Conspiracy: The Rapture Doctrine

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posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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The Rapture Doctrine
(Bold Text Mine)

The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or "catching away" was an important part of Darby's teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the "rapture" had made its way to the United States.

In the late 1800's, America was fertile ground for a wide variety of religious extremists, most notably the Adventist movements. These movements, which produced new denominations, sects, and cults, almost always had as one of their chief tenets the belief that Christ was going to return to earth "very soon" and that they could tell you when. As the eschatological and apocalyptic teachings of the Plymouth Brethren entered this mix of religious fervor, some of their teachings became a permanent fixture within the newly formed sects. Among the many heresies of the "brethren" the Rapture was the most successful. It even went on to affect millions of people in denominations which had not yet been formed. Two examples of this are the Assemblies of God and the United Pentecostal Church which were not founded until early in the 20th century. At about this same time the Rapture made its way into the theology of the Southern Baptist Church, which had not previously known of the teaching.

Today, prophecy pundits and "end-time" revivalists preach the Rapture as if it were established dogma from the time of Christ until the present. The truth is that the first historical reference to the Rapture doctrine comes from the Plymouth Brethren. Not only is the Rapture not found in the teachings of the Church, but even "end-time" heretics throughout the centuries never dreamed of proposing such a novel idea. For example, the 4th century Montanists, who preached both pre-millenialism and that they knew when Christ would return, never ventured so far as to create another 2nd coming of the Lord in a secret rapture.

www.onearthasinheaven.com...

Paul speaks of our being "changed"
(See 1Cor:15:51)
That could mean changes in DNA, or a host of other things altogether.

He also speaks of our mortal bodies "putting on immortality". (See 1Cor.15:53)
This obviously means we are dead, removed from the human container and in Spirit, for are we not Immortal?

Let us look at what TPTB has planned for this....

PROJECT BLUE BEAM


Holographic images are based on nearly identical signals combining to produce an image or hologram with deep perspective which is equally applicable to acoustic ELF, VLF and LF waves and optical phenomena. Specifically, the show will consist of multiple holographic images to different parts of the world, each receiving a different image according to the specific national, regional religion. Not a single area will be excluded. With computer animation and sounds appearing to emanate from the very depths of space, astonished ardent followers of the various creeds will witness their own returned messaihs in convincing lifelike reality. Then the projections of Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah, Krishna, etc., will merge into one after correct explanations of the mysteries and revelations will have been disclosed. This one god will, in fact, be the antichrist, who will explain that the various scriptures have been misunderstood and misinterpreted, and that the religions of old are responsible for turning brother against brother, and nation against nation, therefore old religions must be abolished to make way for the new age new world religion, representing the one god antichrist they see before them.

Naturally, this superbly staged falsification will result in dissolved social and religious disorder on a grand scale, each nation blaming the other for the deception, setting loose millions of programmed religious fanatics through demonic possession on a scale never witnessed before.

www.thewatcherfiles.com...

Related:
educate-yourself.org...

There are may lies in the Bible, here is just one of the biggest ones:
"God is one Person, and His name is Jesus Christ."

Here is another one:
That the Bible is inspired only in "the original manuscripts"; the second maintains that the Bible is inspired only in "the original languages." And there are more, many more. It is not merely Christ, divine son of God, that is an article of faith, but also the so-called "Jesus of history".
Where in history is Jesus? Even Titus Flavius Josephus, the Ancient Jewish historian had little to say, and most of that is not believed. Ignorance of science, and ignorance of history, are the two great bulwarks of religious error.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors
www.infidels.org...

The Facts:

Jesus of Nazareth and the Gospel story cannot be found in Christian writings earlier than the Gospels, the first of which (Mark) was composed only in the late first century.

The Lost City
www.jesusneverexisted.com...

There is no non-Christian record of Jesus before the second century. References in Flavius Josephus (end of the first century) can be dismissed as later Christian insertions.

PROBLEMS WITH CLAIMS FOR JESUS’ HISTORICITY
www.i4m.com...

The early apostles, such as Paul and Hebrews, speak of their Christ Jesus as a spiritual, heavenly being revealed by God through scripture, and do not equate him with a recent historical man. Paul is part of a new ‘salvation’ movement acting on revelation from the Spirit.

The pagan ‘mystery cults’ of the period worshiped savior deities who had performed salvific acts which took place in the supernatural/mythical world, not
on earth or in history. Paul’s Christ shares many features with these deities.

Was there a Jesus? Of course there was a Jesus – many!
www.jesusneverexisted.com...

The Gospels are not historical events, but constructed through a process of ‘midrash,’ a Jewish method of reworking old biblical passages and tales to reflect new beliefs. The story of Jesus’ trial and crucifixion is a pastiche of verses from scripture.

The "Q" Document, a collection extracted from Matthew and Luke, made no reference to a death and resurrection, and can be shown to have had no Jesus at its roots: roots which were ultimately non-Jewish. Well into the second century, many Christian documents lack or reject the notion of a human man as an element of their faith. Only gradually did the Jesus of Nazareth portrayed in the Gospels come to be accepted as historical. We don’t know the date of his birth--it was certainly not December 25 in the Year One. Nor do we know for certain where he was born, for his supposed birthplace did not exist at the time.

Not only did Jesus himself write nothing, but the attribution of the gospels to his disciples did not occur until the late first century at the earliest. Who here can remember what your wife/husband said three days ago? See what i mean? And Christians will have you believe that the red letters in the N.T. are the actual words of Christ himself.

Now Jesus was a Jew, right? Then why don't the Jewish People believe in Jesus as the Messiah?

Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah because:

A. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
B. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
C. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.

The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew word "Mashiach", which means "Anointed." It usually refers to a person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3)

Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be referred to as "an anointed one" (a Mashiach or a Messiah). The word means "Anointed One." As with oil, as in Biblical times.

Folks, you have been lied to, and anyone can not use the Internet to find truth. there is not going to be a Rapture of Good Christian Souls, that was made up. And which Jesus did you say was coming back to "save" you, dear Christian? There are many, as there are many gods, one needs to choose one, I suppose, if one is going to call on one.

Are you on a string pulled along by the power of religion?
Do you believe in a heavenly kingdom where your earthly woes will be replaced by eternal bliss? If the devil is real how does one account for this prophecy from God:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I God do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

If God is the maker of evil then what role does the devil play, if he exists? Why would God create something that could usurp his authority and overthrow Heaven? Your concepts of God, Heaven, Hell, the Devil, Angels and Saints come from mythology and recycled Egyptian Sun worship through the modern religions, mainly that of the Catholic Church.

Remember the Crusades, the Witch hunts, the Inquisition, the persecution of indigenous people, the genocide of American Indian Tribes, African and other natives and the list goes on. Remember too the burning alive of those who were deemed to be enemies of the Church by Popes, Bishops and even Queen Mary of England. The Burning times meant terrible death for one million people, mostly women. but then, you have labeled women as evil, haven't you? Remember that original sin now!
Good old boy Adam would never listen to the Serpent, now would he? Church hierarchy claims [it] has the keys to Heaven and that no one can enter unless they believe in Jesus Christ. It claims these things on the ground of one Jesus Christ who has never been proven to exist, except in the New Testament written by its own. The Roman Piso Family.

WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?
www.angelfire.com...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

culturalvision.net...




posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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Thanks mate.

This should make for an interesting read...



I didn't realize the Rapture scenario was created this late in history.

Absolute carnage... making up teachings out of nothing, to scare us into following. Attach it to the word of God and it spreads like wildfire.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


You have put a lot of work into this.I am too tired
right now to read this.Star and flag and goodnight!



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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I think most people believe in Jesus because they were raised in that invironment, giving up something so magical feeling is hard to do. Education and a desire to seek the truth can help to see through the fog. There is a God, but u can't get to him through Jesus, Mohammet or anyone else.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench


Actually the rapture has been happening. Rapture literally means "to rape" and nothing does that better then a little wooden man on a little wooden cross.

Jesus warned of his own image. You can't be beginning and end with out being Christ and Anti-Christ in one package....and that is the big trick....It's a message to folk stating this...What you reap, is what you sow. What you do, is done forever and can not be changed, but while you have breath flowing from one generation to another, you are alive to forge new paths, in new bodies...generation to generation.

Consume that blood, that final breath in your body, if you be the end, then you are the end. All you can truly abominate is the life, that is to not send it forward in deed (which is truth), nor in seed (which is witness of the truth) and in doing so will leave your "house"(surname) desolate.

peace



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by aboxoftrix
I think most people believe in Jesus because they were raised in that invironment, giving up something so magical feeling is hard to do. Education and a desire to seek the truth can help to see through the fog. There is a God, but u can't get to him through Jesus, Mohammet or anyone else.


Yes, I hear you, we are on the same page here. I was just talking about this with my son. With all of the information out there, why do people believe in things that are not true? Conditioned that way. Tell a lie enough, people come to believe it.

I have added you as a friend, aboxoftrix.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by aboxoftrix
I think most people believe in Jesus because they were raised in that invironment, giving up something so magical feeling is hard to do. Education and a desire to seek the truth can help to see through the fog. There is a God, but u can't get to him through Jesus, Mohammet or anyone else.


Yes, I hear you, we are on the same page here. I was just talking about this with my son. With all of the information out there, why do people believe in things that are not true? Conditioned that way. Tell a lie enough, people come to believe it.

I have added you as a friend, aboxoftrix.


Actually Jesus is the only way to God but not for the reasons one might think.

As Aboxoftrix has just said "Why do people believe in things that are not true?"

The man of Jesus plays no bearing on any individual except for people named Jesus, but the Name of Jesus, though not recognized is your only way to "salvation" which is not what one might think salvation to be.

So let's not believe in untrue things. If playing by the God of the bible's rules, one man couldn't levy the load of all men as God is Just. Just does not mean Good, rather just means Level, even, strait so by encompassing Good and Bad because Good and Bad is Knowledge and knowledge can only be had by life, because if you're dead, you don't know anything.

Jesus the name is important and has it's saving quality IN the name. Ever heard that before "IN MY NAME"?

My name for instance is Aaron. Some may know me by that, most do not, but even still less people know what my name means. Almost everyone I've ever talked too, has NO IDEA what Jesus means, but if they did, evangelism would be over today.

So what is it? Jesus Name? First it is an action. The word is literally an action, not a person place or thing. Knowing this action is what literally saves you and connects you to God, though you stand in God's presence daily.

The name Jesus means..."Self existent Salvation", an action or "spirit" of prophesy....as spirit just means breath. This name, though not said correctly in english lest people know what it actually means to be saved, which is only made official by no one but you full filling the name so to "Self exist".

All people are begotten once, and only once making everyone the only begotten....



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 07:37 AM
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just remember to tell this guy He's not real when you meet him, the one whose AUDIBLE voice I heard as if sitting beside me on the left one night as soon as I had begun to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT (that a chick from the Plains left on the bar a few days earlier) that said-my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish-AWESTRUCK I stood to my feet (not being raised "churched" or knowing the scriptures) and said yes Lord and read this years later-

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-John5.25

and/or the angel I had seen when I was @13ish he was powerful looking, bright white glowing all over like lightning wings and all even the eyes- that I watched fly in and land on the roof across the street, walked to the edge then suddenly turned and looked directly at me, frightened I ducked down and when peeked back up he was flying back the direction he come from and this scripture described much the same-

for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.-Matt28



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by No King but Jesus
just remember to tell this guy He's not real when you meet him, the one whose AUDIBLE voice I heard as if sitting beside me on the left one night as soon as I had begun to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT (that a chick from the Plains left on the bar a few days earlier) that said-my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish-AWESTRUCK I stood to my feet (not being raised "churched" or knowing the scriptures) and said yes Lord and read this years later-


You know, i have heard this from quite a few Christians who confirm to me that they talk to Jesus on a daily basis. That is all well and fine. Jesus has never spoken to me, and if he were to, I would have some questions for him, know what I mean? Why is it that when a person hears Jesus talking in his/her head, that is alright, but if someone else hears a voice in his/her head it's schizophrenia? Why is when I tell a Christian that I sometimes speak to ET being that I can hear, touch, and feel, I am told that is not an alien, it is Satan's Demon Army? Also, you all talk a great deal about "Sin." Do you know the origin of the word, and the ancient usage of the word? I believe Sin was a Babylonian Moon God whom Yahweh hated and tried to destroy. Here is logic.... according to you. Jesus died for my sins, in that a sin in this usage means an act against God's rules. So Jesus payed for my sins by dyingI still have to seek out Jesus and ask again for the same thing over? I thought he payed for my sins? guess not.


I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-John5.25


A truth to one is a lie to another. If I and thousands of others can see and hear the dead, then they are not really dead, are they? I have seen and spoken to my Grandfather, who "died" in 1964, when I was 7, and my Father, who "died" in 1992. Both have told me of the place they are, and it is not what you might think it is. There are secrets of the "Light" that not too many know. The Light will send you anywhere you want. It is a machine, not a Deity.

I have to ask, did you take in the part of my post about the Rapture being a falsehood? And did it occur to you that were there is one lie, there are probably more? Did you know the Catholic church has admitted 14 plagiarisms in the bible, but will not say which ones?
I own three versions of the Bible. A King James Version (KJV), a New King James Version (NKJV), and a New International Version (NIV). I also own a copy of the Koran. I find them quite amusing to read, and if one does read them, then that person will have a lot of unanswered questions. I find it funny how these books promote the stories they tell as "Truth" when they are in fact nothing more than lies designed to control us, and give us a false sense of comfort. Is there any truth to the idea that if you do not accept "Jesus Christ" as your "Lord and Savior" that you will burn forever in a Hell? And if there is, how could a perfect and all loving God be so shallow and unjust? This sounds more like something a corrupt political group would invent to frighten people, and force into believing something their common sense would otherwise deny. And we all know the Holy Roman Church had an agenda, don't we? The Torah was before the Bible, no? Whey do the two not agree? Why doesn't the Bible agree with the Koran? Divide and conquer is a tactic used for a great many years, because it works every time. What divides mankind/womankind anyway? Three things:
Religion (Christian-Wiccan-Muslim-Catholic)
Politics (Democrat-Republican-Tea Party)
Race (Black-White-Latin-Asian)
Sex (Men-Women-Gays)
Every situation that comes along, one of these defines who we are to others.
We hate because of one or more of these, we vote and practice politics according to one or the other, we think our God is the only one out there; and all of the other people's Gods and Goddesses are simply demons in disguise! Isn't that what these wars are really about? Yahweh -vs- Allah?
What happened to the Old, the Elder Gods? did they simply go away? Did Yahweh kill them all?

Isn't it time to put aside our differences in these three simple matters for awhile, politics, religion, and race, and see if the world does not change right before our eyes?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.-2Cor5.19

having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.-Col2.14

Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.-Heb9.26

the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.-Heb8.6

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.-John15.22

What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.-Gal3.19

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son-Heb1.5

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.-1Cor15.45

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.-Rom3.21

For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.-Gal3.21

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.-Rom10.4

Once I was alive apart from law-Rom7.9

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.-Gal5.1

because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.-Rom4.15

Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there—false ones, really—who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations.-Gal2.4(NLT)

For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?-1Cor10.29

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.-2Cor3.17

The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."-Gal5.14

whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death-Prov8.36

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.-Is60.12

"Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.-Luke11.17

this happened as proof-They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."-Luke19.44

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.-2Cor5.14

for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."-Eph5.14

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!-2Cor5.17

to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.-Rom4.5



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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While I completely agree, that the Rapture Theory, is babel induced and inspired by satanic notions, I can not, as you obvious concluded, it is a problem that is related to the Bible, and it's Biblical Teachings.


Originally posted by autowrench
There are may lies in the Bible, here is just one of the biggest ones:
"God is one Person, and His name is Jesus Christ."


Show me ANYWHERE, in the King James 1611 Bible, that indicates this in just so many words.


Here is another one: ......Where in history is Jesus?


What history would you expect? Jewish records about a Man who didn't even live in the region?

What evidence does the BIBLE even give to support Jesus lived in Nazereth. None my friend, so seeking insight and such from other Jewish, or Arab sources is a stretch at best.

I would suggest a book by E. Raymond Capt called the Traditions of Glastonbury. There is more evidence to support a Child Name Jesus, came to the Isles with his Mother Mary, and Joseph, as well as his Uncle, Joseph of Aramethia, who operated Tin Mines in England, and where records of this are clear. There is much lore of a young Jesus in Glastonbury, with Coat of Arms on Pub's displaying a Young Lad arriving via a Lauch with his Uncle, Joseph. Sayings, Songs, as well as the Glastonbury Abbey, which is storied to be the first Church ever created, built by Jesus himself, for his Mother, who is buried, (along with a few apostles) on the Site.

A short example of some of Capts theories

Now I am not suggesting he lived there exculsivily, since the greeters of Cortez, make it clear he was in the Americas at some point as well.

No, you again, as with your first claim, suggest a lie is somehow indicated SCRIPTURALLY, when this is not the case at all.


Ignorance of science, and ignorance of history, are the two great bulwarks of religious error.


Here, I agree. RELIGIOUS error has inspired ignorance of Science and History.

But your statement and claim previously offered direct your misgivings to the Bible Itself. The Bible and Science, and for the most part, History are testements to eachother. They are not in conflict with each other. But you are correct, that Religion is. Religion is not the Bible. Religion is a MAN INSPIRED CREATION which is constrewed to regulate and manipulate scripture to twist and distort the word of God to secure desired results, aka the Rapture theory.

Paul himself clearly even seem this in his second letter to the Thessilonians. The Second Chapter is quite clear.


002:001 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
002:002 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


Pauls is noting that here there is already a problem. Somehow the followers here have started to believe Christ's return is soon. The following clearly tells us WHEN Christ will return



002:003 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
002:004 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The Antichrist, will stand in the Temple, on the Temple Mount, and cease the Sacrafice, claiming he is Jesus.

This is the "trigger" that sets the Return of Christ, and "that Gathering".


002:005 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
002:006 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
002:007 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
002:008 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
002:009 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
002:010 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


Again, it is clear, the Return is after the Antichrist, and this is when the Follwers will gather to be with God.

Not before, as some lunatic for the 1800's babeled on about.


Now Jesus was a Jew, right? Then why don't the Jewish People believe in Jesus as the Messiah?


Simple. He did not come to defeat an Earthly Power, (i.e. The Romans). He came to defeat Death, which is still lost upon the "Jew" either thru the "Ignorance is Bliss" mindset, or in efforts to eliminate any feeling of Guilt they may harbour due to their part, in the Manner inwhich the Messiah was killed. (Actully they had not much to due with the matter as a whole, since Christ was killed via ROMAN MEANS).


Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah because:


Because the Devils of Rome did not get purged from the Sands of Israel, and sent to the homeland in Body Bags.


I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I God do all these things. Isaiah 45:7


Now, since you have previously offered examples of how the Doctrines, Dogmas and Theologies of Religious sects have twisted scripture, I trust you are not also wishing to do so here.

Evil, utilized in Isaiah 45:7 is an interesting word, with an interesting root.


7451 ra` rah from 7489; bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral):-- adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong. (Incl. feminine raaah; as adjective or noun.).


Ask the Inhabitants of Sodom, and they would, if they could, confirm this.
Ask the Neighbours of Noah, and they would, if they could, confirm this.
Ask the Inhabitants of Jericho, and they would, if they could, confirm this
Ask Pharoh's Army, and they would, if they could, confirm this.

Evil, as opted by the Translators is not quite as black and white as we suggest it is today.

Evil is the result of not obeying GOD's Laws. It is the manifestation of reaping what one sows, so to speak.

It is not the premise that GOD created the Demon's, which to this day, possess people and things. He did not create the Cancer that takes friends and family at an unprecidented rate.

I trust you get what I mean.

I would also like to offer something to think about. Egypt is noted within this chapter 45 of Isaiah. Strange how "Both" Egypt and "Ra" are used. Even the Rood from which Ra comes flows in a similar stream.


7489 ra`a` raw-ah' a primitive root; properly, to spoil (literally, by breaking to pieces); figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing, i.e. bad (physically, socially or morally):--afflict, associate selves (by mistake for 7462), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by mistake for 7462), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.


As for the following, I trust this becomes clear for you now.


If God is the maker of evil then what role does the devil play, if he exists? Why would God create something that could usurp his authority and overthrow Heaven?


You see, Satan, (aka The Devil) did nothing in the events I noted above. Sodom, Jeircho, Noah's Neightbours, and the Pharoh's Army all experienced the Chastizment of GOD, which had NOTHING to do with Evil, as inspired by the Devil.

It's two seperate things, which you have confused as one and the same.


Your concepts of God, Heaven, Hell, the Devil, Angels and Saints come from mythology and recycled Egyptian Sun worship through the modern religions, mainly that of the Catholic Church.


I would argue this, but only through a different perspective.

Our concept of GOD, Heaven, and the Angels come from the Original form of worship established on the 6th Day. Our Concepts of Hell and the Devil, come through the twisting of Satan and the Fallen. As does the Origins of the Pagan Faiths. Twisted and manipulated rites confused enough to seemingly remain "close" to the Original Form, yet always viewed as distinct and different, despite being the same as usual all in all

Well it's been nice chatting with you.

Have a good day

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by No King but Jesus
 


I welcome discussion with you, No King but Jesus, but I digress here. What I want to hear is what you think about these concepts and theories you present, in a second hand manner...by posting Bible quotes over and over. Please, some of your own thoughts? Surely you are not so brainwashed by church dogma that you haven't thought about these questions before?
There is no such thing as Blind Faith, and the KJ Bible is not the only book in the world, even of the same time period, and there are many that were written before the Biblical period.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 



Originally posted by autowrench
The Rapture Doctrine
(Bold Text Mine)

The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or "catching away" was an important part of Darby's teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the "rapture" had made its way to the United States.



Church fathers who taught the doctrine of imminency and the rapture:

Papias (60-130)

Clement of Rome (90-100)

The Sherpherd of Hermas (96-150)

Ignatius of Antioch (98-117)

Barnabas (100)

The Didache (100-160)

Justin Martyr (110-165)

The Epistle of Barnabas (117-138)

Irenaeus (120-202)

Tertullian (145-220)

Hippolytus (185-236)

Cyprian (200-250)

Lactantius (260-330)


Victorinus ( Well known by 270 and died in 303 A.D.)
Victorinus wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation. In one place he made an interesting statement that reflects his idea that the church would be removed prior to the tribulation. Of course his ideas were not systematic, and some will argue that he contradicts himself in other places, which may very well be true. But even with such an admission it still serves us well to see that early in the church history someone taught in some sense that God's church could escape the tribulation period by being removed from the earth. His commentary notes in Revelation 6:14 indicate a pre-trib reference of some sort:
"And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up." For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. "And every mountain and the islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid persecution. Source


Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373)
"Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. Source

Sorry, but the idea that Darby came up with the rapture on his own is not necessarily true. During the Medieval Church age, Origen and Augustine were preaching amillennialism and that doctrine became the doctrine of the RCC. And you know what happened to those who disagreed with the RCC. Darby re-discovered an old church doctrine. He did not create a new one.

I do agree with you on the Project Blue Beam, though. I think Tim La Haye set up a bunch of people to believe it when this takes place.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.-Rev21.14

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that VERY word which I spoke-John12.48

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.-Luke9.26

"I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.'-Jer23.20

If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,
19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust-Job4

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life-John6.63

The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.-Heb1.3

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.-Heb4.12

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.-1Thess4.16

so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.-Heb9.28

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.-Matt26.63

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.-Rom8.29

born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.-1Pet1.23

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.-Luke21.33

Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "-Matt4.4

the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God-1Pet2.4



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by No King but Jesus
 


The way
The Truth
The Life

#1 The way--Procreation...Established Day 1...Never Changing...Generation To Generation....."Self existent Salvation" which is what you are saying when you say Jesus, just like when you say Satan you are saying Adversary...not a being, but a "Role".

#2 The Truth--God could not condemn or judge you as wrong based on things you don't understand therefor there is no truth in "supernatural" as people deal with natural and know it as truth. Truth is known always amongst the living as only the living can affect truth, thus making one a member of the "living God". "With a man it is impossible, not so for God, with God all things are possible"....Why? Because God's "Body" never stops renewing itself thus allowing for forgetting sin, which isn't anything more then letting the life die (ie, not Procreating). Only the father, can know the son, and only the son can know the father...(upon becoming him...A father).

#3 The life--Self explainitory. Again, God judges you on what you know, not what you don't know. This life you know, is the only life you know which again is bigger then you. The life is worth more then the body because only the life can be passed over to a new generation. The life is in the body, but the body houses the life therefore.....Pro "CREATION"....is the only thing that will "save" anyone. Generation to Generation for ever.

peace



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


Jesus Christ has come in the flesh-1John4.2

It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead-Acts4.10

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."-Matt1.21

Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read:|sc JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.-John19.19

to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness-Rom4.5

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.-2Cor3.17

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.-Heb4

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.-1John4.10

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.-Col1.15

the firstborn among many brothers.-Rom8.29

it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.-Rom9.8

children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.-John1.13

what counts is a new creation.-Gal6.15

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all-Col3.11



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by No King but Jesus
 


You were just asked to add your own thoughts.... what are you on, biblical Autopilot.

Why do Fundies always have to quote scripture, they're like ATMs (Automatic Talking Machines)

The Lord is my Shepard........ because we're stupid Sheep!



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Shane
 




Originally posted by autowrench
There are may lies in the Bible, here is just one of the biggest ones:
"God is one Person, and His name is Jesus Christ."



Show me ANYWHERE, in the King James 1611 Bible, that indicates this in just so many words.


I do stand corrected, I meant to say "Biblical Teachings" instead of just "Bible." But that aside, most any Christian would swear to that, for the teachings of Christianity are that it's the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost meaning soul, so I reckon if one is not a Christian, then he or she has no soul, and could be considered to be soulless. Actually, I have been told that very thing. No, it doesn't say that in so many words, but if you read betwween the lines of the Roman Family Piso's New Testament, it is there.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Village Idiot
 


fitting name -the scriptures say it best are'nt they in plain English? do you understand English? you can read it right?

"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."-Luke16.13



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 



Jesus Christ has come in the flesh-1John4.2


Correct,

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.




It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead-Acts4.10



Correct,

"It is BY THE NAME Jesus Christ of Nazareth"

First understand in truth this parable...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

The name:

yeh-ho-shoo-'ah
From H3068 and H3467; Jehovah-saved;
Cognate of Jehovah
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist,


First name is "to exist saved". This is the rendering of his name and what is being said. This is an action. God HONORS action and exists in the praise of his people. God belongs to no man, but all belong to him. God is life.

Second Name:

G5547
Χριστός
Christos
khris-tos'
From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: - Christ.
G5548
χρίω
chriō
khree'-o
Probably akin to G5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, that is, (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service: - anoint.


The oil of anointing is called "Shemen" oil from the rendering of fat. Shemen is again the parable for Semen ,the procreative force from the father.


Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


Residence name/Last name:


G3478
Ναζαρέθ / Ναζαρέτ
Nazareth / Nazaret
Thayer Definition:
Nazareth = “the guarded one”


Thus the full rendering in which you are to be saved.

"To exist saved rubbed in (shemen) oil in the guarded one"

"Forbid not the children to come unto me"

This is why it is commanded that a man must leave his mother and father and cling inside of the woman of him and the two shall become one flesh...a new creation.

Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Son 8:7 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Peace





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