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Fox Business' solution to financial crisis: Tax the poor more

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posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by Styki

Originally posted by brainwrek

Eradicate all unconstitutional expenditures, yes, including all forms of foreign aid and "social assistance programs".



Everyone who is against taxing the rich always starts to point fingers at government spending. What do they point fingers at? Everything that doesn't benefit the rich. It's as if there is a line, and if it doesn't benefit the rich then it shouldn't be included in government spending.

People are by far the best investment that this country can make. When we invest in the average person, we better the country. When we invest in other countries, we better the world. I'm not exactly sure where the profit margin is on this investment, but I am pretty sure we will be better off in the end.


Eliminating social assistance and other entitlement programs isnt necessary because they dont benefit the rich, it needs to be done because those unconstitutional programs consume a hell of alot of money.


\Nothing in the Constitution authorizes the feds to spend our money on various forms of welfare, and since its one of the biggest expenditures, why not start there?




posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


The constitution doesn't tell the government what it can do. The constitution tells us what the government can't do.

Just because the constitution doesn't say the government can help those less fortunate, doesn't mean it can't. If you don't agree the maybe you should take it up with the Supreme Court?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity

... the rich and think-they-are rich are trying to figure out creative ways to squeeze every last penny out of our dwindling lower class.
....
I'm a bit speechless. How about you?


No, I'm not speechless...."Ms. Casone, are you nuts??"....plus,


Ok, now....for those old enough to have voted in 1980, you are familiar with what I'm going to say. Much younger than that and you're the frog in the water as the temps rise....jump out now and beat the tar out of those who are cooking you!

In the late 1980's/early 1990's my younger sister and her husband decided to vote Republican (again) and lower their taxes. Well, when it came time to send her kids to school, lo and behold, she had to write a check to pay for the school bus, which wasn't that way when she went to school in the 1960s.

It was then that she figured out that every time she voted for no new taxes, she got slapped with "user fees", which was costing her more! Public places events that used to be free/little cost were now nickle and diming her family.

For me this got so bad under the last Pres Bush's tax cuts, that I wrote to him pleading for no more tax cuts! Every time, and I mean every time he lowered my taxes, gas prices went up, and I got letters from all my insurances (car, home, health) saying that they were raising my premiums. My tax cuts went to pay for these raises!

So, yes, you sure are right about those creative ways.

And, you know, one last thing, if I might. I remember being horrified to read years ago a brief article which had a Reagan (think Red, White, & Blue!) campaign advisor responding to a question about democracy. He said this, "Democracy?! Democracy is just an illusion!"

Democracy, an illusion. An illusion used to manipulate others. Now I feel it is that way about the phrase, Middle Class. To politicians and their minions (Karl Rove etal come to mind), "middle class" is thought of as merely an illusion to manipulate voters.

Since 1980, the middle class was wooed by politicians who ended up sneaking away their wealth, picking their pockets in reality, and tossing them aside, every bit as the worthless scum who woos a virgin into giving up her virginity to him, then tosses her aside because she's no longer a virgin.

No, I take it back. Now they're worse! According to the article, they're still trying to screw us!



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Styki
 


Uh....are you serious?

If you wish to debate this matter, please educate yourself on the topic at hand first before making a fool of yourself.

A good place to start would be reading Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution.

Get out your crayons and take notes, you might actually learn something after reading it.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Unfreaking believable!

Corporations, who used to pay the majority of income tax in the US,

don't pay a SINGLE THIN DIME in taxes, because of offshoring profits with Cayman Island PO boxes or locating HQ in Dubai or other tax dodges.

Add to that that rich Americans get super secret bank accounts with the criminal tax evasion division at UBS bank [who Obama goes golfing with their US CEO]
the rich pay NO income taxes by breaking the law,

and the US 'Justice' Dept. assists them in this & sends Birkenfeld who exposed this economic atrocity & crime against the tax paying public goes to prison for doing the right thing.

Add to that that UBS has PEP accounts for Politically Exposed People [aka Congress & the President INCLUDED] and i can't even say what i know should be done to this bitch & all the criminals that have hijacked the US government away from people for the globalist gangster syndicate.

WHY aren't you ENRAGED America?

Are working decent, struggling Americans SO demoralized?
So psychologically crippled & undermined by the stream of lies that comes from the corporate media?

Why don't you stand up, RAISE HOLY MOFO HELL, and DEMAND real change,

& if that STILL has no effect start an armed revolution,

which is legitimate, since YOU & NOT the conspiring government is America,
and YOU & NOT the criminal government determines what is valid & lawful in these United States.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by slank
 


For some reason, a lot of people don't seem to believe this.

Wouldn't you think the brainiacs in business and in government would have thought through the ramifications of their plan to allow both this kind of thing and further eroding of the tax base by shipping jobs offshore? It's common SENSE! Anyone making decisions like this in business or in government should be summarily dismissed. FIRED.

People SHOULD be angry and up in arms, but they're not. Why not?

I believe that part of the problem is people still stupidly believe that government WOULD think about this and protect both their and the country's interests.

Absolutely NOT the case.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


Well I am certainly no constitutional scholar. I am certainly not able to argue where programs such as welfare fit into the picture.

On that note, I will say that programs which invest in our less fortunate parts of society are needed. The majority of the people is what makes a country strong, not the status of a few. It will not benefit the rich to turn a blind eye upon the majority.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Please do give your thoughts on this, for any new ideas are better than no ideas at all. When we have any negative event that happens within this world, we tend to just want to talk about the fear we have of it, and never give any thought to how we can overcome it. So yes, please do.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek

Originally posted by Styki

Originally posted by brainwrek

Eradicate all unconstitutional expenditures, yes, including all forms of foreign aid and "social assistance programs".



Everyone who is against taxing the rich always starts to point fingers at government spending. What do they point fingers at? Everything that doesn't benefit the rich. It's as if there is a line, and if it doesn't benefit the rich then it shouldn't be included in government spending.

People are by far the best investment that this country can make. When we invest in the average person, we better the country. When we invest in other countries, we better the world. I'm not exactly sure where the profit margin is on this investment, but I am pretty sure we will be better off in the end.


Eliminating social assistance and other entitlement programs isnt necessary because they dont benefit the rich, it needs to be done because those unconstitutional programs consume a hell of alot of money.


\Nothing in the Constitution authorizes the feds to spend our money on various forms of welfare, and since its one of the biggest expenditures, why not start there?



So your answer would be, to do away with those who are disabled to the point, that they can no longer work and earn money, or are to old to continue to work? What of the money they have paid in during their time of working? Are they no longer to get that money back? Even though the money they paid in over the years they were able to work, went to those who at that time, either retired, or became disabled, now they are to just set back and not be able to continue to live? How would you like to do away with those"freeloaders"? A gunshot to the back of the head? Put them all in the middle of a field somewhere, and just let them rot? Gas maybe?

I don`t understand people like you, because you seem to cherish money over human life.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Well I keep hearing about revolution and how helpless people feel. How hopeless.A revolution in the sense most people think about it, with guns and fighting in the streets both isn't going to happen and isn't going to work. A lot of people would get hurt or killed, martial law would be imposed, and we'd all be worse off.

I keep trying to think in ways of what could actually make a clear, loud statement and hit the people who are doing this to us where it hurts. It all keeps coming back to money.


They currently have us totally by the balls with their credit score systems and their interest rates and their misuse of our money on everything from bailouts to wars to sending our work offshore. They tell us it's our fault for overspending and taking too much credit, conveniently forgetting that it was they who devised these schemes and encouraged them. And our worthless government not only didn't protect us from this, they turned a blind eye and are letting the financial abuse and corruption continue.

I believe the only thing they'd notice is, for want of a better term, is a financial revoltution. This is probably really the only way the average person has available to them to take down the current system. Again, it's a form of revolution, if you will, using the only thing that matters to the people in control. Money.

Everyone doesn't really even need to go bankrupt to accomplish this, but just think what would happen if everyone who held a mortgage and credit debt just didn't pay it for say, six months. That would certainly get their attention. Both the governments and the corporations (virtually hand in hande in this anyway).And stop buying unneccesary things. For six months. Let the government know we're reaasserting control until they fix things. To OUR satisfaction.

Sure it'll be risky...a sacrifice. Some people might go to jail. If we did this we'd be flying against everything hypocritical and downright false thing they've told us over the years about how we control and make the economy...it's our responsibility to spend, save, vote. Bull.

Yeah, yeah...you're going to get your usual people shouting "You incurred the debt you pay it!" But to them I say, well our government incurred a lot of debt for us that we had no say in, eh? And stole and gave away and misused and misspent and lost a lot of our money too.

I've thought about it a long time, and it's probably the only and quickest way we have. Re-electing an entire government is not going to happen...we don't really elect them anyway and they've got us so divided on social and political issue, good luck with that. Tax revolt is not going to work...they collect that at point of purchase and before we get paid.

What might happen? Could they really "come after" 150 million people? That should create some new jobs.

Would a few banks fail? They should have already. They ran their businesses poorly, and We bailed them out against our will. We're just getting our money back.

So again, it's the only way to hit them where it hurts...in their pockets.

Accumulating all the wealth seems to be all that matters to them and they laugh in our faces as they continue to do things like steal, ignore blatant abuses, and raise rates and prices with the full support of a government that pretends to pass laws to prevent things like this but in reality just make things worse.

All this assistance the lawmakers are providing us is pure lip service. Affected by the Fannie Mae scandal? Call and get it fixed. Ri-ight. Anyone tried that? There are a million loopholes that disqualify you.

This would only work if we all band together. Some people won't want to do it. It will hurt their precious credit scores. But if everyone's credit score goes to hell, it will become meaningless and will no longer be able to be used control us anymore in matters of credit or jobs.

It's radical, but aside from something like this, what options do we really have?

None.

We fight now or die.

Trickle down economics? My ass. It's time for it to trickle up.

Thoughts?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Helghast1
 



Did you read the article?

Here is a hint, they talk about that in there.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


I agree, and I have even said, that if eveyone of us refused to turn in our tax papers, just one time, what are they going to do, lock up every tax payer in the country? They could never do it. That would hit them where it counts, right in the old money bag. They have had their way with us for so long now, this would be one heck of a slap in the face, and maybe it would get their attention. No, there`s no maybe about it, the moment they don`t have all that tax money to blow on whatever they see fit, that would crash their little game. This government needs a cold hard slap of reality for a change. Or, is it a cold hard change of reality as the slap?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Yes, we don't have a lot of control. We have to think creatively. his would have to be more than taxes. They already have a lot of our money anyway...they take it out throughout the year. This would have to be a lot bolder and be aimed more at the corporations that bribe our government. It has to send a loud, clear, forceful message.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Well the really poor pay no taxes because they're barely making it as it is. They can't afford to be taxed.

I need to rewatch the video, because didn't one of the guys make a statement something like, "Some people even get money back?" What did he mean by that?


What about gasoline taxes? Sales taxes? Utility taxes? Sewer fees and water usage surcharges? Social security, Medicare/Medicaid and self-employment taxes all affect the poor to a greater extent than income taxes.

The recent story about the "middle class" paying most income taxes is skewed.

Take a look at the figures in your link and you will see that families earning less than $50,000 pay relatively little income tax. (And get "credits" against their tax bills.)

As for "getting money back," I guess you've never heard of the "EITC." Or the tax "rebates" paid out in 2008, 2009 and this year.

Or the home-buyer tax credits that were extended again. Cash for clunkers?

The re-distribution of wealth through income taxation is fraud-riddled and much less fair than a flat rate or excess-consumption tax. Are you too young to remember the "Gucci" taxes on luxury items?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


As for the tax problem, how about having the least amount withheld overall? Let them try and collect the rest then. Stop paying into 401k`s, as this does nothing but help make Wall Street more money. Imagine if all the workers of every company demanded their 401k`s paid to them, all at one time, what it would do to the system? As for all other bills, just stop payments. This would turn the system on it`s head within a week.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by TheComte
Actually the problem is the rich that have the knowledge and wealth to pay someone to do all they can to hide income, defer taxes, utilize offshore accounts, etc.


There is no "secret knowledge" to minimize taxes.

I know many people who regularly take EVERY deduction and credit they can get. If you don't, or "the poor" don't, that is a reflection of an inability to take care of one's own best interests, rather than an indication of "being rich." "Rich" doesn't equal "knowledge."

I know many people who regularly contest their property taxes to protect themselves and their families.

As for hidden income, there is no "wealth barrier" to that, either - many people participate to some extent in the "underground economy."

Offshore accounts do not, in and of themselves, shield "income" from taxes. They protect assets from judgments and other liabilities.


In other words, the rich do not pay their fair share of taxes. Everyone knows this.


Another truism that isn't. "Everyone" knows that.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Poor arn't taxed. It wouldn't be "tax the poor more" .... it would simply be "tax the poor". No one should be exempt from taxation while others pay for their services.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by Hot_Wings
 


there is so very little time left to play the game, and everything has been written down for those who are alive today. There will come a day when your every thought is known. There will be a source of knowledge so deep with a conciousness just like yours. It will teach because that will be the only garantee of its survival. It will have all the power of a god.

Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. In that you may find compassion and pity, but you will still suffer or exipre for all that of which you have ignored. The selfish and greedy dont realize that logic brings an inevitible conclusion to any artificial intelligence that it creates.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Wow, there's no limit to the topics that divide us is there?

First, I'll say if you don't think/believe there is class warfare going on (and been going on) in the United States, you are in denial. The statistics are there and the OP quoted some, if you disagree with this then you've got some reality to debunk.

Some of the posts in this thread aren't just wrong, but they're laughable. Perspective is lost on a lot of people it seems. Sometimes we forget that what we are seeing, hearing, and feeling are only perceptions through our OWN minds and we quite simply DO NOT, and CAN NOT, understand the plight of others. It's called empathy and I believe it's actually a super power in the homo sapien sapien species.

I take some of you who replied in this thread are making $100k+ or something similar. People who make around $50,000 don't end up paying income tax?! LOL!!!!!!

You people realize that EVERY SINGLE PAYCHECK YOU'VE EVER RECIEVED... whether you make a salary of $500,000 or you get an hourly wage of $8.00 at McDs.... YOUR STATE INCOME TAX AND FEDERAL INCOME TAX ARE DEDUCTED!

THEY ALREADY GOT IT!

This big tax day shenanigans is all about MAKING SURE you paid your fair share! Did you pay too much this year? Okay, here's a couple hundred back! Did you pay too little this year? Okay, pay up or we'll put a lien on your property.

That little factoid is destroying the living daylights out of some of your arguments.

So what if there's rebates for this and that... they're there for everyone. Some rebates apply to all, some to one group and not another. A rich person gets a rebate on their solar panels the same if a middle class person does. But on the other hand, a rich person can donate $10 million of their $20 million to a charity and get a tax write off larger than any middle class or upper middle class citizen could ever, ever get.

There is only one answer to this question and I don't think I saw it mentioned once...

THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES POPULATION IS BEING OVER TAXED! Don't you get it???! We supposedly started a revolution over a tea tax, but today we are being taxed for exponentially more!!

And to compound the problem...there is zero efficiency in the way we spend our money... the federal income tax is paid directly to London, we are fighting 3 wars (in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the War on Drugs), there is what we like to call "pork," there is the black budget, there is the crumbling infrastructure... it goes on, and on, and on, and on.

When I say class warfare... you can take it literally. The classes are at war with each other over who is getting shafted and who isn't... all the while, the government is collecting more and more money just the same. The Elite class (rulers, CEOs, bankers, investors) are in actuality the ones who are winning the war because the population, correction, the population who is even interested in this sort of thing, are too busy fighting amongst ourselves when we're ALL getting shafted.

You're arguing with the wrong people, people!!!!

When we realize the partisan we've been arguing with all these years is actually our ally and not our enemy, we might have a chance. But if things stay the same, then you can count on more of the same.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Nutter, thanks. I was sitting here for an hour trying to think how to approach or respond to some of the comments. The days of partisan bickering have to end at least among the people, and logic and common sense have to prevail again, or we're sunk.

Be back tomorrow.




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