Charles Darwin was mentally ill

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Physical illness refers to physical shortcomings. Mental illness refers to mental/intellectual shortcomings.

This is not true. Mental illness does NOT mean that a person has mental shortcomings. It has been shown time and time again that mentally ill people are as intellectually functioning as the general population. There are people with clinical depression who are absolutely BRILLIANT! This has been illustrated many times in this thread, but is ignored.

There are MANY types of mental illness, but it does NOT refer to mental retardation or insanity.

reply to post by Skyfloating


The way I see it Darwin did exactly what God would have wanted. He spent his life doing something he loved and when the data he acquired threw into question everything he believed he decided that he would rather be truthful and report his findings then lie and never publish anything, or worse yet and report false findings that supported his previous worldview. If being a good Christian is doing something you hate and deluding yourself so you don't have to change your beliefs, then yes Darwin was a bad Christian. However, what I was taught is that God wants us to do what we love and to be truthful, especially to ourselves.

I would like to point out that William James, the greatest psychologist to ever live, went through a similar crisis of faith when he found that there was no mind, only a brain. He too went through a similar bout with depression. So, doesn't it seem like these men are becoming depressed because they are so religious, yet their findings don't coincide with what they've been taught. Their results aren't being driven by their depression, their depression is being caused by their results.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

He couldnt have been too religious considering he viewed Theology as a waste of time and proposed man is descendant not from angelic beings but from animals.

What?? Not many people think that humans are decended from angelic beings. I believe Genesis says God created man after he created the animals. Where do angels come into it?
As I have already mentioned, Darwin hated religous fights, and he abstained from them. So where did he say theology was a waste of time?

Whatever the case may be, read Richard Dawkins latest book "The Greatest Show on Earth - Evidence for Evolution" and you`ll see that atheists are very fond of Darwin. Why? Because to them Evolution "explains the origins of life without there being a need for God".

Ok. And as I also explained in my post that Darwin would of despised having his work used as a religious weapon. He believe in evolution, and he believed in God. The only change he made was he stopped going to church. And become agnostic and would of believed in intelligent design.

Evolution isn't atheism. Evolution is an entire field of science. It is not a religous belief that was created to combat religion.Adn there are many christians who believe in evolution. I fail to see how atheists supporting evolution discredits Darwin's beliefs.

Originally posted by nixie_nox

He couldnt have been too religious considering he viewed Theology as a waste of time and proposed man is descendant not from angelic beings but from animals.

Actually the idea that humans descended from angels is a rather "new age" idea. It has gained a foothold over the last 25 years or so.

Originally posted by Skyfloating


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@Riley: Physical illness refers to physical shortcomings. Mental illness refers to mental/intellectual shortcomings. Hope that clarifies things

Physical shortcomings? I know people of all physical disabilities that can do amazing things. I watched a wheelchair basketball game. Having to sit and throw a basketball from the ground takes an amazing amount of skill and arm strength. I would never want to be punched by one of those guys.
I met a guy who was born with no arms. He played the piano beautifully with his feet.

it means that they are different from the cut paste world they live in is all.
This sounds pretty close to bigotry.

Mental illness means that a person's mind operates from societal norms.


In some tribes having down's syndrome means that you were personally touched by God because people with down's are loving and happy.

Mental illness is more of an emotional state then an intellectual one.

And I think you are confusing mental illness with mental disabilities.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Mental illness refers to mental/intellectual shortcomings. Hope that clarifies things

Mental illness does not refer to intellectual shortcomings or disability. Those are two completely different things.

What is Intellectual Disability?
Intellectual disability is a developmental disorder affecting about one per cent of the population, where people have significantly more difficulty than others in understanding concepts and solving problems. It is not a mental illness.

The international definition for intellectual disability has three criteria:

- Significant limitations in intelligence (classified as an IQ level of 70 or below).

- Significant limitations in the skills needed to live and work in the community including difficulties with communication, self-care, social skills, safety and self-direction.

- These limitations in intelligence and living skills are evident in the developmental period (ie before the person is aged 18 years).


What is Mental Illness?

Mental illness affects about twenty per cent of the population and is a general term, referring to a group of illnesses causing a major disruption to a person's behaviour, emotions or thinking which lasts a period of time from a few weeks or months to years. These episodes can come and go in a person's life. It is not intellectual disability.
The exact causes of mental illness are unclear but there are several contributing factors that have been identified as predisposing people towards developing a mental illness. These can include the following:

- Chemical imbalances in the brain

- Family history of mental illness

- Stress

- Drug and alcohol abuse

- Psychosocial factors such as poor physical health, trauma and abuses.

A classification system is used to distinguish one type of illness from another. Some common mental illnesses are depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Source

To disregard Darwin's theories because he suffered from mental illness does not make sense at all to me. I guess I don't have to say that I disagree very strongly with the OP of this thread. But I say it anyway.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by nixie_nox

He couldnt have been too religious considering he viewed Theology as a waste of time and proposed man is descendant not from angelic beings but from animals.

Actually the idea that humans descended from angels is a rather "new age" idea. It has gained a foothold over the last 25 years or so.


Ok, but that wouldn't of been a concept that would of existed during Darwin's time.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Skyfloating, Darwin was very religious. Him

Alright then.

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@Riley: Physical illness refers to physical shortcomings. Mental illness refers to mental/intellectual shortcomings. Hope that clarifies things

Well thankyou, you really have proven that you know NOTHING about mental illness. If someone has depression it does not effect their intelligence.. their IQ does not suddenly drop to vegetable status. You claimed you had "hard facts" yet you have provided NOTHING. Where are the medical links that support your assertions? In fact mental illness can sometimes incease intellectual productivity.. especially if someone has mania or ADD. When people have mania their minds work faster and they are able to do more calculations in a shorter period of time than your average person. Not only do they think clearer and faster but work faster as well.

Do you even know what mania is? It's part of a depression disorder called bipolar.. weren't you the one claiming Darwin had depression..?

Thats just one mental illness.. there are many others I could list that have positive effects on intelligence (aspergers is a significant one) but I won't bother as you seem to want to believe that mentally ill equals stupid. Thats your perogative of course.. I just think it is a real shame that you want to wallow in ignorance rather than denying it.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Ok, but that wouldn't of been a concept that would of existed during Darwin's time.

Actually, that's false. John Dee believed that humans were descended from Angels. Long, long before Darwin. That is why when people talk about the New Age movement, it is always place in quotations, because there is nothing NEW about the "New Age" movement.

reply to post by riley


You are of course correct. Darwins mental illness has no bearing on his theory as long as others have tested said theory. If we are to accept the OP's assertion that being mentally ill means your theories cannot be correct then we should be ignoring Newton pretty quickly. Many have remarked that Newton showed classical signs of autism or more possibly aspergers. He used to lock himself away for weeks at a time trying to solve a problem. Intense (abnormal) concentration is associated with aspergers allowing them to solve problems whose solution may allude others.

To hammer home this point that mental illness does not mean you are unable to form quality theories and ideas and that it does not lower intelligence, i give you Grigory (Grisha) Perelman.

Gessen, on the basis of many incidents of Perelman’s prickliness, his long hair and fingernails and Rasputin-like appearance, and his often asocial behavior, suggests that he has Asperger’s syndrome, sometimes referred to as autism-lite. Quoting the psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, an expert in the field, she writes that people with Asperger’s have limited social skills, have trouble communicating, often speak oddly (their speech is characterized sometimes by jarring transitions, literal interpretations, or obliviousness to nuance), and frequently need help with the minutiae of everyday living and so are dependent on others, such as their mothers, as was the case with Perelman.

reply to post by riley


My views of what Depression, Mental Illness, Emotional Illness and Insanity are differ widely from contemporary school curricula or from what you may have experienced. That much should be obvious by now. This divergence of opinion from the mainstream I chose to express on a website that hosts views alternative to what is commonly held to be true.

I apologize if my views offend you. Please consider that there might be people in the world with other experiences than your own.

I do not share contemporary societies view of what is to be seen as "brilliant" and "genius".

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by riley

 

My views of what Depression, Mental Illness, Emotional Illness and Insanity are differ widely from contemporary school curricula or from what you may have experienced. That much should be obvious by now. This divergence of opinion from the mainstream I chose to express on a website that hosts views alternative to what is commonly held to be true.

I apologize if my views offend you. Please consider that there might be people in the world with other experiences than your own.

I do not share contemporary societies view of what is to be seen as "brilliant" and "genius".

So if someone develops a cure for cancer and they are bipolar you wouldn't consider that genius? What about a great composer, or artist, if they had severe depression but painted incredibly expressive beauty then would you not consider them a genius?

Please, to help us further in this discussion can you define genius as you see it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


So pretty much what you're saying is that you choose to ignore all the scientific literature and instead make up your own views based on what supports your world view. In other words you're applying non-scientific thinking to a field of science.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by sadwolf

 

Very true. He probably couldn't talk to most people. Hell, my IQ is only about 120-125 and I have a very hard time talking to most people.

Really? 120-125 is about normal for a student.

Im kind of tired of people who think they are better because they have higher IQ. Your emotional intelligence is most likely lower than normal, so you fail to relate to people who are different compared to yourself. Your conclusion from that is that they are stupid, because it cant be you considering your high IQ, can it...

The purpose of IQ tests seems to be to make high IQ people feel superior to others, and make low IQ people feel worthless. Funny. Its like measuring only one talent amongst hundreds...

I bet Darwin was a real boring guy.



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Copernicus]

What all religions and spiritual traditions have in common is that they say we are descendant from higher sources not visible to the physical eyes, not known to the material world.

Although incarnating on Earth causes some anmesia, through spiritual practice it is possible to perceive such worlds and realms.

The basic human condition is that there is a Conspiracy to keep people from perceiving spiritual realms. This is done through certain schooling, conditioning, chemicals and distraction.

In fact, education at school is one of the main pillars of this Conspiracy. Training spiritual ability has been replaced by a war between the false dichotomies of religious dogma vs. materialist-philosophy/atheism.

One can then choose whether to believe that life is the product of coincidence or the product of a wrathful bearded man. That is the "brilliant genius" that is being defended throughout. Of Course neither of these paradigms are even 1% close to any sort of reality.

The side-effects of getting closer to reality are an increase in general well-being and a mental and emotional state that is sound.

Being of unsound condition is a sign that reality is being abandoned.

This stuff is pretty basic spiritual tradition and contained in any religion be it abrahamic, pagan or far-eastern, Im surprised everyone here is so "outraged" by this supposedly "provocative" material

reply to post by Copernicus


And you raise a valid point. Emotional quota is perhaps more important to a human being than their measure of intelligence.

Edit to say: I fear most the man who is more socially aware than me. I care not for the numbers he can add in his head.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by LarryLove]

reply to post by Copernicus


Actually the IQ test was originally created by Alfred Binet of France to learn how to help special needs students cope with the school curriculum. This was originally created in the 19th century. It was later revised by Lewis Terman of Stanford in 1916. This is the Stanford-Binet Test which is still the gold standard IQ tests today. So, IQ has absolutely nothing to do with the Nazis, and was actually used to identify children who need extra help in school.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
So if someone develops a cure for cancer and they are bipolar you wouldn't consider that genius?

If anyone actually developed a cure for cancer, that would be genius, yes.

Tell me one proposition or discovery of Darwin you consider genius.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I havent read all your posts but this last one Im agreeing with 100%. Its obvious western society is very materialistic and shallow. People are always doing something, planning ahead, never staying in the moment. A lot of people I know dont like silence and need people and sounds around them at all times to feel comfortable. They are afraid to feel what they really feel.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Skyfloating


To question and bravely put forth an alternative view that has radically changed our belief sets. I think that is genius.