Original and complete Bible found?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


That's only if you don't believe the truth is what is said is the truth. It is said that Christ's blood washes your sins away. I disagree that the crucifixion is not an important detail. It seems to be one of the important things, that Christ acted as the mediator between God and man as the final sacrifice for all who believe.

Are you saying many people considered saints are egotistical because they don't subscribe to a theosophical or New Age point of view? What if it's the other way around, that people don't want to believe in sin and think they can enlighten their way to God? Why can't the truth be stated simply, and ignored because people simply hate the idea of it, and would rather set out finding their own way than the way given freely?

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

That's only if you don't believe the truth is what is said is the truth. It is said that Christ's blood washes your sins away. I disagree that the crucifixion is not an important detail. It seems to be one of the important things, that Christ acted as the mediator between God and man as the final sacrifice for all who believe.

Are you saying many people considered saints are egotistical because they don't subscribe to a theosophical or New Age point of view? What if it's the other way around, that people don't want to believe in sin and think they can enlighten their way to God? Why can't the truth be stated simply, and ignored because people simply hate the idea of it, and would rather set out finding their own way than the way given freely?

The thing about truth...is each person seems to have their own. Beliefs are a weigh to measure our being. I do not believe in a death bringing good things. I dont believe in blood sacrifice and I think Jesus was clear when he told us...'pick us your cross and follow me'. We all must walk the path...and it is about 'understanding' not just accepting. Truth should be able to be found without books and another man telling you what truth is. The most important truths are in life and the design of the world. I personally thing that the belief in blood sacrifice is a dark old belief and it ties karma to a soul to think that another had to die. I think Jesus showed us the righteous actions of living for the life of Spirit and not the life of flesh...because he did not fight for this life. Jesus taught about many wisdom's that are in the life around us....like the leaven in the bread...or the womb of a first fruit....or the might in a mustard seed. Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said the Kingdom is within you? Do you think that when he said...seek and you will find..that he was wanting you to seek a book?

Sin, as you call it...teaches us things. There is understanding of why we do the things we do. God see's right through us and knows if we have pride, greed, lusts...and knows that being in the flesh causes alot of these things. But God also knows that as we try to fulfill the life of self with things of flesh...our soul will still thirst, eventually leading us to see the Spirit within us and our true nature. There is reasons we have feelings like guilt ect. Our bodies are great instruments and the Spirit weighs and measures why we think what we think and why we do what we do.

Jesus and others have lived for the life of Spirit....over the life of 'self' and flesh. Yes, this is a great teaching, encouraging us that we can do what needs to be done. We all must carry a cross of earthen burdens. We all must walk the path of living for Spirit over the life of flesh.

Im not saying experiences are egotistical....but they can cause some to become more ego filled then what they were before the experience because having a personal experience fulfills the 'self' so much. Im sure you have seen others that once they have an experience...they build their whole truth on it and are very fulfilled as a 'self' due to having that experience. This can cause them a stand still in their path of seeking and understanding.

How do you explain so many people having different experiences? To each person, their experience is a truth.

I saw my mother in her NDE standing in a field of blood...Jesus is the one that took her there. She was a 30 year christian. Her and many others were there and were trying to clean up the blood. Jesus left them there. A lady then came with a book and she was on a horse. She stood watching them all trying to clean up the blood and wrote things in the book.

As I said, how does everyone have different experiences?

From my experience with seekers...they defiantly do not ignore the things they have done when they could of made a better choice. In fact, many seekers I know on their own path are facing the duality of their life more so then many religious people that think they just have to accept and believe. Reflecting on our past choices and being honest about why we have done what we done is spiritual work.

That's because you believe more in your intuition and intellect, rather than just asking God what the truth is. The sacrifice at the cross seems foolish to many people, and yet if it is the truth and they ignore it to seek their own truth, they are committing an error of pride. I recommend reading both the OT and the NT, trying to understand. God constantly warns people to heed His instruction, not speak out of presumption and to be wary of seeking the wisdom of seducing spirits and the wisdom of this world. He even warns people to walk the narrow path, because wide is the way to destruction. Either you understand it or you don't. For years I did not understand and assumed it was the word of man, written to control people. But if the truth is something people do not want to listen to, God has no qualms with allowing them to be deceived. In fact He even sends delusions so that people will believe lies, because they would rather do things on their own terms rather than His terms.

Originally posted by 547000
That's because you believe more in your intuition and intellect, rather than just asking God what the truth is. The sacrifice at the cross seems foolish to many people, and yet if it is the truth and they ignore it to seek their own truth, they are committing an error of pride. I recommend reading both the OT and the NT, trying to understand. God constantly warns people to heed His instruction, not speak out of presumption and to be wary of seeking the wisdom of seducing spirits and the wisdom of this world. He even warns people to walk the narrow path, because wide is the way to destruction. Either you understand it or you don't. For years I did not understand and assumed it was the word of man, written to control people. But if the truth is something people do not want to listen to, God has no qualms with allowing them to be deceived. In fact He even sends delusions so that people will believe lies, because they would rather do things on their own terms rather than His terms.

I think there are those that want to be given truth..and there is a path that the seeker find that truth can be found within.

I have read the Bible many times, was a Christian most of my life. I accepted all that you speak of for many years. I feel that it is the Holy Spirit and Jesus that helped me see what I see now. I did not seek 'my own self' for I daily asked the Holy Spirit to guide me. I went through fasting and much inner reflection of the things the Spirit helped me face and see. I was led to study alot of Hebrew while studying the Bible. The Spirit led me back to the Bible and showed me many things I did not see before. All in all I found that the most important things of Spirit that were in the book....are things that we can find if we didnt have books or past stories to show us. Like compassion, reverence for life, unity of life, devotion to being a benefit in others lives and not a burden, and working together is how we can move mountains. I dont deny the path Jesus walked....I just see a different 'truth' to it then many and I share that. I personally, experienced much sorrow, through facing my belief that another had to die for me. I saw the blood on my hands just the same as the ones that killed him. I think we all must offer what is of Earth back to Earth and live for the life of Spirit as Jesus did and I think one can find strength to do this through walking in Jesus's footprints.

The times before Jesus were full of beliefs in a 'scapegoat' belief. They awaited a man to sacrifice or be the sacrifice. This should not surprise people for all the beliefs in that land of that time dealt with 'blood sacrifice'.

God needs a honest and humble heart.

If someone is 'not listening to truth' as you say...maybe they have found that truth is not something another man has to tell you of. Of course you will see it for what ever way fits your own belief and think that its because people dont want to face sin or dont want to obey God. But many true seekers are humble honest souls...that very much try to do the right thing and be in service of others while here. Most seekers, even if they dont accept a 'belief' from a book....do daily reflect their behaviors and actions and try to 'walk a narrow path'.

What ever you believe serves a purpose for what you need right now. My words or any others should not sway that and I am truly not trying to debate your path. Im only offering a different reflection from my own experiences.

Believing that truth can be found within is not always a 'ego thing'. What did Jesus mean when he said the 'kingdom is within you'? We all can find the true nature of our soul through the Spirit, humility and honesty is defiantly a part of a spiritual path. As I daily asked the Spirit to guide me...the Spirit kept taking back into time and asking me how great spiritual things could be found without another man telling me of them, without a book showing them to me....so all I can share is I found the 'word' in life itself.

My best to you always
LV

Yes it has been found. and the very first page says "This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental."

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Why do spirits/angels/aliens often pass up mutually exclusive claims as the truth? Sometimes they say Jesus was crucified; sometimes they deny it. Sometimes they speak of a coming world government; sometimes they deny it. And don't even get me started with channeled material; it's always somethings different. If some spirits really communicate, and it is not self delusion, why do they lie, and why is that a good thing? If spirits lie, don't they mislead? I see more of it as spirits saying some truth and some lies, in the hopes of misleading people and making them confused. When you want someone to believe a lie, you make the lie attractive as possible, so they abandon the truth and seek the path of the nice sounding lie.

reply to post by IvanObanion


Damn This guy stole my book marketing idea. Now I'm screwed. You can only pull this bit once every 1,000 years or so.

Maybe a cookbook? Cookbooks always do well.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Why do spirits/angels/aliens often pass up mutually exclusive claims as the truth? Sometimes they say Jesus was crucified; sometimes they deny it. Sometimes they speak of a coming world government; sometimes they deny it. And don't even get me started with channeled material; it's always somethings different. If some spirits really communicate, and it is not self delusion, why do they lie, and why is that a good thing? If spirits lie, don't they mislead? I see more of it as spirits saying some truth and some lies, in the hopes of misleading people and making them confused. When you want someone to believe a lie, you make the lie attractive as possible, so they abandon the truth and seek the path of the nice sounding lie.

People don't change when they toss the corpse away. Especially the ones who'd be driven to finding a way to get word back to the "old neighborhood". Think of what would be a likely motive for your average gossip or practical joker, and you're probably not very far off the mark when it comes to the kinds of people who'd want to stir up a little fun with talk of angels and demons and whatever they figure will sell here as transcendent wisdom.

The larger-view people will likely be absorbed in learning about their new environment. It's the small-minded people who'd be less likely to let this go. Especially knowing that if they can punch through, their words will be taken as supernatural scripture by most people capable of receiving them. There may not be any money in it for these people, but the visions of being significant in a world where they failed at being anything other than a busybody when they were still corporeal would be plenty of incentive once they learned (or were taught) how to reconnect with the relative few capable of being connected with.

If an assertion doesn't align with the logic structure of what we can already prove to be how reality is laid out, the I just toss it into the "people will be people" pile and keep it as available research.

reply to post by NorEaster


I don't think all these people are liars or self-deluded. Some people are very convinced they had the experience. This concerns me, because the information they give out is all contradictory. Why do these spirits resort to deception? Could they have a not-so-pleasant agenda of their own?

What if there is one truth but they have the agenda to convince people there are many truths?

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Why do spirits/angels/aliens often pass up mutually exclusive claims as the truth? Sometimes they say Jesus was crucified; sometimes they deny it. Sometimes they speak of a coming world government; sometimes they deny it. And don't even get me started with channeled material; it's always somethings different. If some spirits really communicate, and it is not self delusion, why do they lie, and why is that a good thing? If spirits lie, don't they mislead? I see more of it as spirits saying some truth and some lies, in the hopes of misleading people and making them confused. When you want someone to believe a lie, you make the lie attractive as possible, so they abandon the truth and seek the path of the nice sounding lie.

And how do you know your truth is the right one then? If you see all of this trickery around you...how do you have such grounded faith? Why would God who is good let all of these beings mislead so many when God could just come prove theeself? The questions are endless.

As I said...a message has meaning for a individual. As a message surfaces, it can become distorted through ego, desires, and fear. As well as preconceived ideas can distort the message. I think its far too much to assume that everyone else receiving a different message then you are the ones being tricked.

What good is it to be given truth...if Gods intent is for us to 'seek and feel' our way to our natural nature? I can give you the answer to a math problem, but did I really help you, do you understand the problem and can you find a answer to another math problem by yourself?

There is one spirit....but there are distortions through ego, personality, desires of self, and fears of self. God lets all our desires be filled and lets our fears feed on themselves. Delusions are allowed because in the end, when one starts to weigh and measure what is important...its not the details in the message (like names of aliens, other galaxies involvement, names of a savior, the looks of a higher self, the looks of an angel, ect) but what is important is THE MESSAGE. Did the message show someone offering their self, did it show someone loves them and accepts them for who they are, did it show that the world is more grand then what can be imagined, did it show that 'will' has alot to do with ones path, did it show that there is guidance is sought for, did it show that them that someone cares, did it encourage them to be better, be more observant, is it trying to show them that they are not alone, is the experience showing them that they are 'creators', is the experience showing them that living more for spirit over the life of flesh is 'the way', is their desires over riding the message and making them feel special or unique, is their fears over riding the message and causing them to 'believe' in something ONLY out of fear, the avenues are many what a message and experience can be for another and then if you ask many how to interpret ONE experience....you will have many thoughts on that ONE experience.

There is no 'outside' spirits tricking anyone....if we are seeing with distorted eyes, its due to desires, ego, fears, or preconceived ideas that we refuse to let go or preconceived ideas that something 'can not be'.

If one thinks they KNOW something....will they see the angel when it stands before them?

How do you explain in the times where angels were so popular, many had 'messages' from angels. Now, as aliens are so popular, many have messages from aliens. Its the unconscious mind trying to work with the conscious mind and this occurs on a individual personal level for each of us. If its aliens we wish to be a part of or feel comfortable with, then its likely we are going to 'work things in our mind' to where aliens fit in there somewhere and they may have experiences that seem very real to 'justify' their beliefs. Same as those that believe in Jesus...have experiences of Jesus. Indians have experiences of 'the great mother spirit'....each 'belief' has experiences that a person can 'accept and be ok with'.

I think if someone is feeling that a 'spirit' told them any thing about Jesus being real or dying on a cross....I think the 'reason' for the message can be found in a very deep place in that own persons 'comfort levels and preconceived belief'. Its a way the person can come to terms and be ok with what they feel inside them. Its like a justification to them, to experience being told 'they were right all along'.

But souls that are more open will have experiences that 'make them think' and challenge their previous thoughts. If a person is NOT open and they are absolutely sure they KNOW truth..... their 'personal truth' will not be challenged through an experience...for there is no room for critical thinking in this persons working mind. Maybe they just can not face that 'it could be more or less then what they thought' and they dont want to face such possibilities.

We all have our reasons, for excepting what we do. Its not obvious there is a God...so I think its silly that all are going to be judged on 'believing' in something they cant see. I think its all about your inner nature, do you live for things of self or do you wish for things for all souls, do you try to stay on a good path and be a benefit to others or do you take for yourself alot and use more then you need.

If we try to be open and work on soul development, we can seek the Spirit daily and ask for guidance. Try to make sure we are working on things like desires, fears, living for self, personal ideas of what we thing is right and wrong...and allow the Spirit to come through in a undistorted way. As long as we think there has to be a image for a experience of a message...there is distortion. As long as we have preconceived ideas from what another man has told us there is distortion. We have to daily look at life and wonder what can be found with just seeking the Spirit in all things. The most important messages are not about a image of a man or aliens or angels....but things like acceptance, love, offering, compassion, empathy, strength, confidence, will, ect.

Behind each experience there is a deeper message. The works of the mind and nervous system are really an instrument. The instrument may for a long time refuse to play a new tune. The instrument may find that it can play many tunes. It may find that many tunes together play ONE song. Its all going to depend on what a person already 'thinks', if they are 'open' to new ideas, if they are seeking experiences to be fulfilled as a 'self', if they have fears that wont let them open up to critical thinking, ect.

Personal truth is different for many because we all have a different level or readiness for understanding. Some truths are simple and just accepted, for they need simpleness. Some truths are complex and very satisfying to the individual in making them fell fulfilled as a 'being'. Some 'truths' simply serve unconditional love to a being that they are much in need of due to past experiences in their life of hurt and not being accepted.

We all want to have details to truth....when its been repeated through history by humble seekers that 'love' is the truth and way. Love doesnt need names, it doesnt need proof, it doesnt need past history, it doesnt need aliens or other galaxies histories.....but it does need personal understanding on a personal level for each of us to find its worth and value.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I don't think all these people are liars or self-deluded. Some people are very convinced they had the experience. This concerns me, because the information they give out is all contradictory. Why do these spirits resort to deception? Could they have a not-so-pleasant agenda of their own?

What if there is one truth but they have the agenda to convince people there are many truths?

edit on 20-12-2010 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

Ever play The Telehone Game when you were a kid? People drop the ball when relaying information, and many people - we see it here all the time - work hard to make their version of the information they have as compelling and significant as they can make it. If this requires a bit of dramatic license, then that's what is applied. Its not necessarily an evil agenda, or any agenda at all, but it isn't helpful when trying to get details straight. Most folks don't deal in details. They deal in what they experienced at a visceral level. Especially "spiritual" people. They are the ones most prone to vagueries when depicting significant experiences. Then, researcher types, like us, work to fill in the blanks, and before long, the entire premise has morphed to a degree, and takes on allegorical aspects that may or may not have been part of the original premise.

People are people, and that's just how reality works if you're depending on people in your search for the truth. Humans generate a form of information called Perception, and it is not a fact-centric form of information. The truth is that Perception is more valuable for teaching you about the person who generated it, than it is for teaching you about the central focus of the burst of information itself. This is always important to keep in mind when dealing with Perception.

It's kind of hard to believe all these new "spiritual truths" when it's mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN that spirits do lie, and are not all from God. Most of the Bible warns of spiritual deception. Considering that it's repeated so many times Christ died to clean all sins for those who believe, and spirits again deny it or preach a different version of the truth--and it is known what they say is a lie many times, since, unlike the spirits which wrote the bible, what they say about the future is often wrong due to "freewill" (Old Testament lead to New Testament, freewill or not), contradicts each other, etc--I would think that putting the two and two together would spell out completely a different picture of the phenomena. With this concept in mind, a reading the OT makes a lot more sense.

reply to post by NorEaster


I see what you mean too. Do you happen to believe that some people are contacted by these entities? There are so many cases of it it's hard to doubt them all.

Originally posted by 547000
It's kind of hard to believe all these new "spiritual truths" when it's mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN that spirits do lie, and are not all from God. Most of the Bible warns of spiritual deception. Considering that it's repeated so many times Christ died to clean all sins for those who believe, and spirits again deny it or preach a different version of the truth--and it is known what they say is a lie many times, since, unlike the spirits which wrote the bible, what they say about the future is often wrong due to "freewill" (Old Testament lead to New Testament, freewill or not), contradicts each other, etc--I would think that putting the two and two together would spell out completely a different picture of the phenomena. With this concept in mind, a reading the OT makes a lot more sense.

All that I can say is your basing alot of what you call truth on what another man has told you of. Like...that there is more then ONE spirit.

Do you think that if we all stood before our maker/creator that we would deny Thee?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Well, if lying spirits can deceive the whole world to battle against God, I'm pretty sure there is more than one spirit out there. Also I've been reading the review of the book "Spirit of the Rainforest". While it's hard in Western society to believe in such things, many people around the world contact spirits, as in plural.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Well, if lying spirits can deceive the whole world to battle against God, I'm pretty sure there is more than one spirit out there. Also I've been reading the review of the book "Spirit of the Rainforest". While it's hard in Western society to believe in such things, many people around the world contact spirits, as in plural.

As I said...we deceive ourselves. As individuals we want to feel 'worth'. As individuals we want to know we have nothing to fear and have created ways to have that. If you are not reaching for the true source, the Holy Spirit, its the ego, personal construct, individual desires and fears that distorts the truth.

How do you figure that other Spirits can 'be' outside of God? Just because someone calls a distorted message a 'true spirit' with truth doesn't make it so. We each can only understand and accept so much. The distortion comes from ourselves.

What ever we believe, shows something about ourselves. Shows Spirit what our inner nature is and how much of that nature is living for things of earth or things of spirit.

How do you figure a 'lying spirit' deceived the world to battle against God?

Originally posted by IvanObanion

You posted a picture of Papyrus Bodmer II (p66) 200 C.E.
Which proves the Bible true.
www.earlham.edu...

I am not saying this is true or false.
I do say it seems that they are Selling Books.
and not a way of faith and belief.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I see what you mean too. Do you happen to believe that some people are contacted by these entities? There are so many cases of it it's hard to doubt them all.

I've done a lot of looking into this sort of thing - not in regards to religious aspects of spirit communication, but more in terms of the skeptical/scientific angle on after-death communication, and yes, there are people whose brains are malformed or damaged somewhat, and the abnormality results in dynamic informational beings being able to get through the normal blocks that prevent such communication in healthier brains. These people are considered "gifted" because people are interested in what their brains allow, but the same can be said for geniuses and other people with brain abnormalities.

The thing is that the human brain exists to take in external stimuli, process it with what its gathered as memory and historical context, and then generate perception-centric information (Intellect), which is incredibly content rich and literally aware of its own physical existence. This is due to the fact that the human brain assesses and responds to the fact of its own existence (we experience this as consciousness as soon as the response is generated as managed perception - a process that is performed by the Personality, which represents the gathering informational mass that has been the ongoing result of each burst of Intellect since the brain began independent functionality.

That gathering mass of Intellect separates from the corporeal generator when the generator dies (brain death), and as information, it is eternal in physical presence. Can't be destroyed. After all, a fact (the least sophisticated form of raw information) can never not be a fact once it has emerged as a fact, and this fairly insignificant truth is indicative of the nature of all forms of information. That said, the massed Intellect (the result of the human brain's entire span of corporeal activity) completely and accurately represents its author in all respects, preserving the generated consciousness as a true and aware being with all the memories and notions of identity that came together to create it. This is what you call a person's "spirit", or "soul", or some people call it their "divine essence". This is the you that ponders the generating/analyzing corporeal brain. This is the person that cannot be found if you look deep within a corporeal human being, regardless of the tool you use.

This eternal person is the fully formed and viable human being. The corporeal blood and bones Intellect factory that gathers input and processes it and stores memories of it and is used by the Personality to weight and catalogue and categorize and accept and reject and ignore and promote that external input, as it balances it with the internally accessed memoried information to achieve a consistent and focused perception/perspective, is akin to a gestational placenta for this 2nd stage of human development. The efforts of fully viable human beings to affect and overly influence this development process is not a design protocol seen as generally positive or helpful. This is why the human brain is hardwired to be oblivious to the efforts of fully developed human beings to affect them. Still, some brains are not properly formed during 1st stage gestation, and others get damaged through the course of a lifetime, and in some cases the impact of that damage results in the buffers becoming compromised.

This being the case, the most ambitious and aggressive humans (fully viable and fully developed, of course) realize that they can affect thousands of gestating human beings through the effect they can have on one of these "special" brains. The return on effort - at least on this planet - has been extraordinary in some cases, with millions affected by one or two significant impact events. The establishment of the top-down autocratic theology has been the most successful accomplishment to date, and has been used to prepare billions - many billions - for effortless processing and management of fully viable humans as they "cross over" "through the tunnel" and embrace "the light" to be led off to their "reward" or "punishment", as the case may be. Hell even the Pagans and New Age types are expecting to be "gainfully employed" and doing "spiritual work" when they leave this life.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to imagine the value in preprogramming humans - while in gestation - to want to be sheep (to the right hand of God) as opposed to allowing them to emerge whole and indestructible (and each human being does emerge indestructible, since information cannot be physically destroyed) with the capacity to be and do whatever they want. The afterlife would be an absolute zoo. And as far as those nasty or rebellious humans - doesn't take much to "prove" that the well-burned-in concept of Hell exists for such problem folks. Not hard at all to make it as real as if it really exists. Especially if the rebel is as clueless as pretty much every human being making that transition actually is about the entire process.

Maybe they even franchise Hells out to sadistic authoritarians who just want to help maintain order? I wonder what's used as currency between people there? Maybe just being useful to each other is all it takes.

So, as far as people lying - from that side to this side - I'm betting that the fully viable human beings on that side have no better handle on what they are and what the truth is than we do over here. And why would they? If the average gestating human being doesn't even know that this is a gestational stage of development, then what makes you think that the average human being gets any more understanding about itself just because it died?

And, as far as this book being The Original and Complete Bible, let's face it, if it was...... sh*t, I can't even finish that sentence in a way that doesn't insult the words I'd use. That's just the most obvious scam I've ever seen. I wouldn't be able to cash the checks from the people buying that book. It's shameful.