Joining Freemasonry

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O..

You might have more time to read what's already on ATS if you did a search.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Also, this thread is about Freemasonry, not O.T.O.

Of course, I know you will not respond to my posts, but what the heck. There's always a chance what is said to you will connect.

DTOM, I envy your patience, but there's also a chance the world might spin the other way .

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
whats with masons and australians?

Duh.
Perhaps you should go back and read what you yourself posted. Kellner and Reuss were Austrians, not Australians. In case you were not aware, Austria and Australia are different places.

Bwahahahaha

I really do hope that wasn't what he was refering to. It won't surprise me that it was, good decifering ML. Not only are you one of the most knowledgable people on this board, but you connect with the less inclined .

Originally posted by Darktalon
DTOM, I envy your patience, but there's also a chance the world might spin the other way

.

Patience is not really one of my virtues. Perhaps I'm finally getting a little more. Perhaps it comes with age

I always hope that those in the dark about so many things will finally "get it".

I've been reading a lot of posts lately on this website and I noticed something that kind of made me wonder. I've read a number of posts by people claiming that they wanted to become a freemason to gain knowledge or esoteric wisdom. Do you guys see why seeking that from a group (no matter who the group is) could be dangerous at times? Not seeking something like that in and of itself, but seeking a group to gain that kind of knowledge. When you approach a group like that are you not in a sort of vulnerable state because you are searching for something? If a group knows you're searching for meaning doesn't that really leavee you open to being taken advantage of mentally?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming the freemasons or BOTA or OTO or Golden Dawn or others are cults. But I'm just wondering has anybody who ever belonged to groups like that ever thought that "wow...if i joined them, couldn't i have also accidentally joined a cult as well."? And if nobody has ever had that run through their mind, why not? By cult i don't mean heresy i mean mind control heaven's gate type stuff.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

The fact is, though, that there is a difference. I joined Freemasonry (for reasons stated above) knowing it wasn't a cult, because I'd talked to members from my potential Lodge, as does everyone when they join. The fact that I was mildly discouraged from joining (as is everyone) was also illustrative to me... a cult would not do that.

You have to give people credit for the ability to make their own decisions about what they're joining, given enough information. Beside that, of course, I don't think "looking for esoterica" is the mindset upon which cults prey. What they're looking for are people who have a lot of trouble with their own life, and are willing to use the cult as a crutch... people who have lost someone, or in financial trouble, etc. Freemasonry specifically deters people from joining if they think it's going to gain them any "mercenary advantage," so there's no though of Freemasonry fixing all your problems.

Also, Freemasonry is not somewhere you go where there's a "compund" or an overnight house or anything... there's no getting trapped in Freemasonry, because you only go two nights a month! I myself am extremely active, and I'm only out about 6 nights a month, on a tough month.

Additionally, Freemasonry does not separate you from your family, the way that cults do. Freemasonry always makes it clear that your obligation to your family comes before any obligation to the Order.

Thanks! That's just the kind of info I was looking for. I was using Freemasonry as an example and maybe it was not a good one since they do not really seek membership the way cults do. And like I said it's not Freemasonry that I think could be dangerous. But i think the fact that people are searching for something and looking to find that from a group that could be very dangerous. I still think that this is something people should be aware of.

Originally posted by miltie
But i think the fact that people are searching for something and looking to find that from a group that could be very dangerous. I still think that this is something people should be aware of.

First, it is important for anyone on the Path to understand that everything he or she is �looking for� is already present within him/herself. The Science of Initiation cannot, and does not, confer upon the Candidate anything that he or she technically doesn�t already have, and if one believes that joining this or that fraternity, mystery school, religion, cult, or political party will give them all the answers they are looking for, they are profoundly mistaken.
But the Mystery Schools do indeed have an important function. The common concept among those who criticize the System of the Mysteries is that �low level� members are �controlled� by �higher ups�. This just isn�t so.
The whole point of organizing a group is to combine in one Congregation the Body of Initiates, that they may assist each other in the Work. We who are not physicians lack the knowledge to practice medicine. But if we go to medical school, we can learn this Science from our instructors, who are Adepts of Medical Science. Our medical professors do not �control� us; they merely communicate the knowledge they have obtained through study and practice, and invite us to learn from those experiences, as well as to experiment on our own.
Such is the case is with the Mystery Schools, such as B.O.T.A., O.T.O., Golden Dawn, and, to a lesser extent, Freemasonry.

Fiat Lvx.

Agreed.


I think it would be more accurate to say "this isn't ALWAYS so." There have been countless episodes of higher ups controlling the low level. (ELizabeth Claire Prophet etc.) But I guess that just depends on how you define Mystery School.

Why aren't my quotes getting posted?

I wish to add a comment regarding the Master Mason in a day practice. When I went through my degree work, it was the traditional long process where the degree presentation was given, then I had to do the work in the degree which took 1 to 2 months to complete. I moved to a lodge which did not do the long form, and I was not required to to the long work for my Master Mason. I felt as if I were cheated in comparison to the first 2 degrees.
To go through the York Rite was the normal 3 day process. Since then I have seen this shortened to 1 or 2 days in certain areas.

In my opinion, that would qualify as �cult�, i.e., a group ran by an autocratic individual, or group of individuals, who demand strict allegiance, and profit by personal gain, whether monetary or otherwise.
A Mystery School, on the other hand, is a Body of Students, who form one Mystical Body through the Science of Initiation, and whose goal is the discovery and communication of Truth.

Fiat Lvx.

BTW, anybody have any comments on The Meaning of Masonry
by W. L. Wilmshurst? Is it any good?

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
The fact is, though, that there is a difference. I joined Freemasonry (for reasons stated above) knowing it wasn't a cult, because I'd talked to members from my potential Lodge, as does everyone when they join. The fact that I was mildly discouraged from joining (as is everyone) was also illustrative to me... a cult would not do that.

In what way were you "mildly discouraged"?

And what about AMORC? How would you characterize them?

Originally posted by InterceptorKnight
When I went through my degree work, it was the traditional long process where the degree presentation was given, then I had to do the work in the degree which took 1 to 2 months to complete.

What kind of work is required for the degrees? Is it like bookwork, studying and whatnot? Volunteer work in the community? Or for the Lodge? I don't understand... If you can't say, I understand that also, I'm just trying to get the whole picture... Thanks

Originally posted by The Axeman
In what way were you "mildly discouraged"?

I was repeatedly told the Freemasonry would not help me financially, that I should not join looking for "easy answers," but that I would have to put work in to my own understanding, and that I should not join unless I felt I would be able to pay my yearly dues without injury to my own economic stance.

Originally posted by The Axeman
What kind of work is required for the degrees? Is it like bookwork, studying and whatnot? Volunteer work in the community? Or for the Lodge? I don't understand... If you can't say, I understand that also, I'm just trying to get the whole picture... Thanks

Memory work. Memorization of certain words, signs, etc.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by InterceptorKnight
When I went through my degree work, it was the traditional long process where the degree presentation was given, then I had to do the work in the degree which took 1 to 2 months to complete.

What kind of work is required for the degrees? Is it like bookwork, studying and whatnot? Volunteer work in the community? Or for the Lodge? I don't understand... If you can't say, I understand that also, I'm just trying to get the whole picture... Thanks

I can say that there is studying involved for the degree work.
Volunteer work for the community is an example of the types of things a Mason is expected to do to exemplify himself, independent of the degree work.

Originally posted by miltie
And what about AMORC? How would you characterize them?

I don�t have any personal experience with A.M.O.R.C., but I know several of their members who are also Masons, and they speak highly of that fraternity.
From the little I know about them, they appear to be orthodox Hermeticists.

Fiat Lvx.