'Dozens' of US citizens on assassination list, White House adviser hints

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Great Argument. However, if you feel my agreement to side by the decisions
of my U.S. Government in times of war concerning the decision to give the
green light to termination of "American Citizens" who are siding with the Enemy in time of war. (Who may be foreign fighters who happen to be holding U.S. passports) smug and childish.(I'll forgive your personal attack)I begin to wonder whose side your on.
Clearly this is a delicate discussion to proceed with when we both lack all the information and facts in the matter. We should both be careful with speculation.
In the meantime, I look forward to continuing this conversation, for even though I disagree with you, I do respect you intelligence. It has been food for thought.

Wildmanimal

Originally posted by wrathchild

 

Read the article...these targeted people are not exactly "model" citizens...

Read your history, friend.

They're coming for you too soon. And those left will decry your model citizen status too.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Yes it appears they were convicted of "Aiding and Abetting" by Jury.
We there is jurisprudence for you.

Whether you like it or not, the fact is, there had to be reasonable cause to
proceed. So even if it was a mistake, there was reasonable cause.
Search warrants were most certainly issued as well.

reply to post by azrael36


Being against globalization makes you a terrorist? Ha..ha. I am against the globalization and outsourcing that is going on. Another thing, what makes a country great is freedom, not diversity!

reply to post by Wildmanimal

Yes it appears they were convicted of "Aiding and Abetting" by Jury. We there is jurisprudence for you.

But, this is precisely my point, we can speak intelligently to what the Davidians were convicted of, and even then, in terms of American jurisprudence, those 8 convicted of aiding and abetting appealed their conviction, only to have one court add an extra 25 years on the conviction, it then went up the the Circuit of Appeals where that court upheld the additional prison sentence, and finally the SCOTUS agreed to hear the case and reversed that ruling, and subsequently in 2007 all 8 were released from prison. That is American jurisprudence. Assassinating American's is something else entirely.

Wonder if Obama and Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfield, Kissinger etc are on those lists?

Be funny if they were.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
hmmmmm

I wonder if I made the list ???
Any copies of the list I can check???

Haven't you made enough lists?

I don't want to sound like some crazy survivalist because I love AC as much as the next person. But I almost wish TPTB would make an aggressive move. It seems to me like we (american people) have lost a lot of our back bone that made this country great.

Sadly, this seems to mean that the time to unite and act was prior to 9/11. It means that the more we attempt to organize, the more ruthless they will get. We'll be shut down each step of the way, by force, threatened with death. It means the only hope that's really left is to leave the country or integrate into the machine.

I'm sorry but we're talking about the U.S. military might, and all of it's intelligence agencies against us as individuals. Does anyone actually believe they have a chance in hell? Seriously now. What chance have we? There's maybe one in a million of us who are capable of masterminding something that would not only be able to start a revolution, but also do so without being detected and offed. Are you willing to risk your life, dedicate all of your time and energy? Are you this patriotic and highly brilliant enough to pull it off?

I'm not. I'm merely bright enough to see that if this was going to be done correctly, it would have been so long ago. I'm starting to think it may be best to just keep quiet from now on, and lay low. Sorry, but that's the honest truth. We're all talk, but little to no action. What's the point of just talking, if it'll eventually get you assassinated by the government?

I'm not saying I'm going to forget what I know, but that I think perhaps it's best to not speak up this late in the game. Maybe it's best not to partake in the evil, but simply bear witness. What else can reasonably be expected these days?

Originally posted by azrael36
So just because the sympathy of these american citizens lie with that of the enemy. They are fit to be murdered? Because they are living in terrorististan and don't plan to come back stateside we can say screw their rights, murder them?

They're choosing to live in a war zone. And, in war, you target your enemies. Just because the people aiding the enemy happen to be American citizens doesn't mean they get special treatment.

In the history of warfare, have we had a trial and verdict prior to every bullet fired, bomb dripped and missile launched? Of course not.

Yes, war is basically murder on a large scale...but that's not something the United States invented recently.

Now, if they do come home, of course they can't be killed. They will have their full rights if they're on our soil or in our custody. But, again, you can't be in a war zone and expect there to be a protective bubble around you.

I have seen this touched upon but not given the weight it really deserves.
The statement is that American citizens are on a "extreme prejudice" list
and there are people on ATS defending it?

Ok if it is someone with not citizenship but holds an american visa that is one thing but a CITIZEN is afforded the right to a jury of peers no matter what circumstances or location their crimes were committed. That is it, period. If we let this go we are all fair game. It may come as a shock to some of you but to be a free nation we must afford the right of the citizen to all citizens no matter how distasteful that may be.Like watching a Nazi rally. Their words may well be crap in your ears but as a true patriot once said (paraphrased) we must defend to the death their right to speak. If we let this become an accepted and public policy we deserve the inescapable consequences of it's abuse.
I probably just made "the list" for that
N.

LOL... I'm loving the list jokes.

I can imagine every major contributor to ATS that's ever unveiled something to the rest of us about something that wasn't supposed to be paid attention to.

Luckily they don't know about our "Secret ATS Anti-Assasination Bunker". Oops! I've let it out the bag! QUICK! TO THE BUNKER!

Originally posted by ovenden
I wonder what would constitute working with terrorist groups?

On that note I wonder what constitutes a terrorist group for Obama?

This has been the most competent and thought provoking post thus far. As we have seen since Obama has taken office, the definition of what a terrorist is and who they are has grown a bit larger. This action taken only violates the sixth admendment, so no biggy right? This action makes a precedent that the US can and will go after who it deems as "terrorists" and out right kill them with absolutely NO prosecution before hand.

Granted, Im not advocating what these people are doing with the "terrorists". And, if they died in battle fighting against our own men then I definately wouldnt have any qualms about it what so ever. They are aiding and abetting enemies and of the state, but they must be tried as such.

It is highly dangerous when we start allowing the US Government to side step the Bill of Rights that this country was founded on. The first ten amendments were the reason as to why this country was founded in the first place. Please, go back and read the Declaration of Independence people. The reason why we came up with the Bill of Rights was to not have this ever again. By allowing something like this to take precedence then we will automatically indulge ourselves to be in a slippery slope of decay of our natural born rights as American citizens.

Regardless of how you feel about what these citizens are doing, we must follow the Constitution. By not doing so we fail ourselves and the country that we say we support.

I sure hope I'm on this list. My life has gotten so boring lately.

THese people are now enemy combatants. It's not like we're allowed to go and arrest them. Let me ask you this, there's an American that has committed himself to one of the AL Quaeda suicide squads. He's on a subway train car with a bomb. Your wife and kids are with you in the subway car. How much do you care about his rights when he's 5 seconds from killing your family?

I didn't read anything about assasanation from anyone other than the writer of that article. I saw capture or kill order. As opposed to "catch and release".

www.law.cornell.edu...

§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen;

(7)... committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.


SO it sounds legal if there is some sort of tribunal. FDR tried Americans via Military Tribunal. And hey if they don't show up for court...

The simple fact is that the assasination of an American abroad engaged in terrorist activities is no different than a sniper taking out an Al Quaeda member 1000 meters away hiding in a building.

But capture or kill does not constitute assasination. It just means deadly force is acceptable if the person can't be captured. An assasination involves no capture option.

So your government intends to kill citizens that have sided with the enemies of your nations. Why is this a problem? I'll tell you I am sure that there were probably some Americans and Britons killed by their governments for siding with the Nazis in World War II. Honestly it's what happens in times of war, several posters are right this is nothing new.

What is new and in my opinion actually refreshing is how President Obama is being so proactive in actually going after terrorist organizations and not invading nations that had nothing to do with 9-11. That's a nice change of pace over President W. Bush!

Honestly this is the kind of war that your country should have started fighting as soon as the World Trade Center fell, not now 9 years later.

Originally posted by wrathchild
reply to post by harp sounds

 

Read the article...these targeted people are not exactly "model" citizens...

living outside the country..likely not of "American" decent.

they are actively working with terrorists groups who are not hiding their intent.

How do expect your country to defend itself?????....its not likely they will bring these criminals to trial back in th U.S.

Not likely they will have a police force near them that will bring them to justice.

Treating them like an enemy of the state ..just like any other insurgent or terrorist would be the prudent course of action.

These people are not "pete and mary Smith" from Tampa .....

You are making a string of assumptions based on how your "gut" tells you government will act in this situation.

These lists are secret, the determination of who is placed on those lists is also. . Secret. The chain of accountability in determining who is placed on those lists is secret. . This is not how people have been convicted of treason and sedition in the past and to compare this to how things have been run in the prior is misleading as there is no precedence for this behavior.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Actually, Thomas Jefferson shot a man for treason on the white house lawn.

The United States rule of law states that a US citizen suspected of a crime must be prosecuted and judged by a jury of his peers before any sentencing. That goes to anything from theft to treason. You simply cannot assassinate US citizens, regardless of where they are in the world and who they are affiliated with.

Now, the question is, were they still CURRENTLY US citizens when they were assassinated?

Originally posted by unityemissions
Maybe it's best not to partake in the evil, but simply bear witness. What else can reasonably be expected these days?

Evil flourishes because good men do nothing to stop it.

As long as we have a pretense of democracy, it is not game over.

The more we stand aside and allow the outright and obvious erosion of the Constitution, democracy, and the rule of law by these people the worse it will get. They are testing our apathy by pushing further and further.

Your suggestion as a cure for this is to give them more apathy? That out of fear for ending up on some list we should cower back and hope they dont come looking for us at some point?

There is safety in numbers. The real cure is to stand up as a collective and say "No! No further!" And then slowly go about the business of returning our society to something that serves us, not sociopaths. You are not safe standing back in the shadows hoping they dont see you while they begin to select this group and that group as targets. You will eventually become visible when there is no one left BUT you, and by then, there will no chance of using our numbers in our favor.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

en.wikipedia.org...

This is every bit as applicable today as it was then.