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Obama's Citizenship

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posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:14 AM
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Hello all,

I've been a lurker on this site for probably 3-4 years now (at least). I finally registered today and have been enjoying some of the recent threads in which I've been able to participate.

that being said I figured I'd start my first thread on Obama. For the longest time I've thought his citizenship status is questionable at best, here is some recent information I've uncovered and I'd like to hear you guys opinion on it.

A close friend of mine emailed this to me:

VERY QUIETLY OBAMA'S CITIZENSHIP CASE REACHES THE SUPREME COURT
Wednesday, June 9, 2010

AP - WASHINGTON D.C. -
In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama's qualifications for the presidency, the group "Americans for Freedom of Information" has Released copies of President Obama's college transcripts from Occidental College. Released today, the transcript school indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.
This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama's detractors have been seeking. Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama's legitimacy and qualification to serve as President article titled, "Obama Eligibility Questioned," leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama's first official visit to the U.K. In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama's legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey. This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio's case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama's citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama's campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

LET OTHER FOLKS KNOW THIS NEWS, THE MEDIA WON'T !

Subject: RE: Issue of Passport?

While I've little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one simple question: What passport did he use when he was shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ?

So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?

And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?

The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers. It makes the




posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:16 AM
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Continued:

debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.

Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
A : Yes, by his own admission.

Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities that we know of so far...
1) He traveled with a U.S... Passport,
2) He traveled with a British passport, or
3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.

Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S... State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Sm0kinGuns
Hello all,

I've been a lurker on this site for probably 3-4 years now (at least). I finally registered today and have been enjoying some of the recent threads in which I've been able to participate.

that being said I figured I'd start my first thread on Obama. For the longest time I've thought his citizenship status is questionable at best, here is some recent information I've uncovered and I'd like to hear you guys opinion on it.

A close friend of mine emailed this to me:

VERY QUIETLY OBAMA'S CITIZENSHIP CASE REACHES THE SUPREME COURT
Wednesday, June 9, 2010

AP - WASHINGTON D.C. -
In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama's qualifications for the presidency, the group "Americans for Freedom of Information" has Released copies of President Obama's college transcripts from Occidental College. Released today, the transcript school indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.
This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama's detractors have been seeking. Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama's legitimacy and qualification to serve as President article titled, "Obama Eligibility Questioned," leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama's first official visit to the U.K. In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama's legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey. This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio's case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama's citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama's campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

LET OTHER FOLKS KNOW THIS NEWS, THE MEDIA WON'T !

Subject: RE: Issue of Passport?

While I've little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one simple question: What passport did he use when he was shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ?

So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?

And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?

The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers. It makes the


The email was originally dated April 1, 2009. He attended Occidental under the name Obama. He couldn't recieve a Fulbright while there if he was an indonesian citizen because they only fund indonesians for graduate studies. The Americans for freedom of information didn't exist when the email came out. www.snopes.com...

Sorry but it's a well known hoax, that link covers the entire email...



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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Thank you for enlightening me. I'm still a little new to this I'll be sure to do a little more leg work on anything else i post up.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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-repeat-

[edit on 29-6-2010 by MysterE]



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Sm0kinGuns
Continued:

debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.

Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
A : Yes, by his own admission.

Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities that we know of so far...
1) He traveled with a U.S... Passport,
2) He traveled with a British passport, or
3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.

Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S... State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008.


Your assesment is faulty. There was no travel ban to Pakistan for US citizens when Obama went. Many US citizens traveled there with US passports during that time. I posted the response in another thread but you can actually pull a copy of the US travel advisory for the time he went there. No ban.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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As much as it pains me to say, about.com calls this a hoax / chain email that started April 2009.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Sm0kinGuns


Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.




A question from a foreigner, doesnt the US admit double citizenship? because there a lot of countries where people can have various nationalities and passports, i know people in my country born here and with 3 or more passports because of their parents and grandparents, or naturalization in other countries without losing their birth ones.

BTW, i know people here with venezuelan citizenship and united states too, born here and others born there, several friends in fact and they can use the passport they choose.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Sm0kinGuns
 


One of the tells that indicates a nerve has been struck is the method the administration and the Obamanista's have deployed to discredit such information. Instead of addressing the issue, which should be easy enough, talking points have been issued. Not about his birthplace or citizenship, that's a discussion they don't want to have. Talking points about those who ask these questions. They've simply assigned a name, and call us crazy, which lets us know the president is most certainly born in Kenya. Remember, the claims could easily be shot down with facts and information, but instead we get a campaign to assail our sanity. To further complicate the issue, I'm sure that in deep levels of the government, there are those who know the president to be of foreign birth, yet cover up these facts because they fear it would create chaos. Good post, and welcome to the underworld of hidden fact and conspiracy. May these facts be brought into the light.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by MonteroReal
 


True, but to hold the office of president, one must be born in the United States. Nauralized citizens (such as Schwartznagger (excuse the spelling) are not eligible.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by MonteroReal
 


True, but to hold the office of president, one must be born in the United States. Nauralized citizens (such as Schwartznagger (excuse the spelling) are not eligible.


Yes, but that is not my question, maybe i didnt explain myself well, the question is why a Born-US Citizen cant have another citizenship and another passport?

I have friends born in the US, and they have venezuelan citizenship too, and both passport, does that mean they didnt born there? can they be president?

Cant Obama be born in the US and have another citizenship too because of their parents?



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by astrogolf
Not about his birthplace or citizenship, that's a discussion they don't want to have.


It is a discussion I want to have. I so very dearly would like to have. In fact, I have tried in about 20 other threads on the THIS SAME TOPIC. What do you have to discuss. I say he was born in Hawaii. Please persuade me to think something else.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


The website World Net Daily is an excellent resource for info about BO's documentation. Al of his records are sealed.
Obama persistently refuses to release any hidden records. He has many lawyers at a cost of millions to defend against all requests for his documentation.

Missing documentation for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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I have a quick question ... Sorry if it is off topic, but I have been curious.

Lets say for arguments sake, lets just say Obama is in fact not an American Citizen.

If Obama passes the Blanket Immunity for all illegals allowing them to stay and not be charged. Doesn't this wipe away his crime as well?

OK, I continue. Lets say after this is passed, it comes to light that he was never quailified to be POTUS and they move for immediate impeachment.

What is to stop them from using this whole ordeal to move for an Amendment to the Constitution to allow others, not natural born, to hold office. Thus, opening the door for Arnold or whomever else to step in.

Just a thought and I was curious.... Please don't flame me to badly..lol



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Starbug3MY_javascript:gvid()
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


The website World Net Daily is an excellent resource for info about BO's documentation.


Then you should have no problem providing this info, given your access to such a wonderful source.


Al of his records are sealed.


All his records? Even "Thriller?"

Please show me what records you have attempted to access and what steps were taken to deny you that access.


Obama persistently refuses to release any hidden records.


Such as...?


He has many lawyers at a cost of millions to defend against all requests for his documentation.




Show me how much money has been spent defending against requests for information, please. I need to see sources with legitimate breakdowns of dollar amounts and what they were spent on. Surely, you can provide this because otherwise you would just be making stuff up, right? I am sure you are not.



Missing documentation for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.


Please show me how you were denied access to any of these records.

Please show me the money spent on lawyers to keep you from any of these records.

Please explain what you think you will find out from kindergarten records or a thesis?

TRY USING FACTS.

When you use facts, you can back them up with real sources. You offered none of that.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by K J Gunderson]



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by iamlizzyb
I have a quick question ... Sorry if it is off topic, but I have been curious.

Lets say for arguments sake, lets just say Obama is in fact not an American Citizen.

If Obama passes the Blanket Immunity for all illegals allowing them to stay and not be charged. Doesn't this wipe away his crime as well?

OK, I continue. Lets say after this is passed, it comes to light that he was never quailified to be POTUS and they move for immediate impeachment.

What is to stop them from using this whole ordeal to move for an Amendment to the Constitution to allow others, not natural born, to hold office. Thus, opening the door for Arnold or whomever else to step in.

Just a thought and I was curious.... Please don't flame me to badly..lol


Blanket immunity and retroactive naturalization would still be miles apart. Hope that helps.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Recently, a documentary teamwww.youtube.com... retreived obama's Kenyan birth certificatewww.youtube.com... from a hospital in Mombasa, Kenya. There they have erected a shrine at his birthplace. He has many relatives there (grandmother, cousins etc.) who tell the story of his birth. It is common knowlege in mombasa (there was a recent post on this from a week or two back). But here's the pertinant question. The birth certificate they retreived from the hospital had biometric info (a footprint). This birth certificate was sworn into evidence in an existing lawsuit that challenges Obama's eligibility. Some of the parties to the lawsuit are very well known. You have to ask yourself why they would enter into evidence a document, that because it contains biometric info, would so easily be provable or disprovable, at the risk of perjury and subsequent imprisonment. Also, as the Hawaiin doc has proven to be a forgery, lacking the correct border and state seal, which factcheck.org later added and represented (that was brilliant) proves an effort to obscure truth. There is so much more on this, but I would simply point out the m.o. of this administration. Instead of disproving this allegation, which one would think a very simple task, they issued some simple talking points for the lower mignons, refusing to comment on the issue themselves. They've assigned a name (birthers) and involved (successfully) the media in assasinating the character of anyone who questions the issue. Think about when you were a kid, and in the course of an argument, you have not a leg to stand on, what do you do? Call names. And that's basically how this administration handles each issue. PR and name calling. Think about it. That's all I'm saying. And again, why wouldn't he come forward and just give his footprint if it were false. It would bring shame to those who brought the document forward and end the debate forever. He would look like he has been maliciously attacked and get a few points for sympathy. But he won't. And how did this ever become an issue? Where there's smoke, there's fire...sometimes. Isn't it worth a look? Why can't he produce a birth certificate. Because a forgery would land him in impeachment proceedings and perhaps prison.www.youtube.com...

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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for the love of god buy a freakin clue there are newspaper postings of his birth in Hawaii for one for two are you saying that he was a plant who was born else where and through massive manipulation of the voter system and hoping and praying I assume your suggesting Allah for decades that he would ascend to the Presidency of the United States get a #ing life



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Recently, a documentary teamwww.youtube.com... retreived obama's Kenyan birth certificatewww.youtube.com... from a hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.


Can you link me to this document or is the only evidence that it exists the footage in the video? The video is a little difficult to watch right now. Is this the same Kenyan birth certificate we have already seen debunked or is this a new one?


There they have erected a shrine at his birthplace.


I am sure that is quite a tourist draw. I charge a dollar to use my bathroom because George Washington took a leak here.


He has many relatives there (grandmother, cousins etc.) who tell the story of his birth.


Can you provide exact quotes, please?


It is common knowlege in mombasa (there was a recent post on this from a week or two back).

Common knowledge means little without proof. ATS is an excellent example of why "common knowledge" is hardly reliable anywhere.


But here's the pertinant question. The birth certificate they retreived from the hospital had biometric info (a footprint). This birth certificate was sworn into evidence in an existing lawsuit that challenges Obama's eligibility.


Which case?


Some of the parties to the lawsuit are very well known. You have to ask yourself why they would enter into evidence a document, that because it contains biometric info, would so easily be provable or disprovable, at the risk of perjury and subsequent imprisonment.


Then what was the outcome of this case then? You have to ask yourself why Orly Taitz would be warned of disbarment and charged and fined up the wazoo and STILL enter a courtroom with faulty evidence. The simple fact is that she does so I guess looking for rationality is not really going to prove anything. Please give some info on this case so we can see what did happen with that footprint.

It should be noted that a US birth certificate with a footprint on it is NOT consider a legal document.


Also, as the Hawaiin doc has proven to be a forgery, lacking the correct border and state seal, which factcheck.org later added and represented (that was brilliant) proves an effort to obscure truth.


When was this "proven?" I have seen no such proof. Can you provide it, please?


There is so much more on this, but I would simply point out the m.o. of this administration.


There are plenty of threads to talk about M.O.s in. This one is specifically about his citizenship so if there is so much more, please share.


Instead of disproving this allegation, which one would think a very simple task, they issued some simple talking points for the lower mignons, refusing to comment on the issue themselves.


Funny you should say that. Look at this thread. Look at all the birther threads. I notice a HUGE LACK in proof, evidence, links, backup, sources in any of the birther posts. A youtube home video is the best you have offered. What have you given aside from talking points? I do not mean to sound rude but look at this thread. Seriously look at it.

I see birthers tossing out the same old accusations as always but NO EVIDENCE of any of them. Do you not find that interesting?


They've assigned a name (birthers) and involved (successfully) the media in assasinating the character of anyone who questions the issue.


How would you like the group of people that believe Obama was born in Kenya to be referred to? What steps have you taken to make this happen so far?


Think about when you were a kid, and in the course of an argument, you have not a leg to stand on, what do you do? Call names.


I am fairly certain you did not know me when I was a kid. I am not sure why you think "birthers" is an insult anyway. Which part of it do you find insulting? Maybe if people like me understood why you find it offensive, we would be more understanding and adopt the new name you are going to provide.


And that's basically how this administration handles each issue. PR and name calling. Think about it. That's all I'm saying. And again, why wouldn't he come forward and just give his footprint if it were false.


LOL. Seriously? You want the president of the US to give you a footprint?

OK. Let's say I can get him to give me one. I will give it to you. Now what?


It would bring shame to those who brought the document forward and end the debate forever.


No it would not. We were told seeing his birth certificate would end it. We were told being shown it was authentic would end it. Nothing will end it but him leaving office for any reason.


He would look like he has been maliciously attacked and get a few points for sympathy.


He does not already? I thought you have been vilified by the media? Who sees you as a villain if not Obama sympathizers? Which is it?


But he won't. And how did this ever become an issue? Where there's smoke, there's fire...sometimes.


Arsonists do not only start fires in places investigators should be looking anyway. That is not how fire and smoke work. I have serious doubts about ATS poster Astrogolf's personal life. Poof, I just created some smoke.


Isn't it worth a look?


Sure. What do you want to look at?


Why can't he produce a birth certificate.


He has. You did not like it. You have not shown why though.


Because a forgery would land him in impeachment proceedings and perhaps prison.www.youtube.com...

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]

You are most certainly confused. You already claimed that the one he did release has been proven a forgery and now you say he will not produce one because if found to be forged, he would be in trouble? What?

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]

[edit on 29-6-2010 by astrogolf]



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by astrogolf
Also, as the Hawaiin doc has proven to be a forgery, lacking the correct border and state seal, which factcheck.org later added and represented (that was brilliant) proves an effort to obscure truth.


...and...


Why can't he produce a birth certificate. Because a forgery would land him in impeachment proceedings and perhaps prison.www.youtube.com...
]


...all in one breath. This is why you feel "birthers" is an insult. Because it is used to group people together who say things with this low level of logic involved. Please re-read what I have quoted here and explain to me what I am missing. It certainly looks to me like the only argument you actually have is because black is really white even though white cannot be black so it isn't.



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