It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do Christians really worship the sun?

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:49 PM
link   
If we accept the stories of the Christian bible, then we can agree that much borrowing was done, but instead I would propose that the borrowing was from the pre Jewish Abraham religion of Mono - God Worship and not the other way around. Multiple old testiment sources show that there was a lot of forshadowing and prophecy connected with the fulfillment of Abrahams prophecy with Christ. It would then be an easy supposition that even the myths of the fertitility gods who die and come back to life in the spring could have been foretellings of gods birth and death and rebirth. Now if you are going to bring up the later stages of Christianity, then I must point out that the oldest manuscripts of the new testment we have found, which predate the Holy Roman Empire are pretty much true to the ones we read to day. Any big discrepancies would have shown up between those old ones and the new ones. So I just dont buy the arguement that the catholic church rewrote parts of the ible to appease the non-christians. I will say that the non-biblical practices of Catholic Church do indeed revolve around old Pagan customs, and yes that does include Christmas.

Over all I would just say that you cant just look at it from a nonchristian or christian view point. You need to see both sides because I believe the truth lies somewhere in between.

- Was




posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 02:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by illimey
Yeah. You're right.

I'm a Christian, and my faith is based on the Bible, which makes it abundantly clear that there is only one God (revelaed to us in three separate persons) and that worship of anyone or anything else is utterly sinful (i.e. disobedient to God). Of course, all Christians are dimwits and still insist on worshipping the sun.

Look - I find it VERY difficult to accept that you genuinely believe that Christians worship the sun. I think you are possibly being deliberately provocative.

But for the sake of (relative) harmony, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Therefore let me tell you with utmost seriousness and honesty -

YOU ARE WRONG.

Do you pick up a book about fishing, read it thoroughly, believe every word of it to be true, and then tell people you really think it's about knitting?

Deny ignorance.



Yea your right I guess i'm going through somethings. Basically sinking down to the level of the Zelots. Ok i'm threw. I think I should stay out of the religous section for a while. I get so worked up when I see people posting hateful and ingorant things so I guess I try to give them a piece of there own medicne. But really i'm done all i'm doing is dulling my auora and increasing my bad karma. I respect you limely. You seem more like a true christian than most of thoses zelots out there.



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 11:06 AM
link   


currant Pope DECIDED to make SUNDAY the Sabbath


actually i think you will find that it was Constantine that declared that all courts
and other" State Offices" were to be closed for a doy of rest on the " Venirable
Day of the Sun". the roman church up to that time had held to the Jewish Sabbath. at that point they changed to further distance themselves from the Jews, and to suck up to the emporer ( which IMO they have been doing ever since)



posted on Jun, 27 2004 @ 08:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Scat
I'm not Christian, I don't worship the sun, but I do talk to the moon because I think God chill's up there at night when he's bored.

I know that sounded sarcastic and off topic, but I'm actually serious.


Makes sense to me. I'm kind of a Christian. Sort of.
Like your Voltaire quote; it's one of my absolute favorites.



posted on Jun, 27 2004 @ 08:22 PM
link   
The argument is a crock. From the standpoint of an historian and anthropologist, so many errors are posted here that any reasonable response would require a novel-size book to correct them all.

Small wonder that Christians would even try to argue the points. I think that I detect some Christian haters herein.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:56 AM
link   
This is a very informative topic


I doubt that you can have an unchanged religion for 2,000 years. It is impossible. The Bible has been changed, pagan origins of some parts of christianity are irrefutable. It doesn't mean that Christ was not of divine origin, it just means that religion practiced today is a mix of many others.

Here is another example of mixing religions. In 15th century in Bosnia a religious group by the name of Bogomili lived between catholics in the west and orthodox christians in the east. It was a christian sect, one of many who were persecuted by the Pope and Inquisition. When Turks conquered Balkans, Bogomili converted to Islam. Some elements of their earlier beliefs stayed, so the Islam in Bosnia is different from the one that is practiced in arab countries. Among other things, Shariah does not exist as an official law in Bosnia, women do not wear head scarfs, magick is practiced widely in islamic comunity despite the fact that it is not allowed in Islam, etc, etc.

Islam was integrated in already existent religion the same way Christianity was íntegrated in already existent Paganism in Europe, and it contains both elements now.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 07:27 PM
link   
Quote: "Look - I find it VERY difficult to accept that you genuinely believe that Christians worship the sun."

Oh Really tell that to HOOR-RA - tell it to Apollo - Tell it to the SUN of God - the "Light & Life"!!!

Of-course there are 2 types of Christians in Existance - the Goats & the Sheeps!!!



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 01:32 PM
link   
Rock on Amadeus. That pretty much sums up what I've been trying to tell Christians down here in the bible belt for years. It's hard for people to accept when they've had blinders on their whole life.



"Ideas must evolve just as living organisms do. If they cannot evolve, they cannot grow. Therefore, we must water them with wisdom so that they can grow and produce new ideas."



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 02:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by 2012
The argument is a crock. From the standpoint of an historian and anthropologist, so many errors are posted here that any reasonable response would require a novel-size book to correct them all.

Small wonder that Christians would even try to argue the points. I think that I detect some Christian haters herein.



Why don't you point out some of the errors instead of just making a generalized statement. Not comment on them just point thme out.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "Look - I find it VERY difficult to accept that you genuinely believe that Christians worship the sun."

Oh Really tell that to HOOR-RA - tell it to Apollo - Tell it to the SUN of God - the "Light & Life"!!!

Of-course there are 2 types of Christians in Existance - the Goats & the Sheeps!!!


You are very cynical. Your trying to tell me that the meaning hoo- ra, The chant that the army makes is actually some pagen ritual in disguise? And the comment you made about goat and sheep is very intresting to. Since I live in D.C I know obout it being spades ans a start and that is the real reason planes can fly over the city. Please go into further detail please



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 04:19 PM
link   
No my friend I am talking about the Khemetic "GOD" HORUS - Son of the Goddess ISIS - RA is the Khemetic SUN GOD - there is a Combination (the Egyptians combined the attributes of thier Gods all the time)
Called HOOR-RA. Do you deny the status of Khemetic (as well as other PAGAN Cultures like the Greek & Persians) Religion/Culture in the hierarchy of "JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY"? He is another little Clue for you - the images of Madonna & Child "Baby Jesus" - are EXACTLY THE SAME (i.e. a latter period Hellenized reproduction of the same concept) as the Images of
ISIS & Child = Harpocrate (Hoor-Paar-Kraat) = Baby Horus!!!!



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 04:35 PM
link   
no christians do not worhship the sun. We worship God and Jesus the son of God (which is the same thing.)



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 08:01 PM
link   
This is why I dont believe in anything.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:16 AM
link   
Alright, I have a few objections for everyone who is trying to put forth all this evidence that Christianity is "sun god worship."

First of all, a lot of the "evidence" being offered in favor of this proposition is absolutely, 100% circumstantial. For example, somebody said that the reason most Christians worship on Sunday, rather than on the actual Sabbath day as far as the Old Testament is concerned (Saturday, as any halfway-knowledgeable Christian will readily admit), is that early Christians were trying to absorb pagan customs in order to attract non-Christians to participate in Christian worship. Did you ever think that the real reason for this could be that according to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday? In Christian theology, there are many parallels between the story of creation and the story of redemption, and the resurrection is seen as a sort of new Sabbath day, in a sense.

Somebody else cited the similarity of the English words "sun" and "son" as evidence that worship of Jesus Christ is really just a "cover" for sun god worship. Maybe it never occurred to this person (people?) that the first Christians, who wrote the New Testament and all, did not speak English? I don't speak any of the languages that the original versions of the New Testament books were written in, but I seriously doubt that this similarity exists in these languages, which are very different from English. Even if the words were similar in other languages, as I said before I think anyone would agree that it is entirely possible that this could just be a chance coincidence. In my personal opinion, the use of this kind of extremely shaky evidence (if it can really even be called "evidence") does more to damage the anti-Christian crowd's credibility than it does to help it. I just really don't understand what the similarity between "sun" and "son" has to do with anything. Am I missing something here?

Others have said that the fact that some (perhaps even most) Christian holidays fall on the same days as certain pagan holidays is evidence of all this sun god worship stuff. Almost all Christians know that this is a fact, but almost no Christians see it as damaging to their faith. Why, you may ask? Simple: There is no particular reason to have most Christian holidays on any specific day of the year, because the Gospels do not give exact dates for the events in Jesus' life. Further, some Christians (Catholics, for example) celebrate some holidays that do not have anything to do with a distinct event that happened on a particular day in history (All Saints Day, for example). Since there was no date required by history for these celebrations, Christian leaders figured that they might as well use them to replace traditional pagan celebrations. It may very well have been intended to serve sort of a symbolic purpose - as Christ replaced the old pagan gods, Christian holidays replaced the old pagan holidays by "taking over" if you will the days on which pagan celebrations were held. The possibility of some pagan customs that were not distinctively pagan by nature (in the sense that they were not in violation of Christian principles) being absorbed by the Christians does not mean that Christianity is just sun god worship under a different name. We use the same ceremony to swear in our President every 4 years in the U.S. Does that mean that we are swearing in the same President every 4 years? Of course not. In the same way, people can use similar or even identical rituals and such to worship Jesus that was used to worship a pagan sun god, and that does not necessarily mean that they are worshipping the same being.

If somebody can really give me some good answers as to how the evidence I mentioned above proves (or at least strongly supports) the proposition that Christianity is just disguised sun god worship, I will read and think about your point of view. However, I honestly think this is just evidence of how determined some people are to attack Christianity (and really just organized religion in general). It is like some people can take just about any piece of information and spin it in such a way that it makes Christianity look bad, never mind that there are other ways to interpret the same pieces of information that are equally reasonable (and in some cases more resaonable) that do not make Christianity or whatever the target religion is look bad, or maybe even make it seem more sensible. There is a fine line between questioning traditional beliefs and just presupposing that anything that involves tradition or authority figures must necessarily be some sort of conspiracy. I think the latter of the two is what a lot of people are doing in this thread. Thanks for reading this; I know it was pretty long, but I feel like the ovservations needed to be made...

-chrishack14

[edit on 22-7-2004 by chrishack14]

[edit on 22-7-2004 by chrishack14]



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mountain Man
Many pagan ideas have been incorporated into mainstream Christianity, many of them by the Catholic church.


The entire "Catholic" religion is based on about 2 dozen different earlier belief systems. For indeapth info check out:

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S.
HERETICS by myself
Suns of God by Acharya S.



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 03:57 PM
link   
Don't forget that Constantine was a worshipper of Mithras (born Dec 25th) and Sol Invictus (born December 25th); and so it was not by chance that the newly official Roman Catholic Church after 364 AD celebrated the Mass of Christ (OE. Christmas) on December 25th.

The Dying and Resurrection gods of the middle east were all associated with the SUN as was the Messiah of the Jews (see the verse in Malachi chapter 4 which Messianists interpreted as referring to the "Christ": THE SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WITH HEALING IN HIS WINGS SHALL ARISE)

Thus Messianism as eary as in the 1st century AD was tied up with Solar Worship (read e.g. the books that form part of I Enoch (250 BC to 100 BC) which is pseudopigraphically attributed to the legendary author Henoch who "wrote 365 books" and who lived "365 years", which are solar constructs

At one point in the Henochian Literature, (H)Enoch is "the Son of Man" and later "MetaTron" who stands before the Throne Altar of YHWH in Heaven, glowing with brightest angelic rays: thus Henoch is identified as THE SUN, as well as THE SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS as well as THE SON OF MAN, as well as METATRON as well as THE MESSIAH----all in relation to the SUN which dies and rises again not only daily but also annually, rising again on December 25th according to the pre-scientific ancients but on December 21st according to us "moderns").

So Messainism was already intimately tied up with the Solar Cults even before "Jeeezzzzuzz" was even thought of.


Do Christians Worship the Sun? Well, if they believe that R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean was "the Messiah" then they automatically took over all the "pore-existence solar" trappings of the Messiah of the Jews and smashed it on him.

They made "Jeeezuzzz" also wear some of the "pagan clothing" of the Cult of Sol Invictus ("The Unconquerable Sun" ) in the 4th century AD in order to solidify the "new authorised Saviour god" into the Greco-Roman Pantheon.

And if you deny the solar links with "Christian Messianist Imagery" you are deliberately closing your eyes to the facts.



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 05:30 PM
link   
I'm impressed with this topic and the responses
I have two points to consider from this topic:

1) To prove exactly when the "true" Sabbath is, as of today, wouldn't we (the people) need to know exactly where in the world or where on earth God was resting when he chose the Sabbath Day? For example; if he was in Jerusalem then we should consider that Jerusalem is 8 hours ahead. So, if it is Sabbath(Saturday) Day, 12AM Jerusalem time, then it is Friday 4PM Central time(is that correct?) If so, then the true Sabbath begins on Friday for those who are in a central time zone.

2) "What if"- applies here because the initial post could also be catergorised as a "what if" also- the sun IS God and christians/non-christians who worship this being called God, are actually denying him in his true energy form? Because the sun is in fact outside/apart from earth, the earth does revolve around the sun, which is symbolically the same as those who believe their lives revolve around God.

I think it was Thomas Crowne who wrote something about proving that the sun is God otherwise not possible(?) What about an alternative perspective of disproving the sun as God, Thomas? With God, is not anything and everything possible? Are you saying it is impossible for God to be the sun, descend part of his energy into human flesh to allow himself to walk with two legs on earth so that he himself may know what it is like to be his most prized creation? When God is mentioned in the bible, he is described much like the sun that shines on mankind and gives forth light and warmth. If ever he came down and showed himself in true form (energy, fire, heat) would we not be blinded and/or burned, just as we would if we came too close to the sun?

Any thoughts, comments?



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 01:41 AM
link   
ChrisHack - I find it funny when people in a certain Sect or Church of Christianity - think that their version of this Religion is the only one that exists. Read the latter post –
TWO DOZEN Different earlier belief systems - combined into one - in order to become the Official Religion of the New & Improved Roman Empire. So please speak for yourself & your "Mobile, Alabama" Version of "Christianity".



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 01:57 AM
link   
Quote: "Maybe it never occurred to this person (people?) that the first Christians, who wrote the New Testament and all, did not speak English?"

Yeah - No Duh. The Gospels & New Testament were written in Koine Greek.

I never said that I was Anti-Christian - you only perceive me to be so. I simply acknowledge that there are many Different Sects of Christianity that believe in different things. Perhaps you should too.



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 04:44 AM
link   
i have been a christian since i was two years old. and lol we have never worshiped the sun lol.. We worship the son of god not the sun of the universe (maybe you guys got confussed when you heard a christian say "we worship the son") and about the light (like when a holy person prays light shines on them or radiates from them.) Light is symbolic. Light is a symbol for good, pure, holy. just like darkness is a symbol for evil. has nothing to do with the son.




top topics



 
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join