Illegal Immigrants : Let’s Try Something Different ?

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Those folks? I've no more use for them than you do. ...and I know plenty of that sort who are citizens....

Whether my notion is workable or not, I don't know. I really haven't thought it through all the way...just yet. But I do think it's worthy of a look see. I think we'd be pleasantly surprised at the response. Most people want to be productive members of society, and will try hard to be so...

Not all, obviously...but most. The minority? That's a manageable number, certainly less than 20 million.

Here's an even better idea:

Let's focus on the source of the problem; the employers, (many of whom are corporate), who are providing incentives for the illegal workers, often hiring under the table and at third-world wages. This is what is driving the immigration problem. These same corporate entities are funding tea parties and other immigrant protest groups.

Why?

Because it serves them to have the rage directed toward the illegal immigrants and not toward those profiting off of their cheap labor. The irony here is those that are stoking the fires of "patriotism" are the ones acting the most unpatriotic. The greed and hypocrisy is sickening.

This is the real conspiracy here. .

[edit on 6/28/2010 by clay2 baraka]

Ok here's part of the problem for me as well. I live, well "lived" in a fairly nice quiet apartment complex. We've had a large number of new folks move in recently. A latino construction crew from texas. I have no idea if they are or are not here legally. I'm not immigration so its not my business to ask about their residency status. I just walked to the convenience store a few blocks up from where I live. As I was walking through the parking lot there's loud blaring "mexican polka" music going. I love music of all types. I especially like world music. What I don't appreciate is being bombarded with it for simply stepping out of my house. I dont care if its rock, rap, country or any other kind of music for that matter. There's 20 guys gathered around various trucks in the parking lot. It rained a couple times this past weekend so I'm assuming there was no work for them today. All of them out there drinking. There was a litter of beer cans all over the various "grass islands" that seperate the parking areas. I didn't count the individual number of cans but I would guess there's at least 4 cases worth of empty cans lying around. A couple of the guys were urinating on some tires. In full view of the childrens playground, where the children are out playing since it is summer. If you want to come here and try to better yourself or your family how about acting like it? Why be disrespectful of the area you're living in?

Mod Note: Do not overwrite staff edits. Thank you.

[edit on 6/28/2010 by AshleyD]

...and what would you suggest be done?

The quote you posted was being used, IMHO, somewhat facetiously by the OP.

reply to post by azrael36



The numbers seem trivial almost, but here's what we're dealing with... The immigrants of today aren't the immigrants of the past. Throughout history travelers came to this Country to assimilate and build on infrastructure. There was no welfare. Today, we're being siphoned off of. Resources such as classrooms and hospitals which amount to the tax dollars our citizens pony up. I'll debate with the you on the chances of someone becoming American from across the border... In fact, it's turning into the opposite. "Viva la Mexico." The bitter taste of the La Raza movement:




Sounds great and all until you realize we're unable to sustain the higher birth rates, law enforcement, and civil services required to maintain a decent standard of living for the folks who define themselves as American.


This is the equivalent of piling on thousands of people to a life raft with an occupancy load of six. To get the point across more eloquently please watch:






Overkill on gum, if you ask me...


[edit on 28-6-2010 by Americanist]

reply to post by Americanist


Eye-opening videos to be sure but here's the scary part. He was only showing charts about legal immigration. The illegal numbers could be several times the legal and where does that make his charts go? The ceiling I suppose. We are running out of time fast on this too.
I DO realize that illegal immigrants are people too, I have no hate of their ethnicity but the lifeboat metaphor is unfortunately true. To NOT act decisively at this stage is to commit national suicide, nothing less.

reply to post by Americanist


You're preaching to the choir on this one I'm of the mind that all illegal immigrants need to be deported. I'm a heinz-57 and my various ancestors had to immigrate here legally. My grandfather was german born in 1901. He immigrated after WWII. He assimilated and learned the language and customs. He never spoke german in public. In fact he would only speak in his native tongue on christmas eve singing christmas carols. I asked him why, he said because he was now an American and proud to be. My grandmother immigrated from ireland. My other grandfather immigrated from france. My other grandmother was seminole. Did they love the countries they came from? Absolutely. Were they proud of their heritage, absolutely. Though my german grandfather carried a great burden from what he experienced during his life in germany. But they all came here to be Americans. Not german-american, irish-american, french-american etc. They came to be a part of what this country represented. America home of the free, land of the brave...

Originally posted by seagull
...and what would you suggest be done?

The quote you posted was being used, IMHO, somewhat facetiously by the OP.

Me? I'd start by sweeping immigration reform off the table and imposing harsh penalties on any company that hires illegals, and making it unprofitable to hire illegals. I would make stronger penalties for law enforcement at all levels that do not enforce the laws we already have in place regarding those that are not citizens, that are here illegally.

Anyone that can be proven to not be a legal citizen is gone, no questions, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. If you want to be with your family, tell us where they are and we will deport all of you as a family. As an illegal if you commit a crime and do damage to someone else's property? Your stuff is now either sold or given to the person who you hurt up to the value of the damage, and you are deported.

No jail cells for you and ICE, once able to be proven to be here illegally you are given 24 hours to prove citizenship, if it cannot be proven or reasonable excuse for needing more time is not met, you get sent down to Mexico with the shirt on your back.

You do not get Myranda rights, you do not get the right to an attorney, you get enough food to survive and a cell big enough to sleep in. You are not a citizen of this country, and you do not get to enjoy any of the rights of a citizen.

As to legal immigration, you get a mark against you an added to a database if you are found within the US illegally, and you have a 0% chance of legal immigration. Fingerprints, retana, and tongue scans are taken and added to the database once proven to be here illegaly.
(Any legal us citizen is exempt from such screening.)

As to the border and all that it is, the solution is not to use drones.

We start by attacking the source of income for those that are profiting off the border. We legalize drugs and stop the phony drug war. Pot grown here legally means that there is no reason to smuggle it across the border, meaning that the drug lords lose power.




We then put up a double chainlink/razorwire fence with electric detection on the fence itself. Security cameras with high zoom and motion detection along the entire line. Those found within the buffer zone between fences are arrested and deported, if they try to flee back into Mexico we can do nothing unless we arrest them on our side. Those found breaking through our side of the buffer zone are shot unless they surrender, and treated as enemy combatants. (they are a threat to national security)

We deploy the national guard of the states involved to the border and raid the hideouts on our side of the border, including the use of air and heavy armor to weed the cartel hideouts out. National guard will be a temporary police force on the border until the entire fence is built, then, its up to the states to decide how to go about enforcing the border patrol.

Federal government takes money out of it's military budget and issues it to states to use for the sole purpose of policing it's border.


Those caught trafficking across the border get an instant 10 years if US citizen, those caught helping get an instant 5 years.
What good is sending this skum to prison for life? What happens to innocent people get are in the wrong place at the wrong time? A few years, vs a life ruined.

reply to post by Happyfeet


Alright, maybe "founded" wasn't the correct word.

America was BUILT with a lot of hard work from immigrants.

reply to post by azrael36


It would be a wonderful thing to have all immigration stories turn out the same...


reply to post by Asktheanimals


The solution is to quit running away from the problem. Mexico needs to become a home to its citizens again… Not a place to escape. There’s enough corruption to go around the World several times over. That doesn’t mean you can’t fight the good fight.

I’d say it’s time to take the bull by the horns, if I happened to be Mexican.

I have helped illegal co-workers with their english. I have helped them study for their test to become legal. Now I must say that there were more illegals who had no desire to become legal than their were the ones who did.

Most of the women got here with stolen identities and false documents or anchor babies and proceeded to have a few more. They lied about the boyfriends who lived with them (and made good money) so it looked like they had one income instead of two. They got cheap housing, food stamps free medical...while many of our citzens make barely 3.00 over the poverty line and get denied help. these things I resent.

Also...with millions of unemployed people, there just arn't enough jobs. Many states, my own included, have tried to pass laws that would hold companies accountable for hiring illegals and were shot down.


So many hispanics do not want to speak english. We now have many employers who require that you are bilingual to even get a factory job. No one in America should have to speak a foreign language to get a job in a friggin factory.

So even though I have offered my help to those who needed and wanted it, bottom line is that we are living in different times. This is no longer the land of opportunity. Most of our jobs are out-sourced to other countries. With the increase of illegals came the lowering of wages, lost jobs for the American citizens who could not work for less than minumum wage. Many illegals get paid under the table, live with different families in the same apartment and recieve free medical etc. They can afford to work for lower wages.

I have some Native American Indians in my ancestory, and the ones who were'nt indians, came here legally. Thing is, there arn't enough jobs anymore. We cannot afford to continue allowing so many immigrants.

You wanna help them? Knock yourself out. Pay for it out of your pocket, do it on your time. WHen you got to the hospital, let one of them go before you, then pay their bill. Offer to learn Spanish so you can assimilate with their culture. But see that's the thing, like the old mexican proverb goes, you can;t just feed 1 bean, you got to feed the whole burrito.

Unemployment problem? Deport all illegals, jobs galore!

Rising entitlement/welfare costs? Deport all illegals, watch that money flow in!

Crime problems? Deport all illegals and enforce immigrations laws and watch our prisons empty out and crime go down!

Low wages for entry level work? Fire all illegals and watch those wages come up!

On the flipside, yuppie suburbanites will pay more for their "help".
Big business' will have to pay living wages and *gasp* their profits might take a hit.
Politicians might actually have to win elections based on merit and not pandering to desperate minorities.
Would be illegals might actually have to do something in their own countries to improve their situations and instead of running and sucking up resources here.

Immigrants that want to come here and make an honest living and contribute to our society go through the proper channels and do it legit.

Immigrants that want a free ride on someone elses dime come here illegally and should eb treated like criminals.

Alien defined:

Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.


Many are not here because they want to become U.S. citizens.
Many consider themselves to be part of a "Brown Revolution" called reconquista. They're not here to share, but to re-conquer the land from the U.S.

I have no problem with naturalized legal immigrants so long as it does not inundate American workers or wages. I do not appreciate our govt's lase-fare attitude towards a full scale invasion.






[edit on 28-6-2010 by zzombie]

II again? I thought this was so last week. You know? The II problem coming from Mexico? Can't stop that mess so you make Canadian citizens that have been to the States MANY times get a passport. WHAT?

Hey, they're doing something. Can they do something right though?

reply to post by elevatedone

So America was founded by illegal immigrants, looking for something better, right?

No. We were founded by an exploration expedition, which lead to a rebellion due mainly to distance between the colonies and the Kingdom. We are not "illegal immigrants" because we actually fought and conquered the land.. It'd be entirely different if Mexico engaged us in war and conquered our territory.. They would be taking it in a legitimate fashion.

After the colonies immigration records are extensive.. especially after America was founded, you can still read those records today.

Sayin we are a country of "illegal immigrants" is incredibly ignorant.. it's apples and oranges.

We’re supposed to be a world leader, super power if you will.

We are not supposed to be anything, we just happened to become one by chance and scheming. It was not our destiny to rule the World.. we were forced into the situation. And today there is nothing that says, commands or demands that we police the World, or care for anyone but ourselves!

We’re supposed to Help, be there for others, aren’t we?

Again, we are not Supposed to do ANYTHING.. we can if we want, and we can hurt if we want. There is nothing that says we "must" do anything.

Isn’t this what America was founded on?

It was founded on the principle that GOVERNMENT shouldn't force anything on anyone.. that we should take care of ourselves and forge our own destiny.

By that I mean, shouldn’t we be trying to help the illegal immigrants?

No? They should follow OUR laws.

This might sound like I’m crazy

No, it sounds like a typical bleeding heart Progressive idea.

would it work?

No. Most illegals prefer Spanish to English, and not all want to be Americans, many just want to work here. On top of that, you cannot apply for American citizenship while living in the country illegally.



It's not our job to help every poor soul on this planet.. it's not our job to police them, to protect anyone, to feed anyone or provide any kind of financial assistance. It's our job to look after ourselves. TAKE A LOOK AT OUR COUNTRY. We have cities riddled with poverty. High crime. A piss poor education system. A corrupt healthcare system. Why the bloody hell should we be wasting our resources helping every fool trying to run across our border when we can't even take care of ourselves?

Put em all on a train, send em home. They don't deserve our country if they can't respect our laws. They don't deserve our help and charity while holding us in contempt. And the World sure as hell doesn't deserve the assistance of this country, we should withdraw ALL assistance to everyone, bring our troops home, close our bases, and tell the World to get on without us. Not our responsibility to nanny people, especially when we are not respected for our efforts to begin with.

reply to post by Night Star


I'm going to go ahead and call BS on your entire post. I'm beginning to see a pattern in your posts. Why would an illegal not want help to become a citizen? That's just a load of crap.

I have helped illegal co-workers with their english. I have helped them study for their test to become legal. Now I must say that there were more illegals who had no desire to become legal than their were the ones who did.

I seriously don't believe you. But it's easy to make up stories on the interwebz to get one's point across.

Most of the women got here with stolen identities and false documents or anchor babies and proceeded to have a few more. They lied about the boyfriends who lived with them (and made good money) so it looked like they had one income instead of two. They got cheap housing, food stamps free medical...while many of our citzens make barely 3.00 over the poverty line and get denied help. these things I resent.

I resent you stating "most women" as if God himself handed you down these "facts." You also speak of them as if their sluts and their babies are objects. I consider the term "anchor baby" quite derogatory. It amazes me that someone that considers herself very charitable resorts to using stereotypes.

So many hispanics do not want to speak english. We now have many employers who require that you are bilingual to even get a factory job. No one in America should have to speak a foreign language to get a job in a friggin factory.

This is your opinion again. You don't show facts. But it would not hurt Americans to learn a second language. Why not? I consider it good education. Also so many Americans continue to write English with a lower case 'e.' We're not all perfect right?

So even though I have offered my help to those who needed and wanted it, bottom line is that we are living in different times. This is no longer the land of opportunity. Most of our jobs are out-sourced to other countries. With the increase of illegals came the lowering of wages, lost jobs for the American citizens who could not work for less than minimum wage. Many illegals get paid under the table, live with different families in the same apartment and receive free medical etc. They can afford to work for lower wages.

I've never understood how "illegals take advantage of the system and Americans who deserve it just go home and mope." I don't buy this at all. The truth is both illegals and American citizens take advantage of the system. And there are more citizens than illegals.

I have some Native American Indians in my ancestry, and the ones who were'nt indians, came here legally. Thing is, there aren't enough jobs anymore. We cannot afford to continue allowing so many immigrants.

This is the worst part of it all. "There aren't any more jobs, lets close up shop and move on." This defeatist mentality is whats hurting America.

It's not our job to help every poor soul on this planet.. it's not our job to police them, to protect anyone, to feed anyone or provide any kind of financial assistance. It's our job to look after ourselves. TAKE A LOOK AT OUR COUNTRY. We have cities riddled with poverty. High crime. A piss poor education system. A corrupt healthcare system. Why the bloody hell should we be wasting our resources helping every fool trying to run across our border when we can't even take care of ourselves? Put em all on a train, send em home. They don't deserve our country if they can't respect our laws. They don't deserve our help and charity while holding us in contempt. And the World sure as hell doesn't deserve the assistance of this country, we should withdraw ALL assistance to everyone, bring our troops home, close our bases, and tell the World to get on without us. Not our responsibility to nanny people, especially when we are not respected for our efforts to begin with.

Wait first you say that this country is basically shi* and then you say the rest of the world doesn't deserve this country? Which is it?



[edit on 6/28/2010 by 3vilscript]

reply to post by 3vilscript

Why would an illegal not want help to become a citizen? That's just a load of crap.

Many come here for jobs, especially younger ones. They send money back home to their families, or save it for themselves, then go back home and use the US Dollars to live a much better life. I've worked with Mexicans that lived like rats, but back home lived on farms with acreage and had new cars, their families lived quite nicely. I'm tellin ye we would all be better off saving for a few years and moving to Mexico. I know I won't be retiring in America, I'll move someplace poor and live like a King. A lesson I learned from Mexicans.

reply to post by 3vilscript


Fix your quotations.

Wait first you say that this country is basically shi* and then you say the rest of the world doesn't deserve this country? Which is it?

This country is not crap, but it has it's problems, and they are big problems. And no, illegals don't deserve what we give them, which despite our problems is considerable amount, especially compared to where they come from.

reply to post by PayMeh

No matter how close we are to the abyss, countries like Mexico paint the US as a utopia. This is the reason that a majority of the population from countries like that wish to immigrate to here.

Do they really paint it as utopia or do we Americans sell it to the world as the American Dream and the best place anyone can live?



reply to post by Asktheanimals


Seems a lot of cities are having trouble staying afloat. Is it really due to illegals or just bad economy?

(June 23, 2010 -- Maywood, CA) The City of Maywood is developing an innovative strategy to continue to provide residents quality and uninterrupted public services. As such, the City of Maywood will contract out all of its municipal services to help offset its costs associated with the recent loss of its insurance and workers compensation as well as shrinking grants and funding from both the state and the federal government.

www.cityofmaywood.com...




reply to post by mblahnikluver


Your placing your blame and rage on the wrong people. Do Spanish people give themselves the minority status and benefits you say they receive?

How do you know they don't try to learn English? You try to lump them all into one based on a few bad experiences you have had.

Furthermore, if you are losing jobs to those who speak English, then maybe you ought to start questioning the business who is hiring them. In some cases, they have legit reason to do so, but in other cases, they may not.

Well when it comes to school and jobs again citizens should be given this opportunity first. I have to struggle to get money for school because I can't check any of those oh so wonderful options that get me more money for being a minority such as Spanish. I am also tired of losing jobs to those who speak Spanish. Sorry but this is America we speak English, why should I have to learn another language to get a job when they don't even try to learn English?

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Rage is exactly what is happening. Nobody cares about solutions or compromises. Nobody cares that our government has all the answers but yet never does anything but point the finger.

If you think about, pointing the finger is our politicians specialty.

Because it serves them to have the rage directed toward the illegal immigrants and not toward those profiting off of their cheap labor. The irony here is those that are stoking the fires of "patriotism" are the ones acting the most unpatriotic. The greed and hypocrisy is sickening

Seriously folks, the matter has to be addressed. How many more threads about illegal immigration does it take to continue to rehatch the same old thing

Many of US want the SW border secured. BUT If anything this is the most secure our border has ever been. Just about every law enforcement in the area is on full alert not to mention all the other government officials in the area. Border patrol, ATF, DEA, FBI, etc...

What is your definition of secure and is it really attainable?

Is a border secure only when no one crosses illegally and when no contraband slips through?

If some permeability is acceptable, what is the tolerable amount?

Political leaders mostly dodge those questions, and for good reason: Anyone with a minimal knowledge or understanding about the nearly 2,000-mile swath of land between Mexico and the United States realizes that requiring a secure border establishes an impossible standard.

One reason: There is no way to conclude success because authorities have no idea how many undocumented immigrants are getting through. Authorities can count only the number of unauthorized intruders captured. Such unavoidable uncertainty prevents any absolute assurances that no one is sneaking over, making declarations of victory impossible.

Another reason: The motivation and creativity of those trying to get across

www.azcentral.com...


Some of you want landmines and shooting galleries set up. Is this really a solution? Does this not violate international and possibly US laws?

Many want the Mexican government to do more on its side. Honestly, do you really think that a government many of you(me too) claim as corrupt, is really capable of fixing the problem?

The only one who can fix the problem is our government. I get sick and tired of hearing all this deport illegals, bash illegals, slam illegals talk. Mainly because it is nothing more than trash talk. This problem didn't start overnight and there wasn't no serious attention on this issue until lately.

Where was all this anger when the first million came, second million, third million, fourth million, etc...?

Many of you seem to forget that

Illegals didn't rack up a debt of 13 trillion dollars.

Illegals didn't write the welfare laws.

Illegals don't protect the border.

Illegals didn't promise a fence and better security.

Illegals don't place "Se Habla Espanol" in the yellow pages or store front windows.

Illegals didn't start the war on drugs that has led to bloodshed on the border.

Illegals don't issue Visas so one can overstay and become illegal.

Illegals don't print government material in different languages.

Illegals don't vote in politicians time and time again who promised to fix the immigration issue but never do.

Illegals don't set their phones up saying press 1 for English.

I know many of you have given up trying to get our government to do its job. Many feel it is useless and a waste of energy.

Maybe this is the way they want you to feel.

As long as people continue to blame the illegals, you will see little action from Congress. If you want the border secure and immigration taken care of then you better start pressuring Congress 24/7.

Simply typing on ATS and doing opinion polls isn't going to get the job done.