Technological increases of alien civilizations

There is a big problem with us knowing how advanced alien technology might be.

It is our technology which is the problem.

We are basing our rate of technological increase and assuming it is equal to theirs.

How do we know that at this time alien cultures were FAR more advanced than ours?

We don't. We have been here for the blink of an eye, in the cosmic scale, and we are this advanced.

If aliens were much more successful at technological increases then we wouldn't be able to comprehend what they had if it they had been here just as long as we have, much less an alien race that is millions of years ahead of us.

We are on a biased system.

Now over time aliens have probably increased technological capabilities greatly over short periods of time.

So would anyone like to contribute what their technology might be if the were to be say 100,000 years old?


[edit on 26-6-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]

Perhaps they have learnt to tap into the fabric of time and space itself. Perhaps they understand that Hyperspace is not a place but a state of being and can instantaneously go anywhere in the universe merely by thinking it?

I have always found subjects such as this interesting...

IMO, as any species begins to evolve it will reach a point where
instinct is overtaken by intelligence. This is an important hurdle,
especially if you take us as an example.

To me it seems like God's chess game.

If any life form can evolve and successfully cede survivalist instinct
to moral intelligence BEFORE they use up their available resources,
or foul their habitat to toxic limits, or annihilate themselves thru war...
then God wins. We Humans are at this critical juncture right now.

Now back to topic...


An alien civilization 100,000 years beyond our current age of technology
that survived this transition?

To make a comparison, imagine traveling just 1,000 years into our recent
past with present day technology. No army (then) on earth, would be able to
stand against a well-equipped, modern platoon. A box full of gadgets, such
as pens, lighters, watches etc, would fetch a king's ransom. In short what
we could do would appear as magic to our ancestors. And we have
accomplished this in 1/100 of the time you are referring to.

I would say the chances of encountering an alien species FAR in advance
of our technology is much more likely than encountering one anywhere near
our current stage of technology...and that is an understatement.

I would expect that any alien species 100,000 years in advance of us
could (and probably would) completely conceal themselves from our
scrutiny IF they decided to visit. I can see no clear reason why we should
fear, owing to my assumption that if they made it thru their own transition
from instinct to intellect, aggression would be a receding
quality of their culture.

In fact, I see no reason why they would make contact at all. If the Earth
had resources they needed, it is much more likely that they have already
visited our planet tens of thousand of years ago and taken them.

My greatest fear is that an advanced alien species would
see us as mere animals, much the same way we see horses and cows,
and would either view us as potential laborers, or as a source of
nutrition.

But I find it more likely, that they would see us as a curiosity, something
to be studied and watched...at least until the time that we have (hopefully)
made it thru our transition from instinct to intellect.

Until then, perhaps they will watch and occasionally reveal a little
of themselves to us as an amusement. Much the same way we tease
a cat with a lazed-pen.

I think I could type a book on this subject without getting bored, but
I'll leave it at that.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by rival]

probably aliens use AI to explore the universe, they dont even need to travel themselves, they just send a lot of good AI ... that can multiply themselves ... and thats it, they can explore everything

and it kind of explains if there are "aliens or weird ships" here ... probably just AI

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


Your observation that humanity has been advancing technologically for "the blink of an eye, in the cosmic scale" is very astute and I agree with you. Consequently, your question of what a civilization's technology might look like after 100,000 years is quite valid and interesting.

Approaching the question intelligently begins with a basic understanding of technology.

Technology is the practical application of knowledge that results in a particular capability. For instance, the technology utilized in our current method of space travel applies knowledge of thrust, gravity, aerodynamic, and many other phenomena.

Technological advancement occurs when new knowledge is obtained, which occurs through observation and is limited by perception. Thus, we could expect an advanced civilization to have significantly more advanced collective perception than us made manifest in 1) expanded attention, 2) thorough examination, and 3) exclusion of assumptions.

A civilization that has stood the test of time will have also recognized that the best technologies are those that result in greater survivability of its species and its members.

Physical survival consists of doing and doing requires energy; an advanced species would necessarily have developed energy technologies that don't have unwanted effects counter to survivability of living organisms (humanity has much to learn about this).

Bound by the same universe, we have much more in common with extraterrestrial civilizations than we might think. Communication is a critical area of technology for us and it is for them as well. Having solved the challenge of energy, an advanced civilization would have many technologies with the purpose of ensuring that what is intended to be sent is what arrives at its destination. The impetus of those technologies would be a through understanding of forces and how to manipulate them.

I wish that I could answer your question in more detail, but this is what I know to be true. Anything else would be conjecture and assumptions at best (again, a critical step for increasing ones perception). However, I don't think that this knowledge is useless; far from it! As humanity advances through the ages, so too will his knowledge. It will be critical to determine which resultant technologies are worth persuing.

Although humanity has made many strides, there is so much further to go. Currently, we possess a very dangerous technology without a workable defense. That defense will become necessary, soon. Remember, technology is much more than just the things you can touch.

Best,
Shane

Something happened on Earth during the last 100 years that made us take a huge leap forward,now this could be because we found or were given a
technology we could use and expand.Even at our exponential rate of advancement ,et could only be 100 maybe 200 years ahead of us .but they could also be younger than us and have been on a different path ,instead of concentrating on killing like humans they may have spent all their efforts in travel and exploration.Imagine if the human resources spent on weaponry was instead used on anti gravity/magnetic time travel etc what a different place earth would be.

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


Well Statistically, actually, they would be slower at advancing than us, not likely faster. Let me explain this odd statement.

The fact is that on this planet, we are outnumbered. And in terms of intelligence, we are again outnumbered, with species like Crows, Dolphins and apes all being pretty damn intelligent right bellow us. In fact, if we were to go extinct, it is very likely that in a few million years one of them would replace them. Thus, statistically, we are outnumbered.

BANG. zoom to many billions of years ago. The very first intelligence evolves whenever. It is likely a species that develops linearly rather than experientially. Humanity remains the only exponentially advancing species on Earth. So it is far more likely that something evolves intelligence that grows linear than exponentially.

What dos this mean of course? It means the species cannot advanced any other way than via trial and error.

You might be thinking this is a disablement. Nay! it is a benefit! Look at our own civilization. If we advanced linearly, we'd still be using bows and arrows. Which means we would be a ton more stable. Exponential growth makes a civilization highly unstable. That's why we as humans cannot have a civilization that lasts for more than a few hundred years. Thousand if you're lucky. A linearly advancing species could remain stable for tens of thousands of years.

Back to those early intelligent beings. They've now been around for a few million years, finally advancing to what we would call modern. With computers and other developments, they do accelerate a small amount, but they have yet to exponentially advance. They still advance slowly. A few more million years go by. Eventually, after some 100 million years, they reach the space age, with warp ships and everything. They have probably been living in the same society, the same civilization, from before written times. By this time, linear advancement has become an accepted part of life. They are slow. it gets them where they need to go. They do not have problems, and everyone is happy. They have essentially become like gods in a hundred million years.

Now lets go forward to the first exponentially advancing species from whenever. Because we see on Earth that exponential species have a ratio of some 1 to hundreds of millions, by the time this first species is born, the universe is already populated by linear species. They get onto the space stage in a few thousand years. The linear species are very interested in these beings. But these beings are very unstable, still at war with their own species. They fear this new thing. They have never experienced instability. They cannot help but feel afraid. The exponential species. explodes onto the scene. They probably break up into various nation sin space. Already they are not stable enough to remain one people. Eventually they will have war with the linear species. The linear species will have no choice but destruction of what they can only view as vermin. They do not exterminate them. Just knock them back into the stone age.


So that is the proof. It is likely aliens are slowly advancing, highly stable species.

We as humans should be fearful of space travel. God only knows who we will meet.


Personally I feel humanity has the perfect balance between stable and unstable. We have a commonality and a feeling of worth. We respect each other. We don't act violently without reason. That is the human condition. because we fall so perfectly in the middle, seemingly miraculously, I have high hopes that our species will be unique out there. We are lucky to be this unique already.


And in my honest opinion, there is only another 200 to 300 years worth of technology left to invent before we can only advance what we have already, having invented everything possible.

Originally posted by redzi0n
Perhaps they have learnt to tap into the fabric of time and space itself. Perhaps they understand that Hyperspace is not a place but a state of being and can instantaneously go anywhere in the universe merely by thinking it?

There is a rule about space. if you have a warp ship, you have a time machine. Because a warp ship is a time machine.

Humanitys problem is we see technological advancement as a linear thing, when really, its an exponential process.

Look at moores law for example.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Information technology is advancing at an exponential scale.
and this is where we will see the ability to make leaps and bounds in our understanding of the universe the faster and better simulations and tests you can run, the faster we will progress, and we always build tomorrows tech with the new stuff we invent today.

reply to post by VonDoomen



I see this every day. I am continually amazed at the speed with
which technology advances. I simply cannot keep up with all the
innovation in software, computers, cell phones, and on the net.

If we don't annihilate ourselves, the coming century is going to
be an exciting one to live thru.

In the last century we went from believing man couldn't fly, to
something like this....





...and to the moon...Imagine where we'll be in a century.
Guessing where we'll be in 100,000 years is an impossible but
interesting question.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by rival]

reply to post by rival


Awesome vid thanks for that ,i,m going out to shed to make some wings and jump off the roof.

reply to post by VonDoomen


Well as I said, it's unstable. We are more likely to see a species in space that DOES advance linearly. We forget, imagination and creativity are what allow our exponential technological growth, but we developed them AFTER intelligence.

reply to post by Gorman91


I respect your opinion but I will have to disagree.

The times we live in now are the most dangerous times we will have UNTIL we become a space faring civilization. It is very important that we ZIP thru this stage as fast as possible, because right now is the most probable time that we will destroy all of humanity, and be left with nothing, as we do not a backup for ourselves in outter space.

the longer we stay in the frame of mind, the higher the chance of us killing ourselves or more importantly, being killed by a natural event, Volcanoes or a extremely huge cosmic impact, ect. Remember from fight club, on a long enough timeline, the chance of survival becomes 0 for anything.

the only linear advancement we see is in biological growth, and even thats not fully true.

As we learned in highschool biology, evolution seems to work two ways.
We get random genetic mutations every now and then, but we also get HUGE leaps and bounds occasionally in evolution, for example, the cambrian explosion.

also, 100 million years of advancement would be beyond the scope of what your even able to imagine. Id be hard pressed to believe thered be much left to do after that amount of time.

All of our assumptions about their technology and culture are limited by our own human imagination which itself is limited by our environment. For example there could be an atom that does not exist within our view of the universe, however for an alien civilisation it is the key to their technology.

reply to post by VonDoomen


Well yea. That's why I really don't see technological growth continuing after another 300 years for us.

Besides that, unfortunately recent thoughts prove that your chances of survival, while a bit higher as a space fearing civilization, are still just as low as a type 0 civilization. It's not until the galactic scale, a type 3 civilization, that you become immortal.

This is because of things like antimatter. Basically, if you had a colonial revolt and a terrorist state on it, and it became rouge, it could easily use antimatter bombs to essentially blow up earth. And likewise, once we see their bombs, we will undoubtedly fire back, destroying both colony and Earth.

As you said, even a million years of growth is unimaginable. Weapons would be just as unimaginable in their destructive power.

Anything ranging from gluon bombs that release gluons and force molecules to merge, making an entire planet into lead and irradiated molecules, to antimatter bombs, which simply erase the matter from existence, converting it into gamma photons.

So. Because our civilization is so unstable, it is highly likely that only species which BIOLOGICALLY cannot advance as fast as us are more predominate out there, by their simply instinctively more stable natures.

Without imagination and creativity, a species advances linearly. Taking millions of years for something that would take us a decade. This is good, because it is more stable and careful. Those societies would have brains like crows and Neanderthals. Animals that, over time, developed skills that they know by nature, evolved into codes in their brain. As opposed to humans, which are born blank slates that need to be taught new things by example, but can also imagine new things from what they know already.

Thus, it is more likely that a civilization out there is slow and steady, as opposed to us, which are quick and unstable.


As to our species, if we do not kill ourselves off or provoke a war that kills us off from others, then we will reach the maximum development of technology and knowledge is some 300 or less years. After that, we can only improve what we have already. After that, we'll have to travel to new universes with new knowledge and laws in order to learn new things.

It's not that I am biased to only things that I know. As you saw from my gluon bomb explanation I can imagine things quite out there, beyond most people's understanding. I can explain how to build a warp engine with today's technology, or use tesla-like resonance technology to generate antimatter. or combine different building blocks to get "in betweens" of antimatter and matter.

I know a lot. And yet still. i really don't see technology going beyond 300 years for new things. Another few hundred to maximize their perfections. Then we must change our very biological make up to know and make up more.

reply to post by Gorman91


I would argue we have more than 300 years worth of advancement.

Even just by looking at moores law, our IT should be topping out at 1000-2000 years.

the upper computational limit of processing has been theorized to be somewhere between 1^95-1^99 CPS. But that would require 99.9% of the matter in the universe to be organized in a manner that allows it to take part in meaningul computation.

What i really want to know is, with 99.9% of the matter available for processing, what questions would we be asking/processing?

Reminds me of what Sagan said.

"They may have unimaginable chemistries, shapes, sizes, colors, appendages and opinions. We are not requiring that they follow the particular route that led to the evolution of humans. There may be many different evolutionary pathways, each unlikely, but the sum of the number of pathways to intelligence may nevertheless be quite substantial.”

reply to post by VonDoomen


Well that's the point. At a certain point you do not need that much computing power. Computers will be as smart as the entire computing ability of the human species by 2050 or before. With that, you are no longer growing exponentially. You are just going straight up. Because if a single man can be as good as da Vinci, imagine a computer as good as 6 billion da Vinci.

Don't just use the math. Use common sense too. You probably only need ten da Vincis to basically know everything relevant to mankind within a life time.

At a certain point, you do not need more processing power.

We only have 300 years worth of technology left to discover. 1000 years from now we will no longer be researching. Likelihood is there won't be a human species in existence to be doing the research. We would have ascend by then to something above what we are now. Not evolution. Just a release from what we are as carbon based life forms. What that will be God only knows.

We've gone from paper air planes with an engine on them in 1903 to being able to make warp engines in 2010. By 2080 we will have the galaxy at our finger tips. By 2110, We will be in another galaxy. Can you honestly even imagine the amount of knowledge by 2300? We will be beyond mankind.