAMAGI

Originally posted by Jordan River
I truly believe that Rome "USED" Christianity to create world domination. THey did not embrace it at all when it was starting. Rome=Catholic Church

Ill give you that, and the Vatican is an integral part of he control structure. The idea of a thought crime is based on lording guilt over people. Yet there is also a deeper part. We as sentient beings like to punish ourselves with the impossible idea of perfection. Most people are masochistic but express it in differing ways.

I hate the word Sentient. Sentient reminds me of Optimus prime quote. Can I use the word conscious. There is no such thing as perfect. That being said all humans are perfectionist one way or another. What people do not think is that unperfection teaches the one to be perfected for the future. That is a great deal of wisdom I have learned in my 25 year of life. Jesus is the only perfect human IMO that has been on earth. and IMO died and came back. But this also does not deal with other religions. Such as hindu, buddhist, etc etc. All relgions may be right. Jesus never saids yes or no to reincarnation. He alludes to it. Gnosticism also to me is an extension of the Kabblah. Christanity Kabbla if you will. It iis all right under the correct context.

But!

some are wrong, some are forged and some are just damn strange. I love the gospel of thomas and use that to think into deeper matters.

and what context do I use except the context of love and being good, positive and happy. No true catholic church should make you unhappy. they repress what you can truly be. I go to church for a different reason and that is for discipline. I do not agree with a lot and most I do agree.

Just be happy with spirituality. I am a little drained from this post

The irony in all religion is that religion is basically sexual energy, and based on it. All religions are about sex.

The irony eh, maybe religion was made for man to control those forces eh.

reply to post by ikonspyre


If it was a "weak attempt" it sure got your feathers ruffled.

The Piso family wrote that book and fabricated all the characters. It was to unify all the different supersticous people and the various myths at the time. The bible copied all the earlier stories into one collection to suit their particular plans for the masses.

Um, and yes I am imaginary and talking donkeys and talking snakes are real!!

Sorry, I just have to laugh at silly beliefs sometimes, no offense to anyone though.





[edit on 29-6-2010 by Baloney]

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Religion is functionally used as a kind of "proto-law," and is intended to guide people away from practices that would create all kinds of havoc in a village or city. If you're all alone on a desert island, who cares? But if you're in a social network like a city, and going around killing people, impregnating all the women, stealing, and generally confusing property and inheritance rights, that's going to cause a lot of problems.

Generally, what is defined as "good" is anything that allows a city or country or people to peacefully live and reproduce from generation to generation. Anything that doesn't do that is generally called "bad," or a "sin." So there's a practical purpose to it all.

As for making up fanciful stories about some big Grandpa in the Sky who will punish you if you do bad things, that's just the only way to get some people to follow the rules. Not everybody is smart enough to see the long-term advantages of conforming for the greater good of the tribe.

Good point. That is, as long as people are in your tribe you should constrain your behavior. By implication that makes things worse for your enemies and slaves. Whatever cruelty you show your own can be magnified on them, and your drives can get free reign - the long history of slavery in Christian society testifies to that.

I dislike what man has done to the bible. It is a damn shame. More so with Genesis and the New Testament which is hurtful. If you have notice that the main key to knowing what really happen is the demon lillith. She is mentioned in isaiah and Egyptian and Babylonians myths. If you incorporate her into you may see why Hebrews changed genesis. They did not want to deal with divorce. who did 4,000 years ago?

Originally posted by Baloney
reply to post by ikonspyre

 

r particular plans for the masses.

Um, and yes I am imaginary and talking donkeys and talking snakes are real!!

Sorry, I just have to laugh at silly beliefs sometimes, no offense to anyone though.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by Baloney]

Well, were studying metaphors in myth class. Our teacher "greek" is a christian and pretty much takes apart a lot of the bible.

This is my own interpatation. You talk like a snake (lies) and your laughs are of that of a donkey (ass)
I am sorry but I could not help it. But then again you could take it literal like you have

It's a shame morality in so much of Christian thought has taken on such a shrill and neurotic tone.

It might be more productive to first appraoch the topic of immoral behavior from the angle of it being ultimately non-beneficial to the believer, in that it represents a selfishness that distances one from the Divine and prevents transcendent union and oneness. The spiritual states and subjective inner experiences of the believer are damaged by acts that strengthen the ego, increase separation from others, perpetuate pain, dull compassion and love, and so forth. In other words, the hardening of boundries in general promoted by immoral action prevents core fusion with the Divine and other assorted high spiritual states. The way out out is to boost compassion and act for the good of others.

This formulation of sin and morality ameliorates the excessive "guilt factor" and levers of crass social manipulation assosiated with more conventional theology, and it is also applicable to all forms of human spirituality, Christian and non-Christian.