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What are your thoughts about Children who drown during Baptisms?

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posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


i thought those two stories were the same stories, also. i opoligize whole heartedly for not being sorry about it, though. hope you can forgive me.

i merely provided a few links to such events, and i guess i was a little tired when i read over the one link with the bridge collapse.

having said all that, there are plenty of records on google for accidental drownings during baptisms. i don't really care for reading the details about such events all the time. and i authored this thread to vent some frustration of it even being brought up during a class discussion.

unfortunatly it would be hard to deny that such "Acts of God/Accidents" (choose one or the other/neither/both/:puz
have not happened to children being baptized in hundreds of countries around the world for ... (checking my watch)...

point is it has happened, at least once according to some sources.
i just wanted to see how fellow ATSers thought about the subject matter.

me? i think it is a roundabout loopholish conundrum, sprinkled with holy water & resulting in one dead baby.

like i said earlier....

god maybe the damnedest thing i have ever seen.

,
ET




posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by snowspirit
With all the corrupt, pediphiles in the church these days...


& Star!

sometimes i may have a sick sense of humor, but honestly:

corrupt pediphiles




posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 




i merely provided a few links to such events, and i guess i was a little tired when i read over the one link with the bridge collapse.

having said all that, there are plenty of records on google for accidental drownings during baptisms.


Plenty of records? Because all the ones you posted were bad and you left out importiant details, like the baptisim having nothing to do with it. Most of the reports of drowning at a baptimisim always have other very importiant factors involved which is why nobody goes to jail over it.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
So now you edit the OP so you can pretend you said something else?


damn straight
is right.

i was making a post. i have no idea how the OP got changed.

i
it.

and i'm out my way out the door, cause i got stuff to do. if i can edit it when i return i shall edit it, promise.

i think i still have it on a wordsheet.

Disclaimer:


zaiger is correct. the Opening Post has been unintentionally replaced by what was intended as a post.

all opologies,
ET




posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


so when you first wrote it you unintentionally put sources with quotes from the news articles? You unintentionally did not read the sources you were quoting?

edit to add: Nevermind BTS'd FTW

[edit on 29-6-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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HERE IS THE ORIGNINAL OPENING POST:

I CAN NO LONGER EDIT THE OP.

Anyone who thinks this is usual for my threads, feel free to review the hundreds of threads i've authored over the last 5 years on ATS.

Again, all opologies for my error to my fellow ATSers....



_________________________________________________________

What is your input? Is a child who drowns during baptism saved? Or is it a sign from God?
Or do you have another opinion about the subject matter?
Don’t worry, no arrests were reported.


An autopsy showed that the death of a baby girl 11 days after a baptism at Imani Temple on Capitol Hill was a drowning, and the case was ruled a homicide yesterday by the D.C. medical examiner.
No charges have been filed in the death of Sade Victoria Omotola, of Hyattsville, which was investigated by D.C. police. As used by the medical examiner, "homicide" is a technical term meaning death at the hands of another, and it does not necessarily mean a crime has occurred. Investigators involved in the case were unavailable for comment last night.
Source/link: www.encyclopedia.com...




Subject: Baby in critical condition after dippings at baptism.
To: All From: Marty Leipzig Date: 9/15/96 12:23:46
By Scott Bowles, Washington Post
Houston Chronicle, Sunday, Sept. 15, 1996
WASHINGTON - A 4-month-old girl was in critical condition Saturday night after nearly drowning during a baptism at a Northeast Washington church last weekend, officials said.
The girl, identified by church officials as Sade Victoria Momatola of Landover, Md., suffered brain damage after being dunked three times into a baptismal tub last Sunday morning at the Imani Temple, said police and church leaders.
More: Source: www.mosquitonet.com...




Mon 6 Sep 99 14:30
Steve Quarrella
Teen drowns during baptism
Teen Drowns in Baptismal Accident
HOUSTON Sep 06 -- A solemn religious ceremony ended in tragedy in Houston.
A pastor was baptizing a teenaged boy in a Houston river on Sunday when the boy slipped underwater and never resurfaced.
Divers found his body almost an hour later.
More / source: www.skeptictank.org...




This report is from The New York Times, 1985. Multiple drowning victims were reported:
query.nytimes.com...


So were these Baptisms a success in your opinion? Is a child who drowns during a Baptism saved?
Or do you have another opinion about the subject matter?

Are there any bible quotes that deal specifically with what happens to a child that drowns during a Baptism?
Has a sin been committed?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

End Transmission,
ET



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


so when you first wrote it you unintentionally put sources with quotes from the news articles? You unintentionally did not read the sources you were quoting?

edit to add: Nevermind BTS'd FTW

[edit on 29-6-2010 by zaiger]


no, sir. i googled "bably drowns during baptism" skimmed over the material and provided some links and quotes as proof that it has occurred in the past.

i offer you no viable excuse, other than i was a bit tired at the time and had a few things going on in my personal environment.

it was not my intention to mislead, i assure you, but just to offer some evidence that babies have drowned during baptisms.

i can see why you might be upset. and i'm still in befuddlement as to how i edited the OP instead of just posting, which was my intention.

also, if memory serves me right, the girls last names were not the same in the source links, and maybe not their addresses, too.

Admittingly, sometimes when reviewing material i don't care to read about i pay more attention to the first paragraphs, and then just the keywords of the material being presented. sorta a kin to speed readers techniques, and a character flaw that i might have.

again, it was not my attention to mislead, simply provide some measurable proof that this phenomenon of drowning babies during baptisms has occured and get some other peopes' opinions about their views on the subject, should they choose to share.

pleasentries,
ET



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher



HERE IS THE ORIGNINAL OPENING POST:

I CAN NO LONGER EDIT THE OP.

Anyone who thinks this is usual for my threads, feel free to review the hundreds of threads i've authored over the last 5 years on ATS.

Again, all opologies for my error to my fellow ATSers....






So were these Baptisms a success in your opinion?


No didn't you read it? they died.


Is a child who drowns during a Baptism saved?


No they were not saved if they were saved they would not be dead.



Or do you have another opinion about the subject matter?


Yeah according to the articles there were other major factors involved besides baptisim.



Are there any bible quotes that deal specifically with what happens to a child that drowns during a Baptism?


Bible says children do not have faith.



Has a sin been committed?


Maybe in the first two (which are the same story), the parents should have not done it or at least told the church that they were going to be dunking a 1 month old baby.
The rest are really just accidents the structures that people were standing on collapsed, the baptisim had nothing to do with it.



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


Zaiger,
you are a respected friend who keeps me on my toes!

one of the reasons i put you on my friends list because you take the time to read the material in detail, when sometimes i can not stomach to.
this subject matter is one such subjects.

i must concede that i have made percievable errors in this thread, and thank you Zaiger for helping keep me in line and protect the integrity and intent of ATS.

thank you,
ET



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Zaiger, concerning my error with the first two stories....

in my defense, their names, and where they were from were not the same, though other details do seem to tell us that this is the same story:


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
First link: Sade Victoria Omotola, of Hyattsville

Second link:Sade Victoria Momatola of Landover


so there. this
has a

now stop me up over it or i will revert to being a
...

or maybe not.

peace,
ET

(thanks Z)



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by snowspirit
With all the corrupt, pediphiles in the church these days...


& Star!

sometimes i may have a sick sense of humor, but honestly:

corrupt pediphiles



I guess they're already corrupt just being pediphiles.....although if they are also priests, that makes them even more corrupt.......corrupt corruption....



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Sorry i could have posted without being a jerk, nothin personal. You're still cool in my book



posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher



HERE IS THE ORIGNINAL OPENING POST:

I CAN NO LONGER EDIT THE OP.

Anyone who thinks this is usual for my threads, feel free to review the hundreds of threads i've authored over the last 5 years on ATS.

Again, all opologies for my error to my fellow ATSers....






Nine of these
would have been sufficient. i think it was the tenth one that hurt me a little.


Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Sorry i could have posted without being a jerk, nothin personal. You're still cool in my book


No worries. & you aren’t getting off my friends list that easily!
We all have some bad days and some bad posts, (except for me:lol
.
No matter your mood, your logic was sound, and like I said to you in the U2U I sent you, in my opinion you are still one of the better 50% of ATSers, I think. You were merely denying ignorance (in this case mine), and that is ok with me.

Friends & family do not permit friends & family to make the same repeated mistakes over & over without some level of intervention. It is a defining aspect of what friends & family are and do for eachother.

Thanks again Zaiger for your contributions,
ET



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 
Irrelevant question. A baptism doesn't save a person. It's just an outward sign to other believers that you identify with the death and resurrection of Christ. A person asks to be baptized after they believe.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


you may be correct in your interpretation, i can't prove your contribution to be a lie, and i can relate to your explanation.

thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, and i am sorry to all ATSers that the *original OP was accidently aultered.
for Original Post content Scroll up.


thanks again,
ET



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


you may be correct in your interpretation, i can't prove your contribution to be a lie, and i can relate to your explanation.

thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, and i am sorry to all ATSers that the *original OP was accidently aultered.
for Original Post content Scroll up.


thanks again,
ET
No worries. there is also scriptural references to back up the idea that God takes ALL children to heaven before the age of accountability. basically, He doesn't hold them accountable for their sins when they don't understand they are sinning against Him.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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First of all I think it is wrong to think a child needs to be baptised. Some children are scared to be dunked in the water, especially in front of a group of people with all eyes on them. They may not know to hold their breath or are unable to do so. Children who belong to religious fanatics that put them thru rituals and/or brainwashing can become very frightened if they do not want to go along with the protocol. This is abuse, plain and simple.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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Children are being murdered by criminals. I hate to say it but the State needs to regulate religion. People are getting hurt and all in the name of the Lord, God, Jezuz, Satan, etc.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by pikypiky
 

Please keep a sense of proportion.
The word "murder" ought to be reserved for death caused by deliberate intention.
These deaths were isolated events, and no-one has suggested that they were anything but accidental.




[edit on 2-7-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by crazydaisy
First of all I think it is wrong to think a child needs to be baptised. Some children are scared to be dunked in the water, especially in front of a group of people with all eyes on them. They may not know to hold their breath or are unable to do so. Children who belong to religious fanatics that put them thru rituals and/or brainwashing can become very frightened if they do not want to go along with the protocol. This is abuse, plain and simple.
Not to mention there is no Biblical basis for a child being baptized. Anytime anyone in the Bible is mentioned being baptized, first they are BELIEVERS. There are no instances of children being baptized whatsoever. When pastors/priests baptize children or infants they are baptizing non-believers.



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