Man Sentenced To Life In Prison For Shoplifting

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

The system, and we as a society have failed this man.
[edit on 27-6-2010 by PayMeh]

No this man failed himself.


Each of us makes life what it is with the personal decisions we make.


Raist

It's hilarious to see that a country that has as a motto "one nation under god" basically ignores every rule in the bible

Forgiveness is part of most religion I would say.

And I am a non-believer

FYI.. in Ca, along with other states...

The law decides that after a person gets convicted of, and served time for, certain crimes.. a subsequent "petty theft" arrest is a "wobbler", i.e charged as either a misdemeanor or felony.. an example 666PC below.

Another rule of thumb.. it used to be that if 666PC doesn't apply, a 3rd shop-lift type "petty theft" is arrestable/chargeable under 459PC - felony burglary.. idea being a chronic thief enters with specific "intent" to steal.. especially if they have no means to pay.

While he did 'only' shop-lift, and run from the poe-leeces.. this time.. it's likely a felony theft charge, along with felony evading that added up to a "life" strike-out...

The prison industrial complex gained another tax payer funded permanent guest.. thanks to laws they lobbied for... hip hip, hooooray!

To wit: (10851 = GTA)
www.leginfo.ca.gov...
666. Every person who, having been convicted of petty theft, grand
theft, auto theft under Section 10851 of the Vehicle Code, burglary,
carjacking, robbery, or a felony violation of Section 496 and having
served a term therefor in any penal institution or having been
imprisoned therein as a condition of probation for that offense, is
subsequently convicted of petty theft, then the person convicted of
that subsequent offense is punishable by imprisonment in the county
jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison.

I agree with those that say he had his chances and blew it. What stands out to me is it appears strikes 1, 2, and 3 all happened at the same trial. Seeing that he had always had his sentences commuted or reduced to misdemeanors I'll bet he didn't see it coming. I do not know for sure; so please correct me if I am wrong, is that standard sentencing?

reply to post by Raist


Alright, but when it becomes a felony to reject the new healthcare, and a felony to reject the preventative measures they will impose, perhaps then you will see.

It's not about ONE person. The system will not work as a "one size fits all" model. It's not the most egregious case that could be presented to us to use as a platform for this debate. It's also not a 14 times convicted rapist/murderer either.

I have no interest in basing my argument on this individuals case. It's a matter of opinion whether or not he, as a person, deserves this punishment.

The fact is that the the penal systems solution to a cut on the finger is to cut off the arm. It makes no sense and reeks of an "if I don't see it, it doesn't happen" attitude.

reply to post by PayMeh


You sir/madam are in the wrong thread.


What does healthcare have to do with a guy who just cannot learn his lesson? What does the fact that he flees the police and puts others lives at risk have to do with healthcare? You sound like the type that likes to go against “the man” just to do it. For the record, I have healthcare, and this thread is about some multiple felon loser who will never learn. This individual is a sack of poo for putting others at risk for his selfish wants.

You can rant all you want but this man had plenty of chances to try to straighten his life up, he failed.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


It has nothing to do with healthcare, and obviously my point went over your head. Your demeanor calling the man a "loser" denotes a certain tone where you would believe yourself to be "better" than him based on the limited amount of superficial information you have gained about this man.

If this were any other group of people being discussed, such nearsighted "lump them all in one basket" attitude would have you labeled as a sexist/racist in short fashion.

If more people saw these people as human beings instead of just seeing a felon, then these people could actually reform themselves. The problem is ones who try meet people like you who think they don't deserve a fair shake after their sentences have been paid and are branded for life. Forced to live on the outskirts of society unable to separate themselves from a the circles in which a life of crime can exist.

reply to post by PayMeh



To get this out of the way, I am going to say, that while it's harsh that this man has been given life, for the last stunt he pulled, I agree with it.

No based on your last reply, how many chances, exactly, do you think a criminal like this needs?

I would like to point out, he's had plenty, and still tried to shoplift...

I mean c'mon, you can scream all ya want about him being stuck in the lifestyle, or the nieghborhood, or whatever...this guy still did the crimes, and every time he got out of jail, did more! People are entitled to their opinions.

Tell you what, why don't you wait outside of a jail, for people like this to be released, and house, feed, and dictate what way a criminal can get out of a life of crime. Go ahead, and open your doors to 'em it you want to. I bet your neighbors will love you for it! Don't dare tell people not to appreciate the sentance this guy got, and spew your junk, unless you are going to take up the responsibility of re-educating these repeat offenders.

Obviously, our tax dollars are not accomplishing it, so make it your personal mission!

reply to post by PayMeh


I never said I was better than him. I do though learn my lessons fairly quickly, something this man fails at.


He has had multiple chances to change. He has served his time and was given chances to change. Now because he is a “loser” who does not learn he will serve time again.


How many chances do you give someone? Not to mention the fact that he was in a car chase with police. So it is now okay to place the lives of others at risk over things?

My heart does not bleed for people such as this. He made his bed now he can lie in it. I say this because I changed from a path very similar. I made the choice to try and better myself, this man refuses to change.

Raist

And if you are a drunken, criminal, money laundering banker who rips off taxpayers for Trillions,

you get to keep you multimillion dollar bonuses,

and your 10 or 20 million dollar luxury estate, Your fleet of automobiles in your 5 car garage & the illegal housekeeper you don't pay a dime of social security taxes for.

Our nation doesn't have social justice, it has the most perverted, robbery of the poor & working for the legalized theft of the rich, ultra-rich & the corporations.

I would be angry enough to kill,

with an ice cold, clear conscious.

With 6.5 billion people, the criminally rich elites & their government co-conspirators are completely & PRODUCTIVELY expendable.

Boom, get some satisfaction, cock your shotgun [like that war criminal Israeli soldier]
Boom, get some small portion of social justice, cock again,
Boom, help clean up the human gene pool of its most despicable treacherous liars.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


The fact of the matter is throwing people in jail for life for crimes less than murder in the first degree or habitual sex crimes is unnecessary, counter productive, and comes at an extreme expense of the people in the form of tax dollars.

What about felony victimless crimes? Would you back the government up then? Why don't we use this for misdemeanors too while we're at it. 3 unpaid traffic tickets, lets throw them in jail and toss the keys.

Where do you stop? For Christ's sake people you can commit murder in this country and not get life in prison.

Everyones response here is the knee jerk reactions that allow laws like this to be put in place. It's essentially a law that says the perpetrator will not reform and continue to commit the crimes. It's a ruling based on an assumption of a future crime.

reply to post by Raist


Again, I point out, my argument is not based on this individual. It's based on the pitfalls of the three strike policy in general and the inherent problems facing felons who actually want to change.

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by Blanca Rose

 

The fact of the matter is throwing people in jail for life for crimes less than murder in the first degree or habitual sex crimes is unnecessary, counter productive, and comes at an extreme expense of the people in the form of tax dollars.

You wouldn't be saying this if you were the next victim of this guy. If he robbed you after already having had several convictions, you'd be singing a different tune, I believe. Who's to say his crimes would not escalate to where he actually killed somebody during a robbery? If you want to take that chance, then by all means, like I said, you make him your responsibility. There is no way, this creep should be allowed to roam the streets, over, and over again! He's had plenty of opportunities!

What about felony victimless crimes? Would you back the government up then? Why don't we use this for misdemeanors too while we're at it. 3 unpaid traffic tickets, lets throw them in jail and toss the keys.

Can you provide an example of a felony victimless crime? A crime is a crime, and wouldn't be if there was no victim. As for unpaid tickets? Hey, if you don't want to pay, then, don't get one, simple as that!

Where do you stop? For Christ's sake people you can commit murder in this country and not get life in prison.

That was up to the jury. If you have a problem with what jurors can select for a punishment, then, you need to let write letters to the people who have influence in such areas.

Everyones response here is the knee jerk reactions that allow laws like this to be put in place. It's essentially a law that says the perpetrator will not reform and continue to commit the crimes. It's a ruling based on an assumption of a future crime.

No! His past history, and the fact he's been incarcerated several times, yet gets out and does crimes all over again, is what got him a life sentence. He's not redeamable, by his own actions.

Originally posted by no special characters
It's hilarious to see that a country that has as a motto "one nation under god" basically ignores every rule in the bible

Forgiveness is part of most religion I would say.

And I am a non-believer

I laugh every time someone says this. It has nothing to do with forgiveness. Who is to say no one has forgiven him? I forgive the guy but he should obey simple laws or learn from his mistakes. Not doing so means he faces the consequences. The bible clearly states that we are to follow the laws of man so long as they do not go against the laws of God.

If you want to get technical though this man not only broke mans law but one of the commandments as well. Of course as a nonbeliever you already knew that though and were trying to turn this into an argument that is not even there to further your own personal agenda.

Raist

reply to post by PayMeh


Well I will point to it again also, in case you missed it.
He repeatedly (more than three times) committed the same crime. He fails at learning his lessons, he is of no use to society as a whole since he is a leech on the system in more ways than one. This individual (that the story is about) would not have to worry about three strike laws if he would have learned the first time or even the second time, or maybe even the eighth time. But he did not, he repeatedly keeps doing the same thing over and over again. If you play with fire you will get burned.

Raist

reply to post by Blanca Rose


Oh, and I guess anyone who shows anger issues is a danger to society.

The 3 strikes law crosses over the border of convicting people of crimes before they actually do them. It's a sentence based on the probability that they will commit crimes again. It's why law enforcement is not allowed to act until a crime is committed. Does this have some inherent danger to it? Yes, because someone with homicidal tendencies can't be locked up just because he "could" kill. Someone will always have to be a victim of a crime.

You're treading into a 'minority report' world when you start taking steps toward convicting and sentencing people based on the probability of them committing a future crime. It's profiling plain and simple.

Does it do some good? Yes it does. Does it leave room for abuse of the system? It sure does. That part is the part that worries me.

reply to post by Raist


There are far worse leeches in the system, do you purpose we lock all them up for life for being leeches too? Because I've got a long list of people who abuse the system and are of no social value if you would like to start there. But then again, we have no right deciding who is, and who is not of social value.

Since I can see I'm not going to make you understand why things like this are a slippery slope leading to further oppression, I will let you know that while we disagree on some things, I do support punishments fitting the crimes. I just don't think the answer is feeding and housing someone for life.

reply to post by PayMeh


The only options other than feeding and housing them for life are teaching them the same lessons life does (that you can be more than a criminal, that this guy seemed to fail to understand), putting them to death (which is going a bit far), or putting them to work in some sort of work camp type of thing. Since the last two choices are wrong and the first choice he does not seem to get regardless the only other choice is life in prison.

I understand your points. Facts are though I disagree with them and think you are missing the point of learning lessons in life. You can cry for these poor, sad people all you like, but when they fail to learn from their mistakes and keep screwing up they should be in a place where they cannot cause others grief.

Raist

Originally posted by 12voltz
Some people like being in jail,you get a bed and you get food and a society where you can fit in .You also get lot's of loving friends.

Yes and prisons will not be big enough

unless they built camps

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
In a way I disagree with 3 strikes and you're out laws, in some ways I agree.

In this case, I agree.

Looking at his record, it was obvious he was never going to change. Why lock him up for one year so he can get out and potentially kill someone robbing them.

He had his chance, and he failed horribly.

If he had killed someone, this thread would be about how incompetent the justice system is, how it was obvious he should have been locked away years ago.

I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

I most times do not copy an entire quote but this is all pertinent.

This is a prime example of the type of people I wish would form a country of there own and leave mine to empathetic humans.

Seriously you would want top throw this human being away for stealing material goods? Did you even think or did you react?

How much of societies material goods can this poor ignorant person steal to warrant throwing his freedom away forever? :shk: