If Barry's actions in the Persian Gulf lead to a Nuclear War will the MSM still be Cheerleaders for

Originally posted by BigDaveJr
I think that if A Nuclear War occurs because of Barry's actions in the Middle East,some liberal voices in the Media(Those on MSNBC for instance)will be brutal and throw Him aside.

That would certainly bring more respect to MSNBC then would it not? When Bush went all cowboy the rightwing media decided to jump on a bandwagon right through to when the man left office and the evidence of the wars faliure. Infact there have been calls for resignation for vice president Biden and other staff from various liberal media sources. When Bush was in office, there was almost this silent agreement to keep shut and pony up. Most of the tea party folks today, including in particular Palin and Perry, kept right on that Bush bandwagon. I'd be curious to know when was the last piece of criticism regarding the Iraq war, the patriot act, that came out from any of these rightwing sources.

In anycase until this president actually invades or wages war, its all talk and speculation for now. I can tell you that if he were to take such actions, atleast liberals would be honest enough to speak out, unlike their conservative counterparts during the Bush years.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Obama isn't going to invade outright.

He's sticking a thumb in the eye of the Iranians.

Boarding their ships at gunpoint is an act of war.

Period.

Iran has every right to attack our ships for doing that. Ships flying the Iranian flag are sovereign Iranian territory.

While Iran might just launch an attack for this all on its own, I'm wagering the more likely scenario is that Israel launches an attack with US consent; after which the US jumps on board as "protecting an ally"

The US is pre-positioning its fleet for just such an occasion right now, which tells you action could be imminent. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see Israel launch an air strike on Iran in the next week.



[edit on 29-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Obama isn't going to invade outright.

So now we are shifting the definition? In that case it will be so easy for you to call a ship passing the Iranian gulf an invasion.

Boarding their ships at gunpoint is an act of war.

Period.

Iran has every right to attack our ships for doing that.

When did US officials do that? Care to link?

And i agree with you, Iran has every right to defend herself.


[edit on 29-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by getreadyalready

Support the Prez. Campaign, Run for office, join a Tea Party, whatever, get a better government in office, but know your place and quit whining like a 2nd grader that didn't get his way!

I think the rhetoric displayed by the OP already seems remarkably similar to what seems to come from many of the "Tea Party" folks, already.

Spooled up, and pumped up by a whole buncha those on the far-right too...

A shame that this sort of knee-jerking goes on, instead of valid conversations and discussions.

I wish I could link a political cartoon I saw...was perfectly apt for this...can't find it online, atm.... Depicted an elephant (representing the GOP) blowing a vuvuzela. Caption was something like "This is much cheaper...but still makes as much sense..."

Ahhhh...here it is!!!





[edit on 29 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

Obama isn't going to invade outright without pretext.

Once the war gets going, he will certainly invade.

The main goal here is to prevent Iran from selling oil outside of the dollar system. This is a big no-no. Its also the reason why China might decide to involve itself on the side of the Iranians.

Right now we are holding China hostage with our debt. China requires US debt to buy oil in dollars, but can by-pass the US markets by dealing with Iran/Russia directly.

This threatens the dollars global hegemony as the world reserve currency.

The US would also like to get Russia out of the picture because those guys are also brokering deals for oil outside of the dollar.

Once Iran is secure, the attention will turn to Russia.

After Russia, that locks up pretty much all the major oil resources under the dollar and will allow the US to continue its imperial expansion without having to actually have a productive economy.

I'm betting we fail in achieving this on all fronts though.

The US will default on its debt obligations and the world will eventually reject the US dollar as its reserve.



[edit on 29-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, I don't wanna get off-topic, but that is the "TV Tea Party." It has nothing to do with the real Tea Parties in your local towns. I was one of the first 3 people to talk about Tea Parties here in Tallahassee. I was one of the original 3 at our first meeting (at my Mason's lodge, no less).

Now, the Party has outgrown me by far, and I don't even have the time to participate like I want to, but suffice to say that it is about 10% what you see on TV and about 90% what you see here on ATS from the "middle crowd." The Tea Parties are working hard to sack all the incumbents, not just the Democrats. They want a total wash in November to send a message for 2012. They want "no more politicians." They want real Representatives instead!

When did US officials do that? Care to link?

And i agree with you, Iran has every right to defend herself.

www.flonnet.com...

The new round of sanctions will for the first time prohibit leading Iranian banks from doing business in the global market. Forty Iranian companies and corporations have been put on the U.N. blockade list. Fifteen of these companies are allegedly linked to Iran's Revolutionary Guards. The resolution requires U.N. member-states to inspect ships and planes heading to or leaving from Iran if they suspect that there is banned material on board. The resolution also calls for the banning of all arms exports to Iran. It specifically bans Iran from pursuing “any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons”.

www.smh.com.au...

TEHRAN: Iran has warned it is ready to retaliate if its vessels are searched and it will postpone nuclear talks with the big powers in response to new international sanctions...

''Anybody who insists on implementing this will regret this very harshly,'' he said of any boat searches. ''We reserve our right for retaliation and defending ourselves.''

At the weekend a Revolutionary Guards commander threatened that Iran might respond to such searches in the Hormuz Strait, a narrow waterway entering the Persian Gulf, the world's biggest oil hub.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

I've actually been on the bridge of a US warship going through the straights and have been questioned by Iranian patrol boats in regards to our actions.

Iran takes its territorial waters seriously.

If we decide to start boarding ships in their waters, they are not going to take kindly to it.

Iran is not Iraq.

They have the gulf coast covered in anti-ship missile batteries.

I am confident they could sink a large number of our ships in one shot if they were provoked.

Say for instance Israel launches an air raid.

Iran might respond by destroying all our ships in the gulf.

To successfully pull of such a stunt without a major loss of US warships, US stealth fighters would have to take out the Iranian anti-shipping/air grid simultaneously or else US warships could face a massive counter attack in retaliation for an Israeli strike.

Then again, that might be what the US criminals are hoping for.

A major loss of US warships would enrage the US public - no matter if Iran was justified in its actions or not.


[edit on 29-6-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by BigDaveJr


This war that may spark was drafted before "O" was elected. If people who speak with intelligence cannot see that these policies and actions by the presidents are usually residual effects from previous presidents then to pay attention to their comments is just mind entertainment. Remember the AXIS OF EVIL FROM WHAT 8 OR 9 YEARS AGO??? This was all planned believe it or not...

What is sad is I dont even think the elites know what they are getting into I REALLY FEEL THE ELITES DONT SEE WHATS COMMING ESPECIALLY IF THEY WANT TO HAVE EARTH SLAVES IN THEIR POSSESSION.... It is their faults for not having FAITH and what becomes of them and who they love EYE 4 AN EYE IS REAL....

[edit on 6/29/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Iran is not Iraq.

They have the gulf coast covered in anti-ship missile batteries.

I am confident they could sink a large number of our ships in one shot if they were provoked.

Say for instance Israel launches an air raid.

Iran might respond by destroying all our ships in the gulf.

It must have been an old ship you were on, this isn't the 1980s anymore, we NATO countries now have quite good countermeasures for anti-ship missiles. On top of this the Iranian Navy is a joke compared to that of the United States and the navies in the European Union. To assume that they could go toe-to-toe with the largest forces on the planet is giving them even more credit than they give themselves.

Here's a plan that does not involve an invasion of Iran, it would work and it would be rather simple: Containment.

Assuming that Iran is in fact suicidal enough to fire a Thaqeb anti-ship missile at the United States Navy (who will destroy the missile with their CWIS) their shore batteries would become the targets of a staggering number of Tomahawk cruise missiles and long-range stand-off missiles.

Also Iran would then have gone force-attack on a NATO member. That is rather unfortunate for them. At such time they would be promptly denied an Air Force, Navy and any other offensive capabilities. If they decided to mobilize and try to take on the US forces in Iraq or the NATO forces in Afghanistan they would be pounded into dust from the air on their way there.

At which point the "Great and Powerful" Islamic "Republic" of Iran would be reduced to a state much like Iraq was in the First Gulf War. NATO air patrols would cross their skies constantly hunting for remaining SAM sites and Wild Weasel attacking them as they did.

In the end there would not even be a need for an invasion force.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


I see you have faith in CheeseWiz.

I do not.

Knowing our commanders, I'm sure they don't even have the systems turned on. If Israel carries out a strike and the powers-that-be don't inform the commanders in the gulf of this ahead of time, its doubtful those defensive units would even be turned on.

But even if they did, the types of missiles Iran has are capable of defeating such systems. I'm sure if the cheesewiz units were actually turned on that we would shoot down a good number of them, but I'm equally sure a portion would get through our defenses and some ships would be lost.

Looking at this from the Iranian perspective, they have nothing to lose.

If they come under attack, they might as well go balls to the walls crazy and shoot everything they can as fast as they can because they know the whirlwind is coming.

Originally posted by BigDaveJr
If Barry's actions in the Persian Gulf lead to a Nuclear War will the MSM still be Cheerleaders
[edit on 29-6-2010 by BigDaveJr]

Probably not. Maybe Rush and the GOP should start cheering for Nuclear War in the Middle East the same way they would like to see the country fail.

Dumb thread.

We need a new category besides "Political Madness"...it just doesn't cover it anymore.

How about "Political Stupidity"?

[edit on 29-6-2010 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by maybereal11

We need a new category besides "Political Madness"...it just doesn't cover it anymore.

How about "Political Stupidity"?

[edit on 29-6-2010 by maybereal11]

Or "Political Ignorance and Divisiveness We Refuse to Acknowledge Any Longer"

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Or "Political Ignorance and Divisiveness We Refuse to Acknowledge Any Longer"

As far as "Ignorance" I have discovered that more often than not folks here are not "ignorant" of the situation or facts...the just happily spout things they know to be logically unfounded or outright BS to serve thier lizard brained world view.

"Political Divisivness" would be a warrented category though....threads that serve no other purpose beyond fueling partisanship.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

I see you have faith in CheeseWiz.

I do not.

Knowing our commanders, I'm sure they don't even have the systems turned on. If Israel carries out a strike and the powers-that-be don't inform the commanders in the gulf of this ahead of time, its doubtful those defensive units would even be turned on.

But even if they did, the types of missiles Iran has are capable of defeating such systems. I'm sure if the cheesewiz units were actually turned on that we would shoot down a good number of them, but I'm equally sure a portion would get through our defenses and some ships would be lost.

Looking at this from the Iranian perspective, they have nothing to lose.

If they come under attack, they might as well go balls to the walls crazy and shoot everything they can as fast as they can because they know the whirlwind is coming.

Your lack of faith in all things the American government does is becoming quite amusing. I never said that there will be no casualties, just that the United States will win with absolutely overwhelming force.

The Israelis had no reason to believe that the INS Hanit would be hit by an anti-ship missile because they were unaware that Hezbollah had the missiles, the United States is going into this knowing that these missiles exist and it would be gross negligence for any ship not to have their defensive systems fully working at all times when in range of that threat.

It is almost as if you want the United States to get their butts kicked in this one from your posts, but Iran does have another option that you seem to be completely forgetting: They can eat it, submit to the inspections and rattle their little sabers a bit but in the end realize, as any rational country would, that they face impossible odds in a military conflict and their best hope of survival is to not start anything.

If they are smart and not sending any illegal materials on their ships, the US would look foolish, and that's probably a much better outcome for Iran than being a contained state.

reply to post by maybereal11


Oh I don't disagree that much of it is very intentional...by those who know they can get some to follow, usually by preying on their fears and emotions. That's where the ignorance comes in. But too much off topic (if there even is a topic here).

and Bushes handling of the nuclear situation in the gulf helped how

Originally posted by BigDaveJr
I think that if A Nuclear War occurs because of Barry's actions in the Middle East,some liberal voices in the Media(Those on MSNBC for instance)will be brutal and throw Him aside. I think However that most of the media(those on CBS,ABC,NBC and CNN)will go down in flames with Barry and the Gov't while still singing it's praises.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by BigDaveJr]

And who started the mess in the ME??? The memories of some people on this forum are very very very short