It's YOUR Job To Raise Your Children, Not Society's..

Hello ATS,

I'm writting this thread because I'm really fed up of people censoring other people's beliefs, behaviour an thoughts based on the moral fabric of society.

I hear this argument constantly, twice today on the boards.

" Well how do I explain things like homosexuality and Lady Gaga to my children? Why do I have to have a conversation with my children and educate them about difficult topics?"

You see where I'm going with this?

It's not society's job to raise children collectively. It's YOUR job as a parent. The one huge reason that our youth are so screwed up and that "moral" fabric of our society is being stripped away, is because YOU failed as a parent.

Yes, collectively we've been crappy parents for a few decades now. So we need to find a scape goat don't we? So we use icons in popular culture such as Madonna or Lady Gaga.

We blame the gays for promoting sexuality at far too young an age when really it was the internet porn who did it, because momy and daddy were too busy watching "survivor" to give a crap.

We blame politicians for lying to us and giving our children all this debt when it really was OUR fault for allowing things to get so bad. It was OUR fault for not taking the lessons of our parents and applying them to our generation.

Our kids are just a product of the environmen that we created and that we sustain on a daily basis by blaming our problems on everything else but ourselves.

So do us ALL a favor, all you parents out there, start taking responsibility for your children, start educating them about the things that matter in life, start spending as much time with them as you SHOULD.

You'll soon realize that all these little problems you have with them, will melt away and they will be incredible members of society who will help the world move forward, instead of encouraging the status quo that we do.

Thoughts?

~Keeper

Although I agree with your argument to a certain degree, parents need to be responsible for the upbringing of their children, but I also believe society and the community, should take a responsibility for all the children within that society. we should want all the kids to grow up with good values and morals and to be well educated

The kids turn into adults and the potential criminals, murderers that society will have to deal with. If we ensure as a society and community that everyone takes responsibility for the kids, even those who dont have kids like myself, then surely that should make for a better society all round.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
. we should want all the kids to grow up with good values and morals and to be well educated

Who dictates what those "good values" and morals are?

jesus freaks?

retarded leftists?

They are destroying children shortly after they exit the womb, filling the mind with their own thoughts and desires, molding the supreme hope that is a newborn child, into yet another drone. Either contorting their mind with infinite useless information or outright killing them with ghz cell phone waves.

Our only hope is to get the children as angry as the adults.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Although I agree with your argument to a certain degree, parents need to be responsible for the upbringing of their children, but I also believe society and the community, should take a responsibility for all the children within that society. we should want all the kids to grow up with good values and morals and to be well educated

The kids turn into adults and the potential criminals, murderers that society will have to deal with. If we ensure as a society and community that everyone takes responsibility for the kids, even those who dont have kids like myself, then surely that should make for a better society all round.

In a perfect society, I agree.

We should have all adults looking around for the benefit of children, but it should not limit our freedoms as a society when it comes to speech, thought, ideals or values.

It's a difficult thing for a society which is comprised of thousands or millions of different view points to raise a "stable" child.

That's why I put the responsibility soley on parents as they have the greatest sphere of influence in a child's life.

~Keeper

Double post..



[edit on 6/28/2010 by tothetenthpower]

I agree, but only to a certain degree.

Once a child goes to school, a child spends at least halve of its day outside of any parents view.

These days families require both parents to work, leaving their kids even more hours out of their view.

The points next to this. I'm in full agreement.

I think a combination of both influence how someone turns out. They say your peers are the biggest influence on you, more than your family, look that up it's a well accepted theory.

Personally I think that when you become an adult you are fully responsible for your actions, if you are a horrible person by nature you will continue to be so irrespective of your upbringing. There are plenty of nice people who come from 'broken' homes, and bad or absent parents.

I know people with great parents, but who are truly awful people, and they have been given every opportunity in life. I'm talking proper manipulative socio-paths who use and abuse people as they please. If their parents knew how they really were they would either not believe it, or they would be horrified.

There is an old Irish saying 'you leave your fiddle at the door' this means the person you are when you come home, is not the same person you would meet on the outside.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


you can take it a step further.. if you want to talk energy, quantum speak. children are not just a product of their environment. they are an energetic mirror or match to their environment. we all are and kids are no exception. that is why kids are more lost than ever. hell that is why adults are more lost than ever. it is the same. because energetically speaking we are and our entire planet is more energetically imbalanced than ever before. this is why kids are more obese than ever. sicker than ever. things like ADD and autism exist among children more than ever. on more medication than ever. it is all an energetic imbalance. mirroring the world that we live in.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
I agree, but only to a certain degree.

Once a child goes to school, a child spends at least halve of its day outside of any parents view.

These days families require both parents to work, leaving their kids even more hours out of their view.

Yeah, I can see your point, it is difficult more so than it was 30 years ago to raise children. There are far more varied spheres of influence.

But at the same time, if we are aware of these facts, should this not make parents MORE vigilant about their parenting?

~Keeper

Originally posted by nltkn
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

you can take it a step further.. if you want to talk energy, quantum speak. children are not just a product of their environment. they are an energetic mirror or match to their environment. we all are and kids are no exception. that is why kids are more lost than ever. hell that is why adults are more lost than ever. it is the same. because energetically speaking we are and our entire planet is more energetically imbalanced than ever before. this is why kids are more obese than ever. sicker than ever. things like ADD and autism exist among children more than ever. on more medication than ever. it is all an energetic imbalance. mirroring the world that we live in.

yea everything resembles the whole, the actions of the whole are felt throughout the strata of sizes. The largest imposes upon the smallest. The universe is planning something interesting maybe?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Yes, I think it does.

There is just one problem, or many actually.

Being a parent is like learning to ride a bike. you learn from the moments you screwed up.
Edit : The learning moment may in fact come after years when you finally understand what you did to screw up so many years ago.[/edit]
As young as parents sometimes are they are even still falling and getting up, in their way to adult hood.

You could argue for some sort of diploma or something but then society kicks.
You can not , as a parent prohibit everything. Children like to cross anything that says "boundary do not cross".
Even when they are being as perfect as a parent can get, they still loose site of their kids halve of the time and when they get older even halve of what is left. Time stolen from them in a period a child likes to experiment and stuff, wrong friends, idiot neighbors, evil doctrine lurking around each corner like gangs, weed, alcohol, racism, porn, religions you do not agree with.

I think even with the best moral and education, it is more or less a game of chance.
There are however lots of ways a parent can do better, yet not a single way works for just any child. Then the question comes up, who decides what's best.

I think this is the most difficult problem in the world today.



[edit on 6/28/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Agreed.

Yes I agree that parenting has a wicked learning curve and yes you do learn from your mistakes, however you must be willing to admit you make mistakes and have somewhat messed up your child in order to help.

I know, I'm raising 4 of them, the two older ones got the not so great parenting while the two youngest are living the life my friend lol.

It is the most difficult thing to do, and I'm not an overprotective, or very strict parent. I allow them every opportunity to grow and make mistakes so they can learn how to do deal with the world.

The difference between me and the parents I describe? I know when things are going badly and "coach" them through the rough patches. I'm involved on EVERY level of my children's lives, not too much to be considered over protective, but I really worked hard to instill an open door policy in our house.

It's worked out great, the children keep nothing from us, at least nothing that really matters from a parenting perspective. You can be the best parent in the world and your kids grow up to be crappy individuals, that happens.

My point is that we should be doing everything we can to prevent such things from occuring by being actively involved.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think you are definitely right about that.

Unfortunately many parents can't wait to drop their kids of at a nanny or their parents, which are imo the two best options.

How can you make a parent, be a parent ?

You know that little saying "it takes a whole village to raise a child"?

I cringe everytime I hear it.

Says who? The people who can't raise their own children, and are trying to find others to share the responsibility (or blame,) as the case may be?

I don't think this is meant to include schools, doctors, coaches, etc.

That's a given in our society.

Edit: I removed some of this, because I probably said too much, and it couldn be mistaken for something it wasn't intended to be.

So I'll just say, I am completely in favor of parental responsibility.

[edit on 6/28/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

As the father of a two year old, I can definately say the last two years have been very challenging but very rewarding. I never knew the work that was involved in raising a child. I spend every available bit of time I have with my little girl, and I can honestly say it is the happiest time of my life.

I have family members that look for reasons to dump their children off. All I can say is I feel sorry for them. The time with your children is short and every minute away from them can never be brought back.

Children often mimic their piers, so if a parent sits around all day eating junk food and watching T.V., then the child will probably fall into those bad habits. We try to spend as much time outside with our child and try to be active and find constructive things to do inside. This is where our society is failing our children. Our society is lazy and self loathing. Children today are like a new puppy to people. They see a baby and they are aw struck at how cute they are, have a child, and then when it comes time to raise and take care of the child, then the new wears off and the child is left to suffer by neglect. I see this happening by friends and family all the time.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
You know that little saying "it takes a whole village to raise a child"?

I cringe everytime I hear it.

Says who? The people who can't raise their own children, and are trying to find others to share the responsibility (or blame,) as the case may be?

I don't think this is meant to include schools, doctors, coaches, etc.

That's a given in our society.

But it's the failed parents who seem to be the first to recite this little
platitude. I mean, your child got hit by a car and your neighbor was outside cutting the grass and he didn't do anything?

Excuse me?

There's a huge difference between parenting and being a responsible adult in a situation such as above.

I would not only expect the guy mowing his lawn to go help if a child got hit by a car, I would expect him to help if I got hit by car.

I agree that a lot of "failed" parents attempt to pin the blame on society or imaginary outside forces that don't exist.

Like that women years ago who tried to sue Mcdonald's for making her son fat.

The judge simply asked her if anybody had forced her to bring her child to Mcdonalds every day of the week.

She said no. Case dismissed.

~Keeper

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Although I do understand and agree what you just said, I think this goes deeper into the problem.

What you say is more like the obvious. At least I hope many people agree with you.

Edit : The next is an example of the deeper part. I think.

Like a parent has done everything possible for a kid to know right from wrong and understand the difference. They still end up in a gang.

or

A child is in a gang because it needed shelter from the big bad world because mommy and daddy were to high of them selves to look out for their kids.

[edit on 6/28/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

reply to post by Mudman21


Good on you Mudman!

Although I will admit there's nothing wrong with wanting a "break" from your children every now then, that's what grand parents are for among other family .

The youngest years are the best ones IMO. It's so rewarding to see this little person grow up, to get to know and understand them as they grow older.

Keep up the good work, your an exemplary father already.

~Keeper

reply to post by Mudman21


I second the OP



Don't stop doing what you do know.