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Man Sentenced To Life In Prison For Shoplifting

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posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by slank
 


I agree. While this guy is a nuisance to society, and probably irredeemable, unless and until we start treating white collar crime as if it were actually crime, and giving them these kinds of sentences, he is basically being punished for being poor.

When the people who order actions that end up in the deaths of innocent people around the world are locked up safely for murder, as they should be, I will worry about a 2 bit drug addicted shoplifter, and what to do with him.

We have bigger fish to fry people, get out the skillet.




posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Jeez... It's a victimless crime, i'm not excusing it - but when you hear about rapists getting 5 years and murderers getting 6 years, you gotta realise there's something massively wrong with society and the law.

Maybe the guy had Kleptomania or was funding a habit or was poor.

Sure lock him up, teach him a lesson or send him into rehab, but don't lock him away for life.


Where do you figure that murderers get 6 years?I don't think that happens in to many places..



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Jeez... It's a victimless crime, i'm not excusing it - but when you hear about rapists getting 5 years and murderers getting 6 years, you gotta realise there's something massively wrong with society and the law.

Maybe the guy had Kleptomania or was funding a habit or was poor.

Sure lock him up, teach him a lesson or send him into rehab, but don't lock him away for life.


Solution to such a problem?

Physical punishment.

Physical punishment can literally remove your habit from your sense.

But we all know what happened to Western law and order, remember the feminists?

I find it odd that I can't even put my cd player headset in the car without having to be in it. Every time I have to remove it because there will be a high chance of someone stealing it and maybe breaking the window to steal so I have to pay for that also.

Then the cops come and hassle you even more on how they weren't able to enforce the law.

It seems Western law is just a makeup, just like the makeup feminists wear.

Yeah you can keep saying how the law protects me, but 99/100 of the times, the law didn't protect me.

I have to take the law in to my own hands, and that is the 1 time which the cops did their job and charge me for taking the law in to my own hands.

I got jumped on broad daylight, in front of food town, with massive car traffic watching me getting beating to the ground.

No one came to help, including the damn police who are suppose to enforce the law. Thanks very much, but when I went with my brothers and some mates and smashed one of them, the cops happened to be there within 5 minutes. That is not justice, that is not law enforcement, that is a sh1t of a system which has caused so much animosity in NZ and across Western world.

The cops charged us with assault.

Nice one.

I got more stories, but heck whose gonna listen.

The police are more concerned about the rich, the law is more concerned about the rich. Prove me wrong.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by LittleSecret]



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret

But we all know what happened to Western law and order, remember the feminists?



Really? This guy shoplifted because of feminists?

Wow. Release him immediately and send all the women back to the kitchen so we can get back to the crime free idyllic society we had before the womens movement!




/sarcasm



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


No this guy shoplifted because the law is too soft.

You don't have to be a genius to understand that.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


If the story holds true, then he honestly wasn't jailed for life for shoplifting. He was jailed for life for incurring his 3rd felony which just happened to be shoplifting. If his 3rd felony was rape would that be justifiable?


I could find nothing in any of my news sources that said he was convicted of rape or any other violent crime.

One of the great difficulties is that what constitutes a felony varies from state to state. In some places if you accidentally drive into a mailbox and leave the scene of the accident that can be considered a felony. Or driving with a suspended or revoked license may be a felony.

It seems to me that there's a vast difference between rape and shoplifting. This is not to say that stealing is okay, just that it should be punished according to the seriousness of the offense. While Kohl's may have been economically damaged to some small extent, most retail establishments estimate about a 10% shrinkage due to shoplifting and consider it part of the cost of doing business.


Like I said, if you continue to give people like him a chance you'll be the burnt one without a tv.

Some people make mistakes, atone for those mistakes and move on with their lives.

Some people rob and steal, get caught and try to figure out how to do it again without getting caught. That generally goes on until they die, or end up in prison for life.


While I wouldn't like to have my tv stolen, I am not so vindictive as to expect or demand that the thief spend the rest of his or her life in prison for it.

Then there are people, maybe not so clever as you, who just don't know how to survive any other way. I believe some effort at rehabilitation is needed in these cases, with life sentences reserved for just the worst and/or most hardened criminals.




[edit on 28-6-2010 by Sestias]



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 


Please answer me this:

How is sending this man to prison for life accomplishing anything? It costs ~$90 a day to keep a prisoner locked up.


He could stay at your place, or you could "job-share" with him. Need a babysitter? Car detailed or yard mowed?

If this guy cared about working or living a constructive life, he wouldn't have his record.

I'd be willing to bet that "The system" didn't do this to him, he did it to the system.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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It will cost the state hundreds of thousands of dollars to put this guy in jail.

Perhaps if they just paid him he wouldn't need to shoplift?

Better yet, give him a job.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


Even with a bunch of prior felonies, this seems like a pretty harsh sentence for shoplifting at Kohl's.


You omit the "car chase" he led police on.

What about the families living or driving near the store?

He obviously has the resources to own a car and put gasoline in it.

Maybe next time, (after he's served "good time" and is paroled) he could just sell the car and buy a gun.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


You're letting an emotional response be your rationale to support the sentence instead of basing it strictly on the law. That's the problem.

When you start saying things like "lock him up and throw away the key" because he "could" have injured others you tread into dangerous waters.

The same thing that affords you due process and protection from being falsely charged with a crime through assumption is the same thing that is supposed to protects this man from being incarcerated based on what he "could" have done.

The three strikes law is unconstitutional to begin with. Punishment for a crime must be proportionate to the crime itself and apply to everyone. The problem comes from the first 14 offenses being dropped to a misdemeanor.

A felony theft charge is given for all thefts over $500, and in most places carries a max sentence of 5 years and/or $10,000. Honestly if he was charged accordingly after the first 2 offenses, with good behavior dropping the sentence down to 2 years, he would have been in jail for 24 years at LEAST.

You don't have to put a sliding scale judgement system in place if you enforce sentencing guidelines to start with. You cannot make up for lax sentencing in this retroactive way. You apply the same punishment across the board and there is no need for these dangerous laws.

You should be more angry that his charges were dropped to misdemeanors to begin with. He probably continued because he brought in more money than the fines were costing him when he did get caught. He was kept out of the jails because he was not a violent offender. To turn around and sentence a man to life when the system refused to try and rehabilitate him to start with is an atrocity and just plain silly.

Charge him with the crimes, sentence him to the max with no possibility of parole, then when he's paid his time let him go. Otherwise down the road you'll see the court system slide into an abyss of judges imposing sentences based on their mood that day.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by 30_seconds

It will cost the state hundreds of thousands of dollars to put this guy in jail.

Perhaps if they just paid him he wouldn't need to shoplift?

Better yet, give him a job.
I have no problem with prisoners having to work for the $90 a day it costs for their food, etc. It's done in some places. This was his 5th felony so he actually got two extra breaks from the 3 strikes law. Or it was his 11th if you count the other 6 felonies that were reduced to misdemeanors.

I think he deserves the sentence he got. But I'm not crazy about him costing us $90 a day. So let him work for it. Give him a job while he's in jail. I used to see prisoners cleaning up roadside trash for example. So they weren't exactly taking jobs away from non-criminals who wanted to work. And they got out so it was better than sitting in jail rotting.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


If they are stupid to get caught 3 times then yes put them away for life I'm tired of paying higher amounts for goods to cover loss from some low life.if his rap sheet was so long that is when he got caught they arn't telling you it would be probably be twice that. I say cut off thier hand like they do elswhere.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 04:48 AM
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Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 

Fleeing from police in a car is more serious than "just shoplifting."

People who ignore this part of the case are misrepresenting the facts. He was charged with THREE felonies in this escapade.

We had 2 kids die last month when the driver of the car in which they were riding crashed while "leading police on a chase."

Irresponsible idiots deserve what they bring on themselves.

jw



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I have no problem with prisoners having to work for the $90 a day it costs for their food, etc.


Our county has "road crews" and "inmate workers" who SAVE taxpayers money!

Just looking at infrastructure costs and overhead does not accurately reflect the cost/benefit analysis of incarceration. It also serves one or another of the 3 traditional purposes of punishment, isolation, and reformation.

Sometimes, society BENEFITS from incarceration.

jw



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 


You're letting an emotional response be your rationale to support the sentence instead of basing it strictly on the law. That's the problem.

When you start saying things like "lock him up and throw away the key" because he "could" have injured others you tread into dangerous waters.


His sentence IS based strictly on the law!

You've let your liberal bias cloud your thinking. Why don't you give him a job cleaning your kids' school, or cleaning your house?

No one complains about what he "could" have done; he fled, leading police on a car chase!

That along with theft and reckless endangerment are more than enough to establish his incorrigibility.

I put a guy in prison in TX for breaking into a Coke machine. It was his 6th time, and we "aggregated" his three pending offenses (he'd bond out and do it again) into a felony.

He stopped. So will this thug.

jw



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 


To turn around and sentence a man to life when the system refused to try and rehabilitate him to start with is an atrocity and just plain silly.


You have no idea what "the system" tried. Maybe he CHOSE this course for his life!

jw



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Calling me liberal is soooooo wrong that it's warrants a strong questioning of your sanity friend.. lolol

And really.. charged a man with a felony for breaking into a coke machine?


So if he were to do that 12 more times, you'd advocate a life sentence for that man since it would technically be his 3rd strike?.. Interesting insight into your psyche.

Asking me to personally take the man in is a diversion tactic. No one is asking anyone else to do this.

This is no different than the "hate" crimes that are popping up across the country. People who do not believe the punishment is stiff enough circumvent the original outlines of the law to serve their own personal beliefs instead of actually going a direct route and petitioning for a direct penalty increase.

As someone stated earlier in this thread, no amount of petty theft should lead to a mans life long incarceration. Yes he ran, yes he's a habitual thief, but it does not warrant a life sentence.

Allow me to present a hypothetical scenario.

We all know the new healthcare makes it illegal to not carry health insurance. Say they make this a felony. You find yourself unemployed and have to choose whether to keep your insurance, or feed your family. Of course you would let your insurance lapse. Now you have a felony on your record. Now if you were put into that circumstance 3 times in your life, would you expect under the 3 strike law to be given a life sentence?

You can jump up and down and say this is an absurd hypothetical scenario, but you'll know in the back of your mind that the 3 strike system has an ability to be used for evil purposes. As I stated earlier in this thread, it's not so much I'm sticking up for the guy as I am pointing out that it is a travesty of the justice system that you can be given an arbitrary life sentence for things short of murder.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by PayMeh]



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 07:12 AM
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The thing is dont get caught! advice from ex cia cat!



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 



Sure lock him up, teach him a lesson or send him into rehab, but don't lock him away for life


Umm....they already tried that....10 times.


So what now?

Harsh punishment or not, this guy isn't learning his lesson. Throw him under the jail and toss away the key IMO.

Yes, we could argue about rapists only getting 5 years in some cases...it's a sad comparison. But lets not forget this isn't about rape.


In the end, i know that most "life sentences" don't mean natural life in prison. They mean 40-50 years. Which translates to 20-25 years with good behavior.

Personally, for a guy like we seen in the article...i think 25 years should be enough time for him to contemplate not stealing someone elses hard work and go get a damned job.



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