The Filesharing Conspiracy

Originally posted by TylerKing

Here I'll bold this so maybe it gets through. I'm fine finacially, my complaint isn't from lack of making money it's with the idiotic thought that an artist's work should be free just because the lazy say so. It isn't yours, it's mine.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by TylerKing]

Then keep it ...

reply to post by LordBucket




As a musician I do not completely agree with you. If I sit for hours, days and weeks working on songs trying to 'complete' them and get them to the point of being where I am happy. Well then I get a certain satisfaction and if you come to my gig and come to listen to it would you also expect for me to play my artistic creation to you for free?

Are you going to feed me and house me so that I can have the opportunity to be creative and create what I do. Would you be willing to do what you do for no charge? How would you then pay for your internet access and just you electricity bill to keep your computer running?

I must say I do believe people are being exploited by the corporate world and thus it creates the platform for charing. Thousands of years ago I would give you some grain for ,lets say some meat. That was 'sharing is caring'. In that sense I agree with the OP, you can't just take and take, somewhere someone is losing out for you convenience.

Rabaski

This is a very well written article, indeed! I can see how this comes to mind with talk of regulating internet searches and prosecuting users via "thought crime". I don't think there is a conspiracy at hand because I have been involved with the underground filesharing community ever since we utilized DCC file sending on IRC servers. However, the recent explosion between Gnutella networks and Torrent providers could possibly allow the government to prosecute millions as you stated before. Oh, and about this:

Originally posted by Skyfloating


Thirdly - doesnt anyone want to reward those book-writers, movie-makers and musicians for their work? What ever happene to appreciation of value?

I would very much LOVE to reward these artists but in a more direct manner than what is available. It is a shame that they must depend on record labels, production companies, and publishers to disperse the content for them. I often do not feel that the artists are being treated fairly by said companies and therefore, think the authors of the content should make an attempt to utilize DIY methods.

Think, if the artist was solely responsible for the content and there were no middle men taking a percentage here and few percent there, they would be MUCH better off. Most of their income is not through sales, but through endorsements and so on. Personally, I think this hinders genuine creativity since their affiliates like to ease them in the direction of new target audiences in order to expand the market with no regard to what really came from the heart in the first place. I hate to see token economies readily buy and sell genuine art and freedom.

All of this causes artists to lose touch with themselves only to touch more of the almighty dollar.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by XtheMasque]

Click here for more information.

reply to post by jsettica

I don't no where you get your info but you need to find a new source. Clothing makers use Patents,Trademarks,and Copyrights.

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by B.Morrison

 

When I was a broke ass little kid I walked myself five or six miles to the library and read the books. The town I lived in didn't even have a bus service...

oh boo hoo....do you want me to steal you a tissue?

when I was a kid I lived in a cardboard box & crawled 2000km's through broken glass to get to even read an advertising billboard.....

yeah we all had tough lives, tell someone who cares.

I still appreciate and use the new technology & means available to me to further my education & strive for a better life for myself,
no one is perfect & if accepting invitations to receive gifts from fellow citizens of planet earth is the worst of my crimes I will die the happiest man on earth.

There is no justification for stealing luxuries or some one's time and effort.

your apparent priorities are baffling.

there is no justification for many things, I find your choice of battles to fight frankly ridiculous in the face of the OTHER problems each and every one of us are facing in this world today.

or is that just it? QUICK EVERYONE LETS FIGHT PIRACY WHILE WE TURN OUR BACKS TO THE WORLD BURNING AROUND US!!!!"

I suggest you grow up a little bit.

-B.M

[edit on 28/6/10 by B.Morrison]

I have marched for gay rights, marched against wars, wroten letters to senators, and on and on. I fight battles every day while most people here are bitching on forums. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about piracy.

Piracy is theft. There is no justification for theft. Being poor doesn't make it okay to steal books and music that others spent hundreds of hours and untold expense creating. If you want to better your life go to a library. They allow you to borrow books, cds, and dvds. They pay a higher initial price to cover the loss of revenue. They still pay though, and hard working people make the money they deserve. Otherwise you are hypocritically claiming to better yourself while all the while continuing to be a thief.

Irony and idiocy are lost on most people.

I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE PARTICIPATING IN THIS DISCUSSION OR WITH AN INTEREST IN COPYRIGHT AND WHERE IT 'STANDS' IN TODAY'S DAY & AGE TO WATCH THIS FREE DOCUMENTARY!!!!

In RiP: A remix manifesto, Web activist and filmmaker Brett Gaylor explores issues of copyright in the information age, mashing up the media landscape of the 20th century and shattering the wall between users and producers.

The film’s central protagonist is Girl Talk, a mash-up musician topping the charts with his sample-based songs. But is Girl Talk a paragon of people power or the Pied Piper of piracy? Creative Commons founder, Lawrence Lessig, Brazil's Minister of Culture Gilberto Gil and pop culture critic Cory Doctorow are also along for the ride. - Cory Doctorow POSTED AT 8:04 PM October 16, 2008 Source

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6da89f8bf2aa.jpg[/atsimg]

“… a fun ride, filled with snazzy animations, enthusiastic talking heads and one helluva Girl Talk show” …..IndieWire

“An entertaining, thoughtful, and politically committed articulation of what the filmmaker dubs the “copyLEFT” …..PopMatters

“A knockout.” ….Maclean’s Magazine

“… [a] film that everyone should see” …..Needle Drop Magazine

Official Website & OFFICIAL+FREE Download link/location

Or watch RIP:A Remix Manifesto on youtube..


-B.M

P.S) most of the arguement presented by ATS members in this thread are represented by a 'talking head' in this presentation...its also highly entertaining for what it is

enjoy!

[edit on 28/6/10 by B.Morrison]

Here's a challenge for the challenged. All the file sharing people who don't think artists and writers deserve to, or shouldn't, make money off their work please tell us what you would have them do. Here's a list of 5 hypothetical questions, show us your grasp on the future, and the minute you start with that la-la-land BS about how things should be you lose the argument, simple enough?

Remember this example I'm using is hypothetical.

1. My book is online for free, it's being reviewed as a masterwork, so since I shouldn't make any money off art, where should I get my money for shelter food and living expenses?

2. If I have to get a job to make ends meet where should I work? And I want an exact place, not something vague. Name a company or an exact line of work.

3. If I have a regular minimum wage job so I can have the free time to keep working on my art what should I do for health care since that won't be provided?

4. What should I say when asked why sites like Pirate Bay get donations for my work but none of that goes to me?

5. And finally why is your information, even if the answer is as simple as "I work in fast food", so hard to admit to? Why is it that your privacy is so guarded but someone's work is just up for grabs without a second thought?

[edit on 28-6-2010 by TylerKing]

Great article. Very well thought out, and indeed something to think about.

I have another conspiracy idea that's an alternative to the one provided about "FREE" filesharing, and the supposed loss of revenue artists and software makers lose.

What if....

to offset losses from piracy these very same artists, companies, and ventures set up a "download" portal of a conglomerate of software manufacturers and media corporations who have been brought together under one or more websites who all have been aproached by an advertising software maker - or end user logistics data miner (spyware) - that have software that can be incorporated into any application who promises these same corporate "Victims" that they would get at least, if not more than, the monetary compensation speculated that has been "lost" due to piracy?

Information that many, many corporations around the world would pay big bucks for with regards the information these hidden software applications would strip from free software downloaders regarding user behaviors, user interests, user locations, user financial information, user family statistics, user type of car, user type of dwelling, user social data, user dialogues... heck, you might even get lucky enough to get into an inventor or investor's machine, imagine the info you could rip from folks like these...

software installers like innoware, installshield, wise, and others all have these applications built into them! I kid you not... Now imagine having paid for that piece of spyware that is going to do the same thing to you... the hard working, paying customer?!

Imagine if you were the government, and you wanted access to every machine running in your country?

Cha Ching! big bucks there! (anyone remember a little program known as Karnivore?....)

So, who's really a victim? those companies that have opted in on the free download bonanza have made millions off of these spyware programs.

IMHO, free downloaders today are now just allowing these things to happen, just so they can use the software, or listen to the sound track.

Pretty cool huh?

Reply to post by Skyfloating

Well think about there is a huuuuge flux of new musicians because of "free" publication sites like youtube,facebook, myspace etc... and imagine how much money one would spend to support those artist. The competition is way tooo big to even consider buying tracks and cds. This is a new age where people are in a recession despite piracy, so don't you think ppl will budget off spending 20bucks a cd seeing as new hot albums arise too often.

Free Products = people spending there money elswhere, that's where marketing comes into play


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Well piracy sites should offer a comission bonus for donations they receive.

But we live in an era, where everyone wants to be an succesful artist. Well this is the invisible hand slapping down competition, and truly succesful artist always find sponsors and grants for their contributions.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Rabaski
reply to post by LordBucket

 

As a musician I do not completely agree with you. If I sit for hours, days and weeks working on songs trying to 'complete' them and get them to the point of being where I am happy. Well then I get a certain satisfaction and if you come to my gig and come to listen to it would you also expect for me to play my artistic creation to you for free?

Are you going to feed me and house me so that I can have the opportunity to be creative and create what I do. Would you be willing to do what you do for no charge? How would you then pay for your internet access and just you electricity bill to keep your computer running?

I must say I do believe people are being exploited by the corporate world and thus it creates the platform for charing. Thousands of years ago I would give you some grain for ,lets say some meat. That was 'sharing is caring'. In that sense I agree with the OP, you can't just take and take, somewhere someone is losing out for you convenience.

Rabaski

I happily pay for your performance.
Why?
You can put a tough guy in the entrance and demand money from me for attending.

I will happily not pay for your recordings.
Why?
Because it is impossible for you to regulate the distribution of (digital) recordings in any meaningfull manner.

Its not like we are toppling an age old system here.
Getting rich from recordings was possible for about 50 years. It no longer is, so if that is your plan, it is your problem.
Last I heard making horseshoes was less profitable than it used to be too...

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign

How stupid can you be. Musicians or songwriters did not put their work in the public for free they put it their for sale and it is protected by copyright. They own it and it is their PERSONAL PROPERTY just as your home is yours pal. Just as your car is yours the song I wrote yesterday is mine in the exact same way. You just for whatever reason can't get it or refuse to deal with reality. When I distribute my music for sale I am placing my private property up for sale. Now since you believe it is ok to steal my private property or as you say share my music would it be ok with you if I shared your car? Of course I wouldn't tell you when I would be sharing it I would just share it whenever I needed it. I mean after all you didn't notify me when you shared my music.
Also could you let me know where you live. If your home is in a climate I like I will share for my vacations. It will beat the heck out of what I've been payin'. Sorry but once again I would not be able to notify you in advance of when I would be sharing your home.

Originally posted by TylerKing
1. My book is online for free, it's being reviewed as a masterwork, so since I shouldn't make any money off art, where should I get my money for shelter food and living expenses?

hypothetical defunct as it implies that if something is a high enough standard of work that it would earn vast amounts of money, that it should therefore NOT earn a penny. That is not the argument being made by the PRO file sharers with 2 brain cells to rub together, and engaging the posters here who DO subscribe to that argument would be a waste of time..

For money, get job. Be man. Doooo the Riiiiiiight thing.

If you write a book that appeals enough to a mass audience it could be picked up for a film, then you would do fine off the royalties.
The best thing any artist can do is look into Royalties,
those that don't perform live concerts, make money from Royalties.

I can't speak about books more than to say that they were a dying medium before I was born and I'm going grey so I'm not exactly young...
I would have thought an author would rather 'accept & work around' then stand around bewildered saying "no...no! don't do that..no! this can't be!"
while the rest of the world continues on without you.

2. If I have to get a job to make ends meet where should I work? And I want an exact place, not something vague. Name a company or an exact line of work.

you don't ask for much do you? I know I wouldn't hire someone too lazy to even choose his own meaningless bread-n'-butter career...

3. If I have a regular minimum wage job so I can have the free time to keep working on my art what should I do for health care since that won't be provided?

move out of a country whose government doesn't care enough about its people to provide basic health services?

...no offence intended, America is O.K....
I just hate the thieves, y'know? those stinking a-hole pirates...the REAL pirates...Snot and Boogers...that kind of mob...those kinda gouls...

piracy has already been show to benefit the economy early in this thread so if you are pinning/hand-balling your recession caused financial troubles to 'piracy' you gone loco mon-a-me!.

4. What should I say when asked why sites like Pirate Bay get donations for my work but none of that goes to me?

The logistics would be impossible even if laws were passed, you have not thought this through. Look into the legal & current version of what you are talking about; 'royaties' and think about all the unlicensed usage even within THAT system.....

5. And finally why is your information, even if the answer is as simple as "I work in fast food", so hard to admit to? Why is it that your privacy is so guarded but someone's work is just up for grabs without a second thought?

because my personal safety & that of my family & loved ones TRUMPS the safety of a painting or a book ANYTIME & ALWAYS WILL.

I mean honestly what kind of backwards question was that...

-B.M

[edit on 28/6/10 by B.Morrison]

No rick it isnt the same.

If you sell 1 novelty mug, that cost you 1$, your production cost was 1$

If you sell 2 novelty mugs, that cost you 1$, your production cost was 2$

If you sell 15 novelty mugs, that cost you 1$, your production cost was 15$

If you sell 10000 novelty mugs, that cost you 1$, your production cost was 10000$

Now, If you sell 1 copy of your song, your production cost is exactly as high as it was if you sold 10.000
Ask any economist: The market value of a good with a marginal cost of production of 0 is 0
And market value is what i am preparted to pay for it.

Businessmen are raping the music industry. It's not about talent anymore, or music for that matter. It's all about the green. If your talented and original, you shouldn't have a problem making a living off your art. You don't have to make millions to be successful

Originally posted by MikeNice81
I fight battles every day while most people here are bitching on forums.

and then you come on ATS in between that to bitch about piracy....

Irony and idiocy are lost on most people.

indeed it is.

Piracy is theft. There is no justification for theft.

then give back the land you are standing on.

You can have principles,
but I'd sure love to see if you'd rather starve to death than steal a loaf of bread to live another day.

talk is cheap.

We both have valid reasons for our beliefs in my eyes,
I am open, you are uncompromising,
that (in my eyes) is the only place we differ.

I have no interest in continuing this discussion...
thank you for the debate.

-B.M

[edit on 28/6/10 by B.Morrison]

Some people seem to be having some issues remembering that politeness is a virtue to emulated.

This is a fascinating topic, and should be discussed. The operative word there is "discussed". Politely.

The name calling back and forth stops right now.

Now then...

On with the polite, reasoned conversation.

reply to post by debunky

Be a little more helpful. What post of mine are responding to. Or am I just not seeing it?

reply to post by B.Morrison

I don't know about you so I can't say. I did not steal the land I am standing on.