The Filesharing Conspiracy

reply to post by Skyfloating


In the music industry over here in Australia, there has been a glut of discussion over why the entertainment media industry just isn't competing. It comes down to one very simple premise: in days gone by, the record companies owned the production plants to create the media. It was a simple business model. You create the content of a vinyl disc or tape and repeat the printing process. To an extent this has been around since typesetting.

Careful agreements that gave the authors of the work a royalty income stream as a percentage of the modified gross (or net) would ensure that there was incentive to continue to produce those works.

The closest business model that I can see works is the Bigpond method which basically sells access to content, kind of like a subscription. At least that way is is some money, and it can be fought over by the arty seagulls as it were a chip.

I left the industry because people at large thought that this field was a public domain field. They owned you. Until it came time to pay you. Then you were just an unemployed dropkick.

I agree with the OP's sentiments.

Dave

Great Thread!

I believe our Culture is preparing for the fastest moving, information flowing era that we can't even begin to think about. The times need to catch up with the idea's and technology's of today! Maybe we can get to that after this recession/oil spill/ immigration problems/ endless war. The venus project is the tip of the iceburg for the idea of working for free. I for one would provide my services for free if I was able to live my life! Right now I work two jobs, and attend college full time (not now summer break)

Originally posted by dean007


but i have never really regretted fixing someones computer for free

sometimes its good to do what your good at and not charge people it makes them happy and it usually makes me happy to

Volunteering to give freely is something entirely different than people taking them from you.

Originally posted by b0sanac
I admit I have done my share of music downloading, however there is a just cause(I know I know, the new mentality)but bear with me. The reason I downloaded music I because the music that I listened to is not available virtually anywhere

I dont think anyone is going to press charges for people downloading stuff that is

a) no longer available
b) no longer sold anywhere
c) not available in stores

Thats the most innocent of downloading imo.

reply to post by AnthraAndromda


"So ... the artists, writers, engineers should not be rewarded for their work!? And you really think that the content will magically appear anyay? And just who do you think will produce the content for free?"

I can assure you that content will be UTTERLY FREE!!!!
Produced by intelligent software and machines FAR FASTER,
FAR SMARTER and FAR MORE ARTISTIC than ANY human!

So your argument is UTTERLY MOOT already as some VERY GOOD
musical, literary and even video content is produced entire by rule-based
expert systems and coming very soon....powerful, learning neural nets
which I have been fortunate enough to PERSONALLY SEE create
ENTIRE SYMPHONIES in a matter of minutes that are qualitatively
equivalent if not BETTER than ANY current or past artist.

I have already seen prototype VACTOR (Virtual Actor) programs
that can create dialogue and 2D and 3D highly realistically rendered
performances completely ON-THE-FLY or by automated script-writers
based upon samples of writing genre and style.

Within 10 years actors are TOAST! Musicians are TOAST, even sound
and video engineers/editors are GONE!!!!! All because of SMART software
that can quite outperform even some of the most talented people!

And one system which just happens to be sitting on my desk RIGHT NOW
has been able to synthesize some of the most realistic bitmap paintings
I have EVER seen because it uses physics-based modelling & rendering
of ALL objects and lighting...AND...it has the ability to completely
SYNTHESIZE artistic and aesthetic photo composition using built-in
rules such as Rule-of-Thirds, Laws of Perspective, Emotional Content
and Impact. It's all synthetic and it's BETTER THAN ALMOST EVERYONE
in it's artistic capabilities...!!!

Nope! I can assure you that if you're an artist or media person,
your job is going to be relegated to either personal self-satisfaction
only, or you'll end up like the buggy whip makers of yesteryear
going broke competing with machines that are faster and simply
BETTER qualitatively than your own talents!

Most of you simply don't realize how far technology has come!
And YES, that new software & hardware can also COOK too!
Very well indeed in fact...better than any Wolfgang Puck or
Chef Ramsay!

So all this downloading, P2P stuff is pretty much a MOOT point!
The media companies have LOST and they are DINOSAURS doomed
to DIE under te crushing weight of their own inflexible inertia and by
the way of technology that will KILL THEIR BUSINESS MODEL DEAD !!!!!!!

Hey industry-officials, are you guys reading this thread? I think you guys need to wake up to what people really think. Here's a sample:

Originally posted by dean007
i have always had a rule never just go out and buy

I cant believe there are some naive enough to think the CD or DVD industry is still doing fine or has any future.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by jsettica
I don't believe this is a conspiracy in any way shape of form.

What it is simply, is the ability of the public or the people of the world have out grown the formats of the old industry's. As you can see the people of this world continuity evolve and grow, that is the natural state of thinks of this world if you don't, then your like an 8 track no where to be seen.

How can you all be so sure its not? Why is it so easy to access everything?

Originally posted by StargateSG7
reply to post by AnthraAndromda

 

"So ... the artists, writers, engineers should not be rewarded for their work!? And you really think that the content will magically appear anyay? And just who do you think will produce the content for free?"

I can assure you that content will be UTTERLY FREE!!!!
Produced by intelligent software and machines FAR FASTER,
FAR SMARTER and FAR MORE ARTISTIC than ANY human!

So your argument is UTTERLY MOOT already as some VERY GOOD
musical, literary and even video content is produced entire by rule-based
expert systems and coming very soon....powerful, learning neural nets
which I have been fortunate enough to PERSONALLY SEE create
ENTIRE SYMPHONIES in a matter of minutes that are qualitatively
equivalent if not BETTER than ANY current or past artist.

I have already seen prototype VACTOR (Virtual Actor) programs
that can create dialogue and 2D and 3D highly realistically rendered
performances completely ON-THE-FLY or by automated script-writers
based upon samples of writing genre and style.

Within 10 years actors are TOAST! Musicians are TOAST, even sound
and video engineers/editors are GONE!!!!! All because of SMART software
that can quite outperform even some of the most talented people!

And one system which just happens to be sitting on my desk RIGHT NOW
has been able to synthesize some of the most realistic bitmap paintings
I have EVER seen because it uses physics-based modelling & rendering
of ALL objects and lighting...AND...it has the ability to completely
SYNTHESIZE artistic and aesthetic photo composition using built-in
rules such as Rule-of-Thirds, Laws of Perspective, Emotional Content
and Impact. It's all synthetic and it's BETTER THAN ALMOST EVERYONE
in it's artistic capabilities...!!!

Nope! I can assure you that if you're an artist or media person,
your job is going to be relegated to either personal self-satisfaction
only, or you'll end up like the buggy whip makers of yesteryear
going broke competing with machines that are faster and simply
BETTER qualitatively than your own talents!

Most of you simply don't realize how far technology has come!
And YES, that new software & hardware can also COOK too!
Very well indeed in fact...better than any Wolfgang Puck or
Chef Ramsay!

So all this downloading, P2P stuff is pretty much a MOOT point!
The media companies have LOST and they are DINOSAURS doomed
to DIE under te crushing weight of their own inflexible inertia and by
the way of technology that will KILL THEIR BUSINESS MODEL DEAD !!!!!!!

Dude, have you actually checked out any auto-composing music software? What's out at the moment is, er, primitive to say the least In fact, I know a lot of the start-ups in this field have actually shut down or rowed way back because progress and end product was just way way way too weak.

I call troll on this one.

Haha, and also, I don't think it's exactly a "moot point" that actors, musicians and artists don't get paid for the next "10" years while waiting around to be replaced by smart software

[edit on 29-6-2010 by J.Clear]

I haven't read the whole 20 pages of the thread, but these two links are perhaps something to be considered by the book author having a hissy fit earlier on:

www.baen.com...

www.baen.com...

and just for general interest

Interesting thoughts.
Now on the musician front, a lot of musicians actually make all their major money from gigging since they dont get a large cut of the profits from the CD (The record company does get a lot as you point out, but I dont think its an excuse to download personally). I like online streaming, and I can see why people demand it, I don't want to spend 20-30 dollars on a CD which may or may not turn out as a good purchase, why should I risk my money when I don't know if its worth it, especially when I have a limited budget?
If I do download or get things off a friend (rarely), if I like and respect the artist I will buy it asap. I always look on the artists site to see if they are registered and on any of the music sites that give all the profit to artists.

I personally don't download movies, but at the same time, movie tickets are getting more expensive (around 15 dollars here now for just normal, let alone 3d) and dvd prices are a bit ridiculous, seems a little greedy.

I only really use open source software, it does almost anything for me that I need and if I really need something else, id probably buy it.

I think its because its seen as a 'victimless' crime that its seen as ok by a majority of society. By victimless I dont mean there arnt victims, just that they arn't visible, or are multi billion dollar corporations which are still making a profit despite it.

Also I don't see it as being used by the government to launch a crack down, as you said its seen as normal, the people wouldnt stand for it since they don't accept it as illegal, things need to be seen as wrong for such a thing to work.

reply to post by debunky

Wrong!
This again is where we part company. Whoever designed the car owns the digital
data. Nobody goes around pushing buttons. Nobody has a say so in who pushes that button but the person who owns the data. That person markets his or her own digital data. Same with MY SONGS!

reply to post by loveonthelawn


Ok. I thought that was on topic. My apologies. My personal experience is that record companies do make all the money. Except in exceptional circumstances where an artist is successful enough to re-coup their expenses. And even once that has happened they still get a tiny percentage of the sales. Most musicians only income is to play live. *Snip*

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[edit on 6/29/2010 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by darkangel831
reply to post by darkangel831

 

Hello?

Anyone out there?

The world is still trying to figure out the answer to your question. That is why it is such a controversial topic.

reply to post by MikeNice81


Oh sorry...



This is all very complicated to me and I was just trying to get a handle on it..

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by dragnet53

 

If you buy a song from Itunes and play it in your car it is legal. It is part of Fair Use. Now if you copy the whole cd and give it to your friend then it is illegal. You are hurting the profit potential of the work and comitting theft of intellectual property.

You can buy an RF transmitter to play your Ipod on any FM reciever. It will allow you to take it into any car you are riding in and let everyone enjoy the music.

NO, you misread what I said. Using your Ipod on music you bought from Itunes on certain car radios you can't listen with. It is some rule that RIAA stated for Itunes. The music you buy from Itunes is for personal use only and not meant for you car according to RIAA.


AHH found something and it is called a DRM. What do you expect I found this information on a site that teaches you how to remove it. LOL



www.qweas.com...


[edit on 29-6-2010 by dragnet53]

Originally posted by Kaspar64
The greedy fat cats in suits are to blame for their own demise. I mean come on - RRP £49.99 for an Xbox 360 game that my son can complete in several hours ? I couldn't justify paying it and wouldn't on principal, and before anybody fires a shot at me, yes I know there are many people to pay out of the revenue and sometimes years of development etc but really ? £50 ? Then the pressure on me to buy because his mates have it is immense !

Remember when music cd's were nearly £20 sometimes for the latest album then along came mp3s and its ' oh no this is affecting the music industry and killing the bands off etc ' blah blah. Rubbish. The supermarkets are now selling chart albums for less than £8 and I don't think any 'artists' will be living in a house as small as mine anytime soon.

They ( the publishers etc) are greedy and deserve to be 'ripped off ' or any other way of putting it you want. If you think that is wrong, then stop and wonder why you had to pay £20 once for something that is now 8. File sharing has brought about this change. They had to adapt to it and the better for all of us that want the music.

That said, my only defence of the video game industry is that it is probably a longer list of names in the credits than music. Maybe I am wrong. If I am please do enlighten me.

(Vive La Revolution ! :lol

Just to add, I'm not trying to condone piracy, theft, whatever but pointing out why it happens and maybe why so few people outside of the industry care about it.

you should see the gaming industry now. I give you an example of a game called dragonage origins. They make you pay 69.95US for the game. Then they charge for quests that go with the flow of the game that are considered "extra". I think I saw the points they charge for is 1980 points for 20US. Each quest that is "extra" is around 240 to 560 points. I bought of course the cheaper points which was around 10US which I believe was around 800 points. But now all games are starting to slowly take this trend. this is why I am a cheap gamer and wait till the price drops to around 30US.

Greed is so bad....

Originally posted by StargateSG7
reply to post by AnthraAndromda

 

I can assure you that content will be UTTERLY FREE!!!!
Produced by intelligent software and machines FAR FASTER,
FAR SMARTER and FAR MORE ARTISTIC than ANY human!

This reminds me of 1984. Am I the only one that remembers the main character describing how music is made for the masses. They use a giant machine that turns out drivel just to keep the Proles happy. IT is a complete distraction to help keep them in line.

I don't believe humans will be completely cut out of the process. I've used some of the software for making music. You can still tell the difference. Their is human feel in human produced music that can not be replicated. Howevr, it make take over main stream music. That is an audience that is allready overly comfortable with quantizing and digitally produced sounds.

I think a large portion of entertainment will continue to be human derived for at least a couple of decades. The computing power required to turn out something of truly equal quality to video or film in the digital is still massively huge and expensive. That is why they use rendering farms just to handle the CGI in a movie like Max Payne. A movie like Avatar probably keeps dozens of servers running 24/7 for the better part of a couple months.

The computing power isn't available to the common person yet. IT probably won't be in the near future. SO humans will continue to dominate the out put for years.

reply to post by StargateSG7

I am curious what is your background in music? I read your post twice but I didn't see anywhere you made mention of qualifications that would allow you to make those types of judgements.
Also quantity has no bearing in quality of music. Smarter? Artists are certainly intelligent but have never been accused of being Einstein. More artistic? Come on Dude even you know being artistic is subjective from the buyers point of view.
You may be right or you may be wrong but that is not the point. The point is why would any civilization relinquish their most prized and creative activities to machines? That is a step back not a step forward!